What's the right boat for us?

[Stephan&Beth]

Happy Easter!

My wife and I are looking forward to a career break. Starting point is most likely (but not a must) the UK, route is to be determined, possibly underway. Target, this August/September. We've aquired the right licenses and brushed up on our sailing -- now the next step (and probably the most critical), finding the right boat that will take care of us.

So here is hoping you could point us into the right direction. We've been looking for about 6 months now with the occasional trip to Sweden (preferable would be a boat in the Suffolk area) and while we've been disappointed so far, we did get a fairly good idea of what we're looking for, so here it comes:

1) Blue-water/offshore sailing boat (protected cockpit, seakindly, can take a blow etc.). Overall, we'd like to be able to go off the beaten track.
2) 33-37 foot
3) GBP20k to GBP40k (incl. equipment, such as wind vane, solar panels/wind generator, GPS, plotter, SSB, DSC-VHF, either radar or AIS and tender, holding tank, life raft...). Due to the budget constraint, we're thinking about a boat that is already fully equiped with the right gear. This will be most likely in a boat inteded to go offshore.
5) Less than 2m draft.
6) Headroom of over 1.9m, at least around the galley so I can do my duties in comfort.
6) Younger than 1980.
7) Low(er) maintenance.

Any help, no matter what, is greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

 

[bluevelvet]

Hi if you check out Ebay there is currently a Grampian 34 that appears to have had every system on board renewed with quality fittings and most professionlly fitted. It would only require a wind vane and maybe a couple of heavy weather sails and your off. Great tough seaboat. worth checking out.

 

[RupertW]

A lot depends on whether your career break sends you to warm or cool places. A decent off grid heater, teak decks and battleship thick GRP would work for one climate whereas all would be pointless or painful ( teak! ) if doing Med or Caribbean or Pacific where a white plastic deck is far cooler, cockpit and bimini are designed for outdoor stern-to living and electrics are all around solar power and fridges.

Pretty much any modern boat can do well in horrible weather - perhaps Southern ocean sailing the exception.

 

[KellysEye]

>3) GBP20k to GBP40k (incl. equipment, such as wind vane, solar panels/wind generator, GPS, plotter, SSB, DSC-VHF, either radar or AIS and tender, holding tank, life raft...)

Unfortunatly it is unlikely you will get long distance cruising boat with all that kit at that price, the kit alone could cost around £15-20,000 our three KVA , 1,500 rpm generator, cost £8,000, our Hydrovane would cost £2,679, an Icom 802 SSB is £1,980, a liferaft is £600 to £800 and so on. In 2010 our 38 foot ketch with all that plus Inmarsat C and no solar panels went for £75,000.

 

[Old Thady]

How about this one? It seems mostly set up for long cruises (in cold water).
I have no connection with the seller.

http://yachts.apolloduck.ie/feature.phtml?id=458515

 

[doug748]

Try this for a sporty ride:

http://www.jryachts.com/boat-details?boatid=1258484

Enough cash left over to buy yourself the missing bits and pieces.

 

[Kelpie]

>3) GBP20k to GBP40k (incl. equipment, such as wind vane, solar panels/wind generator, GPS, plotter, SSB, DSC-VHF, either radar or AIS and tender, holding tank, life raft...)

Unfortunatly it is unlikely you will get long distance cruising boat with all that kit at that price, the kit alone could cost around £15-20,000 our three KVA , 1,500 rpm generator, cost £8,000, our Hydrovane would cost £2,679, an Icom 802 SSB is £1,980, a liferaft is £600 to £800 and so on. In 2010 our 38 foot ketch with all that plus Inmarsat C and no solar panels went for £75,000.

Or you can go all solar (£1/w) these days, have no genny and just use the engine when necessary, get a secondhand windvane (mine was under £500), or indeed a Hebridean kit for £600. AIS (receiver) can be for £5 using a TV dongle that plugs into a laptop.
Yes there are things where you have to spend the money, but plenty of places where you can compromise a bit too.

 

[KellysEye]

>Or you can go all solar (£1/w) these days, have no genny and just use the engine when necessary, get a secondhand windvane (mine was under £500), or indeed a Hebridean kit for £600. AIS (receiver) can be for £5 using a TV dongle that plugs into a laptop.
Yes there are things where you have to spend the money, but plenty of places where you can compromise a bit too.

I think it depends on what sort of sailing you do. The great majority of long distance boats have a Hydrovane that also acts as an emergency rudder. A generator is required if you sail somewhere really hot such as the southern Caribbean where we fitted an air conditioner and used the generator while at anchor. We also used the generator on passage for the 240v fridge and the 240v watermaker, 240v kit is industrial kit so much more reliable.

 

[RupertW]

Thread drift but is a Hydrovane really an emergency rudder? I can see how it would be great for a stiff or stuck rudder but if the rudder was actually gone would a boat be balanced enough without it for a Hydrovane to have any useful effect? I guess it depends on the boat but isn't an easy thing to test.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

Thread drift but is a Hydrovane really an emergency rudder? I can see how it would be great for a stiff or stuck rudder but if the rudder was actually gone would a boat be balanced enough without it for a Hydrovane to have any useful effect? I guess it depends on the boat but isn't an easy thing to test.

Considering that you set the ships rudder so effectively it becomes part of the keel playing no part in the steering of the boat, I accept that you can offset a little weather helm with it if you wish but the boat should effectively be trimmed neutral with the sails, the Hydrovane blade then steers the boat. You can also use the Hydrovane with a small linear auto helm to steer the boat if you wish. So yes it can steer the boat without recourse to the main rudder, not as effectively as the main rudder but it will work.

 

[RupertW]

Considering that you set the ships rudder so effectively it becomes part of the keel playing no part in the steering of the boat, I accept that you can offset a little weather helm with it if you wish but the boat should effectively be trimmed neutral with the sails, the Hydrovane blade then steers the boat. You can also use the Hydrovane with a small linear auto helm to steer the boat if you wish. So yes it can steer the boat without recourse to the main rudder, not as effectively as the main rudder but it will work.

Sorry, I must have phrased myself wrongly. I entirely get it where the rudder is present but fixed, however I have read a number of reports where the rudder is not present any more after failure and that has unbalanced the boat so much that sail balance, warp steering and all other methods have been useless. I wondered whether anybody knew if a Hydrovane could steer a boat with missing, not just stuck, rudder.

There is a practical side to it for me as I'm thinking about my next Atlantic trip in a year or two and what scenarios a Hydrovane would be better than a backup electronic autopilot. Obviously the lack of needing a power source is a great one.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

Sorry, I must have phrased myself wrongly. I entirely get it where the rudder is present but fixed, however I have read a number of reports where the rudder is not present any more after failure and that has unbalanced the boat so much that sail balance, warp steering and all other methods have been useless. I wondered whether anybody knew if a Hydrovane could steer a boat with missing, not just stuck, rudder.

There is a practical side to it for me as I'm thinking about my next Atlantic trip in a year or two and what scenarios a Hydrovane would be better than a backup electronic autopilot. Obviously the lack of needing a power source is a great one.

Maybe it depends on the characteristics of the boat, I admit to being long keel biased so perhaps a spade rudder has more influence when missing than one on a long keeled boat when it would probably be a bit more difficult to balance the boat.

 

[KellysEye]

>Thread drift but is a Hydrovane really an emergency rudder? I can see how it would be great for a stiff or stuck rudder but if the rudder was actually gone would a boat be balanced enough without it for a Hydrovane to have any useful effect? I guess it depends on the boat but isn't an easy thing to test.

To use a Hydrovane you lock the rudder in the centre then balance the sails so there is no lee or weather helm, effectively the rudder isn't there and the Hydrovane is steering. If the rudder is stuck at an angle you would need to rebalance the sails to allow for the ruddder load then the Hydrovane would be fine. If the rudder is gone it's the same as if it were not there and not being used as in the first example. So yes it is an ordinary and emergency rudder.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

>Thread drift but is a Hydrovane really an emergency rudder? I can see how it would be great for a stiff or stuck rudder but if the rudder was actually gone would a boat be balanced enough without it for a Hydrovane to have any useful effect? I guess it depends on the boat but isn't an easy thing to test.

To use a Hydrovane you lock the rudder in the centre then balance the sails so there is no lee or weather helm, effectively the rudder isn't there and the Hydrovane is steering. If the rudder is stuck at an angle you would need to rebalance the sails to allow for the ruddder load then the Hydrovane would be fine. If the rudder is gone it's the same as if it were not there and not being used as in the first example. So yes it is an ordinary and emergency rudder.

What you say is correct see above posts but I am just wondering about a boat with a spade rudder and fin keel and whether the hydrovane blade has sufficient area to stabilise the boat if the spade rudder was missing, they seem to be notoriously difficult to balance once the rudder has gone.

 

[Tranona]

What you say is correct see above posts but I am just wondering about a boat with a spade rudder and fin keel and whether the hydrovane blade has sufficient area to stabilise the boat if the spade rudder was missing, they seem to be notoriously difficult to balance once the rudder has gone.

Agree, especially with a high aspect ratio keel with little lateral area. The rudder represents a considerable proportion of the underwater profile and the balance of the boat relies heavily on the power of a large balanced spade rudder for trimming. Unlike long keel boats trim is very sensitive to small angles of rudder, so loss of rudder likely means the boat is all over the place.

 

[RupertW]

Agree, especially with a high aspect ratio keel with little lateral area. The rudder represents a considerable proportion of the underwater profile and the balance of the boat relies heavily on the power of a large balanced spade rudder for trimming. Unlike long keel boats trim is very sensitive to small angles of rudder, so loss of rudder likely means the boat is all over the place.

Yes, that is tending me towards backup electric autopilot rather than a Hydrovane to avoid some cost but mostly having all that scaffolding blocking my front door. But if there are any examples out there for people succeeding with Hydrovane after spade rudder loss that would be enlightening.

 

[KellysEye]

>What you say is correct see above posts but I am just wondering about a boat with a spade rudder and fin keel and whether the hydrovane blade has sufficient area to stabilise the boat if the spade rudder was missing, they seem to be notoriously difficult to balance once the rudder has gone.

A Hydrovane will work whether the rudder is missing on a boat with keel hung, skeg hung or spade rudder. We were on the ARC finish line when the boats crossing had winds 35 knots gusting 50 knots, there were two missing rudders and one broken one, all spade, they jury rigged the steering and arrived safely so it would seem losing the rudder does not affect balance enough to stop sailing.

Bear in mind a windvane is an extra crew member it steers all day and night, doesn't eat or drink or use electricity.

 

[Sybarite]

The two usual suggestions :

1) Try chartering if possible before buying any particular model.
2) Don't limit your search to the UK. There are many boats going very cheaply in France for instance.

 

[geem]

>What you say is correct see above posts but I am just wondering about a boat with a spade rudder and fin keel and whether the hydrovane blade has sufficient area to stabilise the boat if the spade rudder was missing, they seem to be notoriously difficult to balance once the rudder has gone.

We were on the ARC finish line when the boats crossing had winds 35 knots gusting 50 knots, there were two missing rudders and one broken one, all spade, they jury rigged the steering and arrived safely .

That information does suggest that the OP may want to consider a skeg hung rudder rather than a spade! Assuming that half the boats may have spade rudders in the ARC and the rest on skegs? Thats a hell of a failure rate

 

[rotrax]

SSB seems superfluous for the Med. Plenty of suitable craft around if you look within the budget, but dont count out a boat in good nick for the lack of one or two nice to haves-offer taking that into account.

Look at liferafts carefully-if it needs a service take that into account on the offer.