Whats the best stern anchor

[Refueler]

Sorry but I am now reading 'all excuses posts' ......

The fact of the matter is - people get used to a system that they like ... often following the prevailing trend around them. Fine - as they say : Whatever floats your boat.

But please can we dispense with the overly dramatic bits ? If thousands do it and as you suggest 'thousands come a croppa' - it would not be long before trend changed. But strangely - it hasn't. So doesn't that indicate that it works well ?
I cannot believe a Swede having spent a large part of his worldly to buy a boat is then going to risk it ...

The Swedish Archipelagos - East and West ... Finnish as well - are some of the most cruised islands and rocks - years and years of sailing / boating evolution gone into how people boat there. The systems used developed because of the location and its natural harbours.
When as example - you get into Stockholm Archipelago ..... the number of boats is amazing ... BUT you never feel in a crowd as with Solent. Despite the number - you can have an idyllic spot alone - or join in with others. They surely cannot all be wrong ??

 

[KAM]

Bows to or stern to against rocks its obvious once you see where you're mooring and absolutely crazy to risk your rudder. If you've got a long keel it's even more obvious.

 

[sailaboutvic]

In not saying It's wrong or its not done you photos prove people do it,
what I'm saying is for the safely of my partner and my boat, I won't be doing it especially when there a much safer way,
I don't need to make excuses belive me when I seen many boats damage which have moored too close on quays when they thinks all well and blow happen out of the blue , and that's on a Quay let along rocks that are projecting ,
it them who then are making excuses why it happen .

We for many years have use Rock to tie back to so it's not that we not experience in this type of mooring , I just not interested in being that close to step off onto them .
My question in the first please was genuine , I just wouldn't why people go bow in , I guess what the answer would be , but like to hear it from tho who been and seen it.
As I said no argument.

 

[sailaboutvic]

Bows to or stern to against rocks its obvious once you see where you're mooring and absolutely crazy to risk your rudder. If you've got a long keel it's even more obvious.

Hang on we not talking mooring to a rock, it's something we been doing many year over 30 we talking being that close to someone being able to step off to be able to tie off .
A wash from passing boat being that close will be enough to nice dent in your hull or maybe crew from these boats have long legs

 

[Refueler]

I was taking on diesel at a well known south coast marina .... when my boat was still in UK.

Guy with me was trying to decide between a few boats he'd seen as to which to buy. He was looking in the 35 - 38ft range new or near new.
While fueling - we watched a crew motor in a new sailboat 36ft - same as what my pal was considering. While berthing it - to hand over to new owner .... they 'bumped' the 'other pontoon' while going astern.

The ensuing panic was unbelievable ..... for a yard crew who do this every day ??? Why ? The sugar scoop joint had opened up and water was pouring in. Boat had all the extras such as shower for bathers etc. through transom .... and water was finding its way via the through transom inside the scoop.

Boat had to be moved quickly to slings and lifted out - to await 'Builders' to inspect and remedy.

Who needs rocks ?????

Just to end this tale ... my Pal was influenced by his girlfriend to buy same model boat ... basically they are built to 'look good' rather than quality.
I tried to steer him away and onto a much better 5yr old Jeanneau ... with all the gear ... about 20k less money ... But she was adamant.
2 yrs later when cockpit locker tops didn't close properly - warped, cabin gear failing ... all things that were known to plague this brand ... he tried to sell.

Sad story ....

 

[Refueler]

Alone or with others ....

Just to put something to 'rest' .......... it has to be remembered that Baltic is non tidal .... water level is wind / pressure related. Therefore rocks etc. only get wet occasionally and dry off quickly. They do not usually get slimy or slippery as the typical tidal racks of UK / other areas.

 

[KAM]

Any thoughts on bow fenders. Most people don't seem to use them. Some of the moorings here are equipped with tyres.

 

[sailaboutvic]

Alone or with others ....

Just to put something to 'rest' .......... it has to be remembered that Baltic is non tidal .... water level is wind / pressure related. Therefore rocks etc. only get wet occasionally and dry off quickly. They do not usually get slimy or slippery as the typical tidal racks of UK / other areas.

Nice photo, where your bow lines ?

 

[Refueler]

Nice photo, where your bow lines ?

The first photo is to 'rock hook' ... its an L shaped piece of steel that is pushed into a crack in the rock ... 'facing away' from the boat. Line is then shackled to it ... tension pulls the L into the rock crack. If you set with the L towards the boat - tension will pull it out. In that photo - I was going to set port and stbd bow lines - but as we were alone - not necessary ... one line was more than enough.

In the second - we have two lines ... one port, one stbd ... you can just make out the cleat for the port line. Photo was taken by my bow guy straight after he made fast and I am behind the mainsail in cockpit setting stern anchor tension more ...

 

[dunedin]

Sorry disagree we been cruising the Med for a good 35 years and stern too as always been the way to moor , most people who go bow in do it because there have no control how to go in reverse.
Personally if it's how you say it's not to bash rudder on the rocks , there no way we get the boat close enough without damaging the hull , add to that and I can't commit on yours or anyone else boat but to try and climb over the ss and the anchor then drop onto a rock or come to that a quay would just be asking for someone to hurt themself badly .

After your posting explain why , for sure we be dropping a bower and do what we been doing for many years , take lines ashore in a dinghy unless it's warm enough to swim lines ashore .

Well the Med is a big place so things may have progressed at different rates.

But when we chartered in Greece in 1996 the bows to mooring was part of the standard flotilla briefing - and 99% of boats we saw were moored that way.
And it was very notable rereading an old copy of Yachting Monthly (from around 1993) when the Editor was talking about “Med mooring”, it took me a while to realise that he was referring to bows to - and at that time thought this was so obvious that didn’t mention bows in, it was only later in the editorial that referred to using a plank to make getting ashore from the bows easier.

 

[sailaboutvic]

Well the Med is a big place so things may have progressed at different rates.

But when we chartered in Greece in 1996 the bows to mooring was part of the standard flotilla briefing - and 99% of boats we saw were moored that way.
And it was very notable rereading an old copy of Yachting Monthly (from around 1993) when the Editor was talking about “Med mooring”, it took me a while to realise that he was referring to bows to - and at that time thought this was so obvious that didn’t mention bows in, it was only later in the editorial that referred to using a plank to make getting ashore from the bows easier.

I took my first boat out to the Med in mid summer 1990 and although that was a long ago I remember spending three months in Greece before leaving the boat in a small yard near corfu port.
Each May after that year I would return to the Greece for four or five months before returning back home to work , I did that for about 8 years before decided I would move on board full time .
The flotilla fleet in them days where small compare to them these days and just like today flotilla most where novices sailor with very little or in some case no experience at all,
so yes it was easer to get people to drive their boat in then to get them to go stern too and then tow them out .
Even now you still see that happening with flotilla ,
the difference is there a flotilla crew ready there to help steady the boat and take lines and your mooring up to a stright Quay not some rock,
There no crew trying to get over push pits hoping to make it on to the Quay..
You also sew many boats with chuck out of their Bows too .
There use to be a lot of long keel boats in them days and they too use to go bow in basically because it was easier for them.
But most skippers where stern too. Me included , them days it was all free so we spend a lot of times on town quays .
So stern too mooring is something that's been going on for many years ,

I dont wish to keep this thread going in the wrong direction,
But if the only way to moor in the Baltic was bow too I wouldn't go there because it would not be safe in our boat at are ages to be climbing over Bows on rocks,( or any age come to that )
But as a experience sailor there no doubt in my mind we can safely tie back if need be onto rocks some thing we done for many years probably longer then some who post here have been sailing .
When we get to the Baltic we be able to judge the situation better and decided as, when and how to moor when we not at anchor.
Here in the Netherlands many of the club marinas have stages mooring in boxes so basically you go in between two pole and there be a stage ( long pontoon) in front so many here do go bow in , but in most cases it's a step up to the pontoon to get off , you can reach the pontoon a lot of the time by reaching out from the bow , but even so and it is much more difficult we still go stern in which surprise some people but looking over my shoulder and seeing how close I am to what ever I'm about to moor to I find better then trying to judge it from 11 metre away. Which leave my Co skipper to constantly on her job lasso the poles .

 

[Neeves]

Adding to the historic changes that have occurred since the 90's which may influence mooring practices.

We did not see this modification 30 years ago but now we have open transoms or transom with lift up or a removable section (excuse me if it now has a fancy name) that makes exiting from or through the transom easy for the more mature of our members. In them days you needed to be young and supple there was also a tiller specially located to be a hinderance. Today the wheel is further forward and possibly the rudder itself is located a bit further forward than 30 years ago. These changes make exiting from the stern so much easier today.

The main reason for the bow in is the inconvenience of the rudder location and the underwater seabed, which is natural and slopes in the Baltic unlike many harbour walls that oddly tend to be vertical.

Another factor

Some owners of yachts in the Baltic own or have sole private access to the island to which they secure and like your holiday cottage in Cornwall they have a shack, shed or palatial accomodation on their piece of heaven. Their yacht is the means to access their 'other' home. Like those who keep their yachts in a marina they want to be able to easily access their accomodation (maybe they are mature or have mature parents) and bow in is sensible (and their anchorage will have been equipped for their yacht, rings for shore lines.

But there is no need at all to follow their practices - just because they find it convenient to anchor as they do, and equip their yachts for that convenience there is no rule demanding others do the same. Anchoring off the bow is quite acceptable - though if you want to access the shore - you need a dinghy, SUP or ..... swim (no different to the Med...?)

You don't need a fancy roller and windlass at the transom to anchor bow in - their are many ways to skin a rabbit.....

It is an education realise some people have made major investment in their alternative ground tackle - which suggests mocking them is a sign of ignorance.











There are two lessons with my photos - I did not specifically choose these examples, but never saw a NG anchor - they were typical installations but interestingly Bruce (or copies) are the most common design for stern anchors - but maybe the chandlers nearby had a bargain on Bruce anchors....?


Earlier a member posted his picture of a bow ladder to access shore - this how you store them . Note the custom built piece of stainless tubing - to make exiting through the bow easy. Also note there is no bow anchor , no sign of a windlass and a rather puny roller - which I suspect is for 2 bow lines. At the point where a windlass might be located - what look look 2 horn cleats



There are many ways to anchor, don't be hide bound by bow anchors (another example is how anchoring solutions are different in Patagonia). Anchoring practices develop to meet local conditions.

Jonathan

 

[Refueler]

Some owners of yachts in the Baltic own or have sole private access to the island

Actually most islands are public access - the 'privacy' is achieved by common decency to not intrude.

"Excerpt from Cruising Assoc. guide to Swedish Cruising" :

One of the great advantages of cruising Scandinavia is the law called ?Allemansrätt? which states
that you may anchor or moor free of charge anywhere that is not actually a private landing stage or
garden, although it is considered rude to be close to a house. No official will arrive in a motorboat
demanding fees. This is one of the factors that keep marina charges down; one can always go and
anchor somewhere instead. And there are so many places to anchor. It would take several lifetimes
to find them all.
Allemansrätten does NOT give the right to cross over or spend time on grounds close to houses, to
walk across crops or other land which can be damaged, to moor alongside private jetties, to build
fires directly on rocks or stone outcrops, to allow dogs to run free, leave litter or to cross areas
designated as bird reserves.

 

[sailaboutvic]

Adding to the historic changes that have occurred since the 90's which may influence mooring practices.

We did not see this modification 30 years ago but now we have open transoms or transom with lift up or a removable section (excuse me if it now has a fancy name) that makes exiting from or through the transom easy for the more mature of our members. In them days you needed to be young and supple there was also a tiller specially located to be a hinderance. Today the wheel is further forward and possibly the rudder itself is located a bit further forward than 30 years ago. These changes make exiting from the stern so much easier today.

The main reason for the bow in is the inconvenience of the rudder location and the underwater seabed, which is natural and slopes in the Baltic unlike many harbour walls that oddly tend to be vertical.

Another factor

Some owners of yachts in the Baltic own or have sole private access to the island to which they secure and like your holiday cottage in Cornwall they have a shack, shed or palatial accomodation on their piece of heaven. Their yacht is the means to access their 'other' home. Like those who keep their yachts in a marina they want to be able to easily access their accomodation (maybe they are mature or have mature parents) and bow in is sensible (and their anchorage will have been equipped for their yacht, rings for shore lines.

But there is no need at all to follow their practices - just because they find it convenient to anchor as they do, and equip their yachts for that convenience there is no rule demanding others do the same. Anchoring off the bow is quite acceptable - though if you want to access the shore - you need a dinghy, SUP or ..... swim (no different to the Med...?)

You don't need a fancy roller and windlass at the transom to anchor bow in - their are many ways to skin a rabbit.....

It is an education realise some people have made major investment in their alternative ground tackle - which suggests mocking them is a sign of ignorance.
View attachment 140950

View attachment 140951


View attachment 140952

View attachment 140953

View attachment 140955

There are two lessons with my photos - I did not specifically choose these examples, but never saw a NG anchor - they were typical installations but interestingly Bruce (or copies) are the most common design for stern anchors - but maybe the chandlers nearby had a bargain on Bruce anchors....?


Earlier a member posted his picture of a bow ladder to access shore - this how you store them . Note the custom built piece of stainless tubing - to make exiting through the bow easy. Also note there is no bow anchor , no sign of a windlass and a rather puny roller - which I suspect is for 2 bow lines. At the point where a windlass might be located - what look look 2 horn cleats

View attachment 140954

There are many ways to anchor, don't be hide bound by bow anchors (another example is how anchoring solutions are different in Patagonia). Anchoring practices develop to meet local conditions.

Jonathan

Jonathan I think you find the windlass is in the locker , it's not unusual ?
There many boat I seen in the Netherlands where there don't store the anchor on the roller .
Before I replace mine on my Moody ( other boat ) it too was in the locker .
Although I would only ever put my anchor away if I was on a very long trip as in days non stop,
Last time was on a five day sail some years back now .

 

[johnalison]

I took my first boat out to the Med in mid summer 1990 and although that was a long ago I remember spending three months in Greece before leaving the boat in a small yard near corfu port.
Each May after that year I would return to the Greece for four or five months before returning back home to work , I did that for about 8 years before decided I would move on board full time .
The flotilla fleet in them days where small compare to them these days and just like today flotilla most where novices sailor with very little or in some case no experience at all,
so yes it was easer to get people to drive their boat in then to get them to go stern too and then tow them out .
Even now you still see that happening with flotilla ,
the difference is there a flotilla crew ready there to help steady the boat and take lines and your mooring up to a stright Quay not some rock,
There no crew trying to get over push pits hoping to make it on to the Quay..
You also sew many boats with chuck out of their Bows too .
There use to be a lot of long keel boats in them days and they too use to go bow in basically because it was easier for them.
But most skippers where stern too. Me included , them days it was all free so we spend a lot of times on town quays .
So stern too mooring is something that's been going on for many years ,

I dont wish to keep this thread going in the wrong direction,
But if the only way to moor in the Baltic was bow too I wouldn't go there because it would not be safe in our boat at are ages to be climbing over Bows on rocks,( or any age come to that )
But as a experience sailor there no doubt in my mind we can safely tie back if need be onto rocks some thing we done for many years probably longer then some who post here have been sailing .
When we get to the Baltic we be able to judge the situation better and decided as, when and how to moor when we not at anchor.
Here in the Netherlands many of the club marinas have stages mooring in boxes so basically you go in between two pole and there be a stage ( long pontoon) in front so many here do go bow in , but in most cases it's a step up to the pontoon to get off , you can reach the pontoon a lot of the time by reaching out from the bow , but even so and it is much more difficult we still go stern in which surprise some people but looking over my shoulder and seeing how close I am to what ever I'm about to moor to I find better then trying to judge it from 11 metre away. Which leave my Co skipper to constantly on her job lasso the poles .

I wouldn't make up your mind too much in advance of going to the Baltic but wait and see how you get on when you are there. We never got a bow ladder such as the nice one seen above but managed off the bow with either stepping on the anchor bar or adding a bucket or steps on the shore when flat. My suggestion would be that if you really don't want to get onto rocks off the bow is to moor bows-to for boat safety, and have a dinghy alongside which you can manhandle to the shore to disembark. I have never found that motoring off presents a significant risk of fouling because it would be usual to propel the boat astern simply by drawing in the stern line before engaging gear and keeping the line under tension.

For box moorings there are numerous ways of coping but with two of us we would usually take one stern line with a bowline each, from amidships if necessary, with bow and helm returning to their positions to complete the manoeuvre.

 

[sailaboutvic]

I wouldn't make up your mind too much in advance of going to the Baltic but wait and see how you get on when you are there. We never got a bow ladder such as the nice one seen above but managed off the bow with either stepping on the anchor bar or adding a bucket or steps on the shore when flat. My suggestion would be that if you really don't want to get onto rocks off the bow is to moor bows-to for boat safety, and have a dinghy alongside which you can manhandle to the shore to disembark. I have never found that motoring off presents a significant risk of fouling because it would be usual to propel the boat astern simply by drawing in the stern line before engaging gear and keeping the line under tension.

For box moorings there are numerous ways of coping but with two of us we would usually take one stern line with a bowline each, from amidships if necessary, with bow and helm returning to their positions to complete the manoeuvre.

Hi John
I'm not the less worried about the baltic , actually things posted here make us both smiles.
Going astren on to rock or mooring say to an old trees stump or what every else is done with ease.
When it's warn and a swim is in order , my other have loves swim, we just set the anchor just like any other time if we was going to free swing.
Then she would go over with light line once a shore the mooring line would be tied to the line that simple..
If there was a wind blowing us in a different direction its just a matter of reversing back while she take the slack till am close enough.
If she wasnt going to swim then the dinghy which is always kept inflated is dropped over the side and she just row ashore.
We would never end up that close to the shore/rocks/Quay anyway and always use the dinghy.
The only time we approached this different is if we was going onto qauy,
Then we go as close as we can for her to step ashore most of the time there normally someone to can throw a rope to if we can't get close enough to step off,
In any case it just be a case of having the dinghy side on the the stern to step into then onto the Quay.
Personally I would never put her or anyone in a position where they have to jump off the bow on a Quay let alone a rock
I been about for too long and seen enough broken arms and legs .

As for the box mooring the first couple was an experience I can tell you , one we did try and drive into with a cross wind , stern lines over the post no problem but the bow when off down wind before you could make a step , what save us was a line on the next berth .
Since then it's been reverse in .

 

[Neeves]

Jonathan I think you find the windlass is in the locker , it's not unusual ?
There many boat I seen in the Netherlands where there don't store the anchor on the roller .
Before I replace mine on my Moody ( other boat ) it too was in the locker .
Although I would only ever put my anchor away if I was on a very long trip as in days non stop,
Last time was on a five day sail some years back now .

You may well be right (I am often wrong ). But that bow roller does not look used - the polymer rollers and the steel rod do not look as if they have seen either chain nor anchor. The yacht is big enough you would not want to be removing the anchor from the bow roller very frequently - if ever. We take our anchor off the bow for long passages (but ours only weigh 8kg - its our weight fetish).

Many yachts we saw in the Baltic may have had a windlass and anchor at the bow - but neither was evident (so certainly not available for immediate use in an emergency) but what was evident and stunningly obvious on virtually every yacht was stern ground tackle. You simply would not invest in the money necessary (those 'stern' rollers themselves are either one off or limited production) nor would you be fitting same (cluttering up the transom) unless there is a real and frequent need. We take our anchor off the bow - and on our coast there is 1 single island between Sydney and Gabo Island, no rocks - In the Baltic archipelago there are islands ....... everywhere and where there are not islands there are rocks - a night mare - so less incentive for night passages - which are nothing to us.

The stern ground tackle and absence of visual bow tackle is - simply - stunning. The first one you see you look again, and again - its alien to everything you thought you knew. You accept the absence of an anchor on the bow - until you look at the other end and find all the tackle is there and obviously used.

So I can believe there is a windlass in the bow and an anchor - but I can also believe - its not used.


But as John says - don't get uptight - you can anchor off and dinghy ashore. You have a second rode and anchor - if you want and there are people to help with shore lines - you would be fine you have enough experience and lateral thinking to cope - or refuse the idea. None of it is obligatory.

I don't think Baltic sailors are better than you and many are obviously not better than you


On a different tack - I do wish that the ideas of anchoring bow in, use of shore lines (and in Australia) Med mooring, which is but a variant of Baltic mooring (or vice versa), were more widely accepted and then better use could be made of existing facilities.

Jonathan

 

[johnalison]

Hi John
I'm not the less worried about the baltic , actually things posted here make us both smiles.
Going astren on to rock or mooring say to an old trees stump or what every else is done with ease.
When it's warn and a swim is in order , my other have loves swim, we just set the anchor just like any other time if we was going to free swing.
Then she would go over with light line once a shore the mooring line would be tied to the line that simple..
If there was a wind blowing us in a different direction its just a matter of reversing back while she take the slack till am close enough.
If she wasnt going to swim then the dinghy which is always kept inflated is dropped over the side and she just row ashore.
We would never end up that close to the shore/rocks/Quay anyway and always use the dinghy.
The only time we approached this different is if we was going onto qauy,
Then we go as close as we can for her to step ashore most of the time there normally someone to can throw a rope to if we can't get close enough to step off,
In any case it just be a case of having the dinghy side on the the stern to step into then onto the Quay.
Personally I would never put her or anyone in a position where they have to jump off the bow on a Quay let alone a rock
I been about for too long and seen enough broken arms and legs .

As for the box mooring the first couple was an experience I can tell you , one we did try and drive into with a cross wind , stern lines over the post no problem but the bow when off down wind before you could make a step , what save us was a line on the next berth .
Since then it's been reverse in .

I don’t particularly like the idea of reversing into a box for various reasons, but I can see that it can help with low pontoons. Although some pontoons are low in the Baltic, many or most are at deck height or even above, and the bow is the obvious place to step from. A cross wind can be a challenge. The easiest solution is to choose a box with a boat in the next downwind box, already fendered. If this is not possible, I found the best solution was to park between the posts, sort out the lines and fenders, and only then move forward into the box, a system that also works for very wide boxes that you occasionally meet.

 

[sailaboutvic]

@jonathan..
What you mean I might be right as I offen tell Christine I'm always right ?.
This is just my own personal thing,
If you look at Refurler photo no offence Refueler , I would never have my bow or stern that close to anything hard,
I'm not joking I seen so many boat smash because wind picked up an a anchor asnt held or worst someone caught the anchor .
Lefkas Quay 1999 five boats got badly damage in one day .
The Medican storm during day time a fleet of sailing holiday boat all got damage on a Quay.
There are just two examples.
Even when we are on a Quay the passerelle keeps us well away or we just don't go onto it .
Nice sunny day , light winds all be fine , ballox,
It's when we don't expect it that it happens.

 

[sailaboutvic]

@KAM sorry mate I seen to have diffed your thread .
So back to stern anchors .
Mine for many years have been a fortress F23 ,
When every we used it on the stern to keep us facing waves or to use it as a V bow its never let us down once set .