Whats the best stern anchor

[Refueler]

So here my question , why bow first , ( too shallow for the rudder )?

If we gone stern first once we gone in 1000s times , we planning to cruise the Baltic soon which is why am asking .
Unless there a very good reason we be looking at dropping the bower and going in astern .
Lines ashore easily done from a dinghy ,
And if you had to make a quick escape , just dump the lines .
I guess if your a very shallow boat and want to step off bow first does the job.

We used some marinas lately in the Netherlands where there have box berth with poles ,
We get looked at strangely when we reverse in ,
Nearly everyone goes bow first.

Thousands cannot be wrong ??

It really is best ... the cut away of bow on most boats allows you to get really close ... whereas stern first leaves you significantly off from shore. Why have to use dinghy if bow to means you are step on / step off ?

When I first brought my boat here ... I was thinking stern first ... but soon realised locals had it sorted.

 

[vyv_cox]

Thousands cannot be wrong ??

It really is best ... the cut away of bow on most boats allows you to get really close ... whereas stern first leaves you significantly off from shore. Why have to use dinghy if bow to means you are step on / step off ?

When I first brought my boat here ... I was thinking stern first ... but soon realised locals had it sorted.

Vic's experience is the same as mine - years and years in the Mediterranean. When we first arrived there, like most Brits, we. berthed bows-to but soon realised that all the advantage is being stern-to. I would find it very difficult to revert to bows-to now without a big investment in equipment

 

[Refueler]

Vic's experience is the same as mine - years and years in the Mediterranean. When we first arrived there, like most Brits, we. berthed bows-to but soon realised that all the advantage is being stern-to. I would find it very difficult to revert to bows-to now without a big investment in equipment

My reply was based on his going to Baltic and that Bows to prevails .... not implying anything about Med practices.

Don't understand why you need "big investment in equipment" .... its only a kedge anchor with bit of rope and maybe short bit of chain.

 

[KAM]

.... its only a kedge anchor with bit of rope and maybe short bit of chain.

That's what we thought but once it was all out we had no way of retrieving it. We really needed a decent roller and a way to run the warp to a winch. The boat next to us had a very fancy hinged roller with a winch and remote. He was able to adjust his anchor warp whilst he was at the bow tieing on and adjusting his lines. Very slick.

 

[Refueler]

I'm just picturing this failure to retrieve kedge ...

I've had one occasion when I found my kedge hard to lift ...

I had let go bow lines ... pulling steady on kedge rode and boat moving astern ... usually I can feel kedge break free as boat gets close to vertical ... but this time not.
OK - so I let boat hang on it and swing so I had a clear path ahead, made rode as short as possible and fast ... motored her out bu pulling in a different direction to what it had set.

 

[vyv_cox]

My reply was based on his going to Baltic and that Bows to prevails .... not implying anything about Med practices.

Don't understand why you need "big investment in equipment" .... its only a kedge anchor with bit of rope and maybe short bit of chain.

Our pulpit has a big overhang, so the first action would be to modify it. Rope warp on a stern line is disastrous in a blow, so we would need to substitute chain, which means adding a windlass and stowage for the chain.

 

[sailaboutvic]

Thousands cannot be wrong ??

It really is best ... the cut away of bow on most boats allows you to get really close ... whereas stern first leaves you significantly off from shore. Why have to use dinghy if bow to means you are step on / step off ?

When I first brought my boat here ... I was thinking stern first ... but soon realised locals had it sorted.

We would have quite a problem to step off our bow , it's bad enough if you trying to do it on a pontoon bow in and stepping over the SS and anchor , let alone an rocks.
That be asking for trouble in our case anyway.

Stern too for us is no problem ,
Which is why I asked the question .
If it's not because of depth then stern too every time , if it is because of depth then we wouldn't be able to get close enough before we touch anyway.
I'm sure there reason why some find it more convenient to go bow in but for us with many many year going stern it's a no effect at all.
If need be jump in the dinghy or as we use to do in the Med swim if far better to get lines ashore .

So if I may ask the question again .
Why do so many go bow too ?
Is it because of depth?

 

[sailaboutvic]

I'm just picturing this failure to retrieve kedge ...

I've had one occasion when I found my kedge hard to lift ...

I had let go bow lines ... pulling steady on kedge rode and boat moving astern ... usually I can feel kedge break free as boat gets close to vertical ... but this time not.
OK - so I let boat hang on it and swing so I had a clear path ahead, made rode as short as possible and fast ... motored her out bu pulling in a different direction to what it had set.

There another problem with bow first ,
A boat stern too could just slowly motor over the anchor to break it free.
If your bow too you can't really do that without a possibility getting you rode around your prop .
If you had enough room you could walk the rode to the bow , swing the bow around then you could drive over and break it free.
But that all going to depend on the circumstances, say you in a blow and need to get out quickly you not going to be able to do it .

 

[sailaboutvic]

As johnalson says, yes it’s go avoid the rudder bashing the rocks.

And until,recently bows to was the norm in the Med also - as there were often rocks / dislodged stones near the quaysides

If you look round a Baltic harbour, often fewer than 5% of boats have a bow anchor on deck, and often 80% don’t even have a roller bow fitting

Sorry disagree we been cruising the Med for a good 35 years and stern too as always been the way to moor , most people who go bow in do it because there have no control how to go in reverse.
Personally if it's how you say it's not to bash rudder on the rocks , there no way we get the boat close enough without damaging the hull , add to that and I can't commit on yours or anyone else boat but to try and climb over the ss and the anchor then drop onto a rock or come to that a quay would just be asking for someone to hurt themself badly .

After your posting explain why , for sure we be dropping a bower and do what we been doing for many years , take lines ashore in a dinghy unless it's warm enough to swim lines ashore .

 

[sailaboutvic]

Yes, too shallow for the rudder. More often than not the rocks slope down into the water and you wouldn’t want your rudder anywhere near them. One thing I had not worked out for myself was the fact that you can improve your shore fixture by laying out two, or even three lines. Mooring bows to shore was something we only did a few times but it was satisfying to get right, though a certain degree of athleticism was required if there was no-one ashore to take your line, even with a split pulpit.

Thanks for that John , now after what you posted and a few others there no doubt we be dropping our bower and going stern too , keeping well away from any obstruction and once anchor set take lines ashore , if that can't be done then we be looking at free swinging and using the dinghy .
Probably with a low bow and someone keeping a very close watch for anything sticking out , going bow in is poresable but with an hight bow and all the obstacles on our bow there no way .

 

[BabaYaga]

[QUOTE="sailaboutvic, post: 8021954, member: 6128"

So if I may ask the question again .
Why do so many go bow too ?
Is it because of depth?
[/QUOTE]

It is perfectly acceptable and increasingly common for boats up here to go stern-to against a pontoon, a jetty or a harbour wall – and this regardless of if your are using your own bow anchor, a mooring buoy, piles or a lazy line at the other end. Especially on boats with modern design features like open transoms, sugar scope sterns etc.
However, if you are mooring against a rock in a natural harbour you cannot do so ,because of the risk of harming your rudder against the sloping bottom. At least not if your want to be close enough to step ashore.
Traditionally, going out into the archipelagos and overnighting in natural harbours has been and still is what most boat owners in Norway, parts of Sweden and Finland like to do. As I mentioned earlier, the definition of a natural harbour is that you can step ashore (otherwise it is just an anchorage, a sheltered bay or inlet).
Because of the abundance of sheltered spots where you actually can step ashore from your boat (remember, no or minimal tidal range) came the inventions to make doing so easier, such as the step through pulpit, the bow ladder etc.
So it is really the natural features and circumstances up here that has formed the convention to moor bow-to.

 

[sailaboutvic]

Can I just say , I be very interestef to see boats with high top side going bow first and seeing crew climbing over the PP onto rocks ,
I'm guess it's probably low motor boats and sailing boats that do this , for the sake of me I can't see why anyone want to go bow in them circumstances, one miss judgment and a lump of your hull gone.

 

[sailaboutvic]

[QUOTE="sailaboutvic, post: 8021954, member: 6128"

So if I may ask the question again .
Why do so many go bow too ?
Is it because of depth?

It is perfectly acceptable and increasingly common for boats up here to go stern-to against a pontoon, a jetty or a harbour wall – and this regardless of if your are using your own bow anchor, a mooring buoy, piles or a lazy line at the other end. Especially on boats with modern design features like open transoms, sugar scope sterns etc.
However, if you are mooring against a rock in a natural harbour you cannot do so ,because of the risk of harming your rudder against the sloping bottom. At least not if your want to be close enough to step ashore.
Traditionally, going out into the archipelagos and overnighting in natural harbours has been and still is what most boat owners in Norway, parts of Sweden and Finland like to do. As I mentioned earlier, the definition of a natural harbour is that you can step ashore (otherwise it is just an anchorage, a sheltered bay or inlet).
Because of the abundance of sheltered spots where you actually can step ashore from your boat (remember, no or minimal tidal range) came the inventions to make doing so easier, such as the step through pulpit, the bow ladder etc.
So it is really the natural features and circumstances up here that has formed the convention to moor bow-to.
[/QUOTE]
Surely you done need to be that close to a rock to step off , have people not heard of dinghy or don't they have dinghy in Norway or Sweden? .
Best way to get caught our and get damage is being that close .

 

[sailaboutvic]

OK everyone thanks for answering my question .
No need to keep replying ,
Just to add if the Passerelle won't reach to walk off then I'm too close for comfort.

 

[BabaYaga]

have people not heard of dinghy or don't they have dinghy in Norway or Sweden? .

Dinghies, what are those?

 

[Neeves]

Getting back to the OPs question.

The comments of the difficulty, real or otherwise, of using a small anchor as a stern anchor in a Baltic moor are not relevant - you would not use a small anchor nor a dinghy anchor in a Baltic moor. Ideally you want the same size anchor as you would have used on the bow - because the stern anchor is 'simply' replacing the bow anchor (which you will not normally be using (for the reasons stated a multitude of times). As also stated many yacht in the Baltic have no bow tackles (at all) but presumably may carry second rode and anchor. Your stern anchor want to be the same weight as you would use for your bow - it is being under the same conditions of wind. If your yacht used a 15kg bow anchor, think of a 15kg stern anchor. What you choose, design, is similar to what you would have had on the bow - think NG. You may also need to use bow lines, long - so you need to have those lines - in case. Many 'anchorage' have rings set in the rocks for this application. As also mentioned many local yachts, to the Baltic, have a windlass or winch in the transom locker and fold up 'bow rollers (presumably called stern rollers).

Retrieving a stern anchor is no more difficult than a bow anchor - except you retrieve in reverse. Once you are over your anchor you are well away from the shore and turning the yacht round is not that difficult.

For visitors to the Baltic this is all 'foreign' but then if they venture to the Med - everything would be foreign to them there.

Anchoring off the bow is simply one of a number of ways to secure your yacht overnight. Think Patagonia where shore lines are 'de rigour'.

Jonathan

 

[Refueler]

Can I just say , I be very interestef to see boats with high top side going bow first and seeing crew climbing over the PP onto rocks ,
I'm guess it's probably low motor boats and sailing boats that do this , for the sake of me I can't see why anyone want to go bow in them circumstances, one miss judgment and a lump of your hull gone.

Small to large boats of many different designs / bow heights etc do the Bow to mooring. You asked why and explanation has been given .. what you do is your choice, no one is arguing against.

Another coming in ... not so small

I know that UK setup boats can find this bow to a bit awkward ... even my small 25ftr with its typical UK bow is not best for it ... but having initially kept to stern to - I soon changed to bow to ....

Large Bav's ... HR's ..... Jeaneau's ..... you name it ... they all do it.

In the case of : "one miss judgment and a lump of your hull gone" ..... really I think that's an exaggeration. I'd rather misjudge and touch bow to rock than my rudder / prop / sugar scoop etc. A bow is far more capable of withstanding such with little damage, unless really silly.

 

[Refueler]

Getting back to the OPs question.

The comments of the difficulty, real or otherwise, of using a small anchor as a stern anchor in a Baltic moor are not relevant - you would not use a small anchor nor a dinghy anchor in a Baltic moor. Ideally you want the same size anchor as you would have used on the bow - because the stern anchor is 'simply' replacing the bow anchor (which you will not normally be using (for the reasons stated a multitude of times). As also stated many yacht in the Baltic have no bow tackles (at all) but presumably may carry second rode and anchor. Your stern anchor want to be the same weight as you would use for your bow - it is being under the same conditions of wind. If your yacht used a 15kg bow anchor, think of a 15kg stern anchor. What you choose, design, is similar to what you would have had on the bow - think NG. You may also need to use bow lines, long - so you need to have those lines - in case. Many 'anchorage' have rings set in the rocks for this application. As also mentioned many local yachts, to the Baltic, have a windlass or winch in the transom locker and fold up 'bow rollers (presumably called stern rollers).

Retrieving a stern anchor is no more difficult than a bow anchor - except you retrieve in reverse. Once you are over your anchor you are well away from the shore and turning the yacht round is not that difficult.

For visitors to the Baltic this is all 'foreign' but then if they venture to the Med - everything would be foreign to them there.

Anchoring off the bow is simply one of a number of ways to secure your yacht overnight. Think Patagonia where shore lines are 'de rigour'.

Jonathan

Sorry but a long post that has wrong assumptions.

The size / weight of stern anchor used by many in Baltic is NOT same as what would be a Bow anchor. Unless they have the handling gear installed - as seen on many MoBo's ...
The fact is that in the event of weather and risk - then it would be prudent to NOT moor. Second that most locations are well sheltered and it would have to be pretty bad to make it uncomfortable.

I have been bow to a couple of times and noted boats leaving ... when weather looks to be rising .. some moving into more sheltered location - others into more open water.

 

[sailaboutvic]

I don't wish To argue, if that's the way it's done by boats, then all well and good , but me personally won't be doing it that way ,
Having a wife/partner/ crewmember judging how quickly a rock may be getting close under water to the hull is bad enough add to that I'm then asking them to climb over all the objects on the bow , drop 1 and a half metres onto some rock possibility slippy while the boat still moving ( boat never stop moving) with a rope in hand to tie off .
Not for me, and for sure i wont be asking my other half to do so , I can guess what her reply be.
Over my years of cruising I can't remember how many time we seen bow and stern smash to bit where they moor to a Quay that close to step off , just the other week a boat sunk when during the night a blow came in and there anchor dragged leaving them on to a concrete Quay smacking great holes before they could move them away .

If I seen it once I seen it a dozen times , people dropping a stern anchor expecting it to set and hold them off some lump of concrete as they get close to step off only to find it didn't and there bow person hanging half on half off while they desperately trying to get out of the mess.

You you say 1000 do it and I'm sure your right the question is how many of them 1000 sooner or later come unstuck.

Here in the Netherlands they use boxes with poles at one end and eyes on the staging very few have any type of pontoons on the side , so the idea is you go in between the pole put a rope over to hold you off the staging ,
All sound great and 1000s go bow in , in the few months we been here we seen so many come unstuck ,
Ropes goes on pole and before any one have a chance to get over the SS anchor the bow is blown goes off and now there I between the poles and the next berth and unless help come quickly there in trouble.
Where I found going stern in once a lines put over the pole and handed to me still at the wheel my partner can step off and finish the job , the bow had no chance of getting blown off and I still got full control of the situation.
Not just that but being close to the staging I can clearly see how close I am and how close I need to be for her to step off safely, where the other way around am 11 metres away and it not possible to judge how close I would be and rely on someone else to tell me.

As I said I'm not arguing 1000 may to it but then I seen thousands dropping all their chain on their anchor or not dropping enough chain not setting their anchor .
Should I do because they do it ? I Think not

 

[sailaboutvic]

Getting back to the OPs question.

The comments of the difficulty, real or otherwise, of using a small anchor as a stern anchor in a Baltic moor are not relevant - you would not use a small anchor nor a dinghy anchor in a Baltic moor. Ideally you want the same size anchor as you would have used on the bow - because the stern anchor is 'simply' replacing the bow anchor (which you will not normally be using (for the reasons stated a multitude of times). As also stated many yacht in the Baltic have no bow tackles (at all) but presumably may carry second rode and anchor. Your stern anchor want to be the same weight as you would use for your bow - it is being under the same conditions of wind. If your yacht used a 15kg bow anchor, think of a 15kg stern anchor. What you choose, design, is similar to what you would have had on the bow - think NG. You may also need to use bow lines, long - so you need to have those lines - in case. Many 'anchorage' have rings set in the rocks for this application. As also mentioned many local yachts, to the Baltic, have a windlass or winch in the transom locker and fold up 'bow rollers (presumably called stern rollers).

Retrieving a stern anchor is no more difficult than a bow anchor - except you retrieve in reverse. Once you are over your anchor you are well away from the shore and turning the yacht round is not that difficult.

For visitors to the Baltic this is all 'foreign' but then if they venture to the Med - everything would be foreign to them there.

Anchoring off the bow is simply one of a number of ways to secure your yacht overnight. Think Patagonia where shore lines are 'de rigour'.

Jonathan

I've not sailed the Baltic yet but am expecting too .

Agree I wouldnt be relieing on some small make shift anchor off my stern to hold me off
if I was cruising any where long term and plain to go bow in long term, as you righly suggested an anchor of the same calabria as my bow anchor and not just that but tackle too.
This would mean adding a windless and some kind of anchor roller , now it started to get costly.
Personally I rather keep well off anything that's going to damage my boat and rock Concrete can do a nice job of doing that, even stern too I always use a passerelle and at time when there chance of wash or a blow we pull well odd and use the dinghy from the stern , for us it's not a problem .