Whats a fair price for replacing the PSS shaft seal wear parts on my boat?

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Do PSS offer "on water" lip seal" replacement?
Because that would have been a good solution in this case.

Not as far as I'm aware and that is where the Tides seal does indeed score. The PSS seal is also a good system IMHO (unlike the Deep Sea system) and I dont really want to chuck away perfectly good components of the PSS system for a brand new Tides system especially as I probably will have sold the boat before the seals need changing again and I wont be able to take advantage of the Tides in water seal change capability!

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Motor over to Cala d'Or, have the work done and motor back. You could save money and enjoy the trip.

If France continues to ban us Brits, it'll be a toss up between Italy and Majorca for August

 

[Clancy Moped]

If France continues to ban us Brits, it'll be a toss up between Italy and Majorca for August

If it's Mallorca beers will be had!

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

I sort of guessed at £2k having had a similar job done a few years back. If we were allowed into France I have an excellent mechanic mate who would almost certainly do it easily within my guess amount plus a few £00 for travelling.

Thanks ljs. The problem would be him working on the boat in a yard. The French usually dont accept that because it would be an opportunity to rip off the customer lost!

 

[doug748]

Normally I would agree but here is a video from PSS which claims that the steel and carbon components (rings) should last 15-20,000 hrs which is a lot less than the 1400hrs on my boat!

But in the same video they recommend changing these wear parts every 6-8 yrs and given that I've owned the boat for 6yrs now and I've never changed these and I'd bet that the previous owner didnt change them either, its certainly time these were changed. These are the items for which I was quoted £155+VAT in the UK

Up to you, but a few hundred extra quid, on a job that costs a few thousand in labour, it's worth thinking about. There is also these minor points:

- By giving them the full new seal you avoid possible problems from mis-assembly when refurbishing and also avoid the yard supplied parts mark up.
- Note the water feed spigot has been beefed up on new models and is now brass or stainless steel rather than Nylon.
- There is a small chance that the leak has been caused by a scored Rotor or Carbon Flange in which case the complete replacement is useful insurance.
- If you sell in the near future new components catch the eye more than refurbishments
- Stick the old ones on Ebay and probably get your money back.

I replaced my bellows after 15 years and was able to go over the old on the bench with a powerful glass. I could detect no cracking or deterioration at all and the length was identical with the new.
The new bellows did appear to be more substantial though so it's worth doing - but your bellows will probably not choose this summer to let you down and (without further evidence) it's doubtful it would have been the source of the detected leaks

 

[Eyore]

Do the job yourself and see how outrageous the quote for the work is.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Up to you, but a few hundred extra quid, on a job that costs a few thousand in labour, it's worth thinking about. There is also these minor points:

Agree but I'm not going to pay €3500 for labour because thats a total rip off. If the yard insists that's their best quote then I'll go elsewhere and if I get a more reasonable labour quote then I'll probably replace the whole system

The problem with the SoF is that you get ripped off for everything from the labour to the parts to the add ons that always appear on the invoice and sometimes I feel like taking a stand

 

[John100156]

I had two complete Tides lip seals fitted to my P45 18m ago, the work undertaken by our local marine engineers in Sant Carles - Tallers Cornet. Two engineers for one day and one for the next when the boat was launched to bleed the lines.

I must say they did a great job. I like the PSS seals that were fitted to my old F43, I just like the way they work, but went for lip-seals for the reason Mike stated, spare seal on shaft. I asked for an estimate, they said if all goes well 2,500 euros, it went very well so they only charged me 2,252.40 including IVA in the end, and I had to fight the engineer to take a tip! Invoice as follows:

 

[superchip]

I had two complete Tides lip seals fitted to my P45 18m ago, the work undertaken by our local marine engineers in Sant Carles - Tallers Cornet. Two engineers for one day and one for the next when the boat was launched to bleed the lines.

I must say they did a great job. I like the PSS seals that were fitted to my old F43, I just like the way they work, but went for lip-seals for the reason Mike stated, spare seal on shaft. I asked for an estimate, they said if all goes well 2,500 euros, it went very well so they only charged me 2,252.40 including IVA in the end, and I had to fight the engineer to take a tip! Invoice as follows:

View attachment 116571

 

[jrudge]

Well thats an interesting comment. We had booked a flight to Nice on 20 June for a 9 day holiday but as you know France has just placed severe restrictions on visitors from the UK. To get round that I'm planning to get the boat moved across the border into Italy and for us to fly into an Italian airport and avoid France altogether. So if I passed on the quotation I have got for changing the seals and if they did start to leak badly whilst we were on the boat we wouldnt be too far from a good yard

Why not just get the boat moved and do all the work in Italy

 

[superchip]

i also had my tides lip seals replaced in sant carles and one lasted about eight hours before failing again on the return trip from Majorca .
the lip seal overheated through lack of water fed from the engine . if you replace the seals its probably worth checking the water flow to the seal which i think should be about eleven litres a minute at tick over.

 

[John100156]

Yep, that's why their engineer attended on day-2 when we were launched, to thoroughly bleed and check flow rates before releasing from slings. Did you use TC to do the works? We have been out several times since and all OK.

I also had both engines chemically flushed, new anodes, new impellers and fitted new sea water pumps so flows should all be OK, engine temps equal and stable last run out, so hopefully all should be good...

 

[vas]

I just completed replacing the stock 45yo (at a guess) stuffing box with PSS. Did a bit of searching/studying before going for PSS and I have to admit I didn't like tides seals for my old boat as there's a lip sealing the lot running against the shaft and in my case the stbrd shaft is not perfectly smooth at that area. PO was v.good with the hammer and would hit anything that didn't go according to plan, I guess instead of replacing/adding material in the stuffing box he hammered the hell out of it in order to tighten it further and stop the leaks... Well his aiming probably wasnt that good as there were a few dozen marks on the shaft!

Anyway, PSS are expensive (relatively)
Having them on already is a bonus, basically pull the shaft back (don't have to remove prop unless it's really tight down there with everything assembled!) undo the coupling thing, remove the old lot, fit the new lot, tighten the circlips, refit the lot, preload the belows, done. Shouldn't be really more than a day to do that.

HOWEVER, you asked to replace the cutless bearings as well! Why, do they actually need replacing? Price for spareparts is eyewatering! and yes to do that you have to remove props/shafts the lot. but tbh for 1400 or whatever hours it's unlikely they need replacing (imho)

If you check PSS literature, they do mention that there may be debris between the carbon plate and the ss ring, if so compress the belows a bit, pass a cloth in between to clean and run the boat a bit more to reseat the lot.
I'm a cheapskate, but for these prices I'd decline enjoy the boat as is (ok, if you are allowed to do so!), do the cleaning trick, check exactly where the leak is and organise this for next liftout.

V.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Why not just get the boat moved and do all the work in Italy

That thought has certainly crossed my mind. I've asked them to look at their prices again. If they dont budge then I might scrub the lift out in France altogether but I dont want to as I would prefer a completely sorted boat before our trip

 

[jrudge]

That thought has certainly crossed my mind. I've asked them to look at their prices again. If they dont budge then I might scrub the lift out in France altogether but I dont want to as I would prefer a completely sorted boat before our trip

It still can be. The boat by definition has to get to Italy before you do. Sublet your berth for the summer and never go back given renewal cost. Also there is space in Cala dor at present.

 

[petem]

I think this thread just reinforcing my view that keeping Andiamo in the SofF would really pee me off. It reminds me of skiing in Courchavel, world class pistes but spoiled by having to pay €25 for half a bagette and a small beer in a piste side restautrant.

 

[julians]

I think this thread just reinforcing my view that keeping Andiamo in the SofF would really pee me off. It reminds me of skiing in Courchavel, world class pistes but spoiled by having to pay €25 for half a bagette and a small beer in a piste side restautrant.

not just courcheval - any french ski resort - feels like you're being bent over at every opportunity.

Not sure if this (the PSS seal replacement price above) is just a one off, or whether indicative of all sof marine industry, but it does sound several orders of magnitude worse than even balearics pricing.

 

[Hurricane]

Also there is space in Cala dor at present.

Ooooo - that would dig up old wounds!!!

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

I have agreed with the yard that an independent person (a local skipper I know and trust) is present to inspect the PSS seal components and witness the play in the cutless bearings before any parts are replaced. They have also agreed that their labour cost estimate was 'cautious' so maybe I'll get away with paying less.

Meanwhile I have been sent this photo of one of the existing seals. I'm assuming that the white deposits are salt deposits from leaks? On this basis I do agree now also that both bearings should at least be inspected and replaced if necessary

 

[petem]

I had two complete Tides lip seals fitted to my P45 18m ago, the work undertaken by our local marine engineers in Sant Carles - Tallers Cornet. Two engineers for one day and one for the next when the boat was launched to bleed the lines.

I must say they did a great job. I like the PSS seals that were fitted to my old F43, I just like the way they work, but went for lip-seals for the reason Mike stated, spare seal on shaft. I asked for an estimate, they said if all goes well 2,500 euros, it went very well so they only charged me 2,252.40 including IVA in the end, and I had to fight the engineer to take a tip! Invoice as follows:

View attachment 116571

I was genuinely very pleased with the work that TC did on the boat when we were there. They weren't the quickest but they were very competent with excellent workshop facilities and reasonable rates. They were also happy to fit bits (like hull fittings) that I supplied. They'd also come at short notice for the "engine won't start" scenarios. They even fixed my little outboard!