What Trailer Sailor

[yachtorion]

This weekend I've viewed a Tonic 23 and a Red Fox 200E. I'm looking for a fun boat that 1 or 2 people can stay on for a few days and that I can bring home for maintenance.

The Tonic seems like an amazing boat but it won't dry out without legs and I'm unsure about it's sailing performance and easy launch/recover-ability. The Red Fox could be a great boat - I think I could live with the accommodation given a cockpit tent - but this one, the only available, needs some work and I'm put off by the plywood decks and lockers.

The next obvious choice would be a Liberty... about the same money, decent sailor, Dylan of this parish loves his Minstrel which is the same boat... but the experience of my Hurley, which was open plan and the berth was the saloon benches, has left me very keen on having separate sleeping and living spaces.

Horizon 21 - rare - one available condition unknown - cheap - but will the bilge keels kill any hope of creek crawling and make trailor sailor launching impossible? Would a trolley/trailer system help?

Want to creek crawl. Separate heads preferred. Circa 10k absolute max...

Could anyone suggest a boat?

 

[Nina Lucia]

Etap 23,
We have trailed our to Croatia last summer and four of us ( two adults and two young teenagers) stayed for five week and did almost 1000 NM, we have decided to live her there so we can go this summer again....

 

[ghostlymoron]

http://yachts.apolloduck.co.uk/list...axl=640.08&ymin=&ymax=&type=1&sort=0&limit=20
Take your pick. You need to decide what type of sailing you intend to do and what draft you want. For extreme creek crawling you need a lifting keel that can reduce it to 1' or less but may not dry out as stably as a twin keel. My leisure 20 has a draft of 2' so can access most creeks. Not suitable for you though - too cheap, too short, no seperate heads.

 

[aquaplane]

Wood decks would put me right off, but I think that's just me, or folk like me. I really liked the look of the Red Fox, open interior and flush bottom has a big appeal, I thought they were all GRP.

You are looking at a 23' boat, non of them are going to recover like a dinghy, but the difference between them shouldn't be orders of magnitude. A stub keel will be a bit harder. A bilge keeler may be twice as hard to recover than a flush bottom boat, but that's not too hard with good docking bars. Launching you just run it in till it floats, that's the easy bit, but you knew that.

Being doubt full about the Tonic's sailing performance and considering a Liberty/Minstrel doesn't equate to me, but I may underestimate the Hunters performance.

Separate sleeping and sitting areas is a big ask too but I may be thinking 20' not 23' so good luck on that, I think the Tonic may have an aft cabin?

You have an interesting dilemma.

 

[aquaplane]

It's a big compromise on the trailing front, but not if it's just twice a year to take home and back,

Separate head.

Should do OK in a blow.

A bit suspect on the split living/sleeping areas though unless you have a dwarf for crew to use the forecabin, but the quarter berths are useable.

The Tonic looks nicer to me, and I have a Centaur.

A Westerly Paegent 23'.

 

[yachtorion]

Etap 23,
We have trailed our to Croatia last summer and four of us ( two adults and two young teenagers) stayed for five week and did almost 1000 NM, we have decided to live her there so we can go this summer again....

Thanks - I'll have a look!

http://yachts.apolloduck.co.uk/list...axl=640.08&ymin=&ymax=&type=1&sort=0&limit=20
Take your pick. You need to decide what type of sailing you intend to do and what draft you want. For extreme creek crawling you need a lifting keel that can reduce it to 1' or less but may not dry out as stably as a twin keel. My leisure 20 has a draft of 2' so can access most creeks. Not suitable for you though - too cheap, too short, no seperate heads.

Not massively extreme... but I love River Sailing. Raced dinghys on the Ouse in York.

You are looking at a 23' boat, non of them are going to recover like a dinghy, but the difference between them shouldn't be orders of magnitude. A stub keel will be a bit harder. A bilge keeler may be twice as hard to recover than a flush bottom boat, but that's not too hard with good docking bars. Launching you just run it in till it floats, that's the easy bit, but you knew that.

Thanks, that's more to ponder. I won't rule out the Horizon 21 completely then, otherwise it appeals despite the lack of seperate head.

Being doubt full about the Tonic's sailing performance and considering a Liberty/Minstrel doesn't equate to me, but I may underestimate the Hunters performance.

I have a photo on the wall of a Min doing the Round the Island in what looks like fairly strong conditions - she looks in her element. Very seaworthy hull...

Separate sleeping and sitting areas is a big ask too but I may be thinking 20' not 23' so good luck on that, I think the Tonic may have an aft cabin?

You have an interesting dilemma.

Yes it does - and the Fox and Horizon both offer curtainoffable v-berths, even if in the Horizon it also has the loo.

Yeah I'm feeling genuinely stumped on this one. At least there is no hurry.

 

[yachtorion]

I've added the Leisure 20 to the list and contacted a seller of one for more info. The Etap 23 looks like an amazing boat and I love the Paegeant - but I think both might be a little heavy. Planned tow car is probably a cheapy old Freelander (if I'm feeling romantic) or Grand Vitara (if feeling sensible) - either way around a 2000kg tow limit including trailer and gear... (I'm about to return my current lease car, don't use it much, want something cheap).

 

[yachtorion]

I think I'm going to rule out the tonic. She won't dry out, looks difficult to launch, rig and recover, and the best of the three currently on the market that I've found two are a little rough and one is massively over expensive with the wrong engine and no trailer. Plus she has a reputation for not standing up well to her canvas and I enjoy driving a boat hard.

Lovely boat for the right people - not for me.

 

[Tam Lin]

Have you looked at the YouTube videos that the Foxwell family make about sailing their Red Fox? It would give you an idea about what they are like. They sometimes post on here.

 

[langstonelayabout]

Or take a look at a lift keel Pegasus 700. Tidy boat, go for the fractional rig, easy to step/un step the mast and in your budget.

 

[doug748]

Have you looked at the YouTube videos that the Foxwell family make about sailing their Red Fox? It would give you an idea about what they are like. They sometimes post on here.

Good point. Here is a link:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLsrC0qy2tqsNUQTM6mLcR7Dm75QPfybjI

 

[yachtorion]

Or take a look at a lift keel Pegasus 700. Tidy boat, go for the fractional rig, easy to step/un step the mast and in your budget.

Have added the Pegasus to the list - looks a brilliant little boat could be ideal.

 

[PeteCooper]

I reckon a Beneteau First 235 would be ideal for you - a more modern design than the Pandora.

 

[yachtorion]

I reckon a Beneteau First 235 would be ideal for you - a more modern design than the Pandora.

Do look great but over budget and only seem to have fin or wing keels?

 

[mrming]

I reckon a Beneteau First 235 would be ideal for you - a more modern design than the Pandora.

I have one of these. It's very much a trail-able yacht rather than a pure trailer sailer but for bringing home once a year that would be fine.

It fits a lot of the OPs requirements including a seperate head and aft cabin. The boat has mini-transat genes and as such it's very wide at the back with a nice big cockpit. It has a swing keel and sits upright fine in our soft mud, but would need legs to dry out on a hard bottom. Draft is 1.75m with the keel down, and 0.75m with keel and rudder up. Ours has remote controls fitted for the outboard which is very nice (I believe a lot of them came with this).

The 235 is however a very powerful boat so it may not fit from that point of view - the sail plan is big and if the OP wanted to single hand it in a breeze it would require reefing early.

The flip side of this is that the boat is very fast indeed. It's actually only 6.5m on deck (the 23.5 includes pulpit & rudder) but thanks to the long waterline you'll be cruising past much larger boats on a regular basis. The high freeboard makes it feel like you're on a much bigger boat, and it's very dry as a result. There's very little at this size with a cruising interior that can touch it for performance.

We've had ours out in some very testing weather and she has always behaved impeccably, but you do need to either reduce sail or stack the rail as the wind gets up.

Do look great but over budget and only seem to have fin or wing keels?

The 235 website is run from the US where the boat only came in fin or wing keel form. In Europe however it was only available in swing or fin keel. 600 were built in Europe and the vast majority of them have the swing keel like ours.

 

[PeteCooper]

Do look great but over budget and only seem to have fin or wing keels?

There is reference to a swing keel version - and advertised prices are flexible

This site has a mountain of info : http://www.beneteau235.com/index.htm

 

[roblpm]

Parker 21?

http://www.parkerseal.org.uk/forsale/cloud9.aspx

http://www.parkerseal.org.uk/about/parker21.aspx

Draws 10" with the keel up.

 

[Simonpk]

If you like the Pageant but have concerns over the weight, her baby sister is the Warwick or W21, which uses the same hull but more modern interior.

Also, just to add more confusion, one model I considered was the Jaguar 23 & there's one on eBay at the moment.


Si

 

[langstonelayabout]

If you like the Pageant but have concerns over the weight, her baby sister is the Warwick or W21, which uses the same hull but more modern interior.

Also, just to add more confusion, one model I considered was the Jaguar 23 & there's one on eBay at the moment.


Si

You and me both. I was gazumped at a price far higher than this (and I'm still peeved I missed it).

That Jag 23 is without a motor and (like everyone else here would say) should be surveyed. If you are in a 'high theft' area make sure the outboard you use is small enough to lift off when you leave the boat. Don't leave it on the back of your boat, locked or not.

There were two types of lifting keel Jag 23: one had a straight up/down keel leaving a flush bottom (like this one) and the other had the keel pivot up under the hull, effectively leaving a stub keel that would sink into soft mud.

If you are considering a Jag 23 make sure you get the one with the keel that suits your intended use.

 

[TSB240]

Put this on your list.

I know its in Scotland but having gone through your purchasing specification it fits the bill. We owned one for a number of years and in many ways wish we never sold.

We enjoyed cruising very fast and safe all around the Irish sea and North Wales and holidays in south Brittany with storage back home in winter.

http://yachts.apolloduck.co.uk/feature.phtml?id=416847



Not many built but a superb " Trailable Yacht"

NB doesn't need legs to dry out!

Steve