What is it about yacht insurers?

[LittleSister]

My insurer, GJW Direct was taken over by Ripe a few months ago. I was only with GJW because they'd taken over whoever I was with before, who in turn had taken over my insurer before that. (Y Insurance was one of those in that chain, but I can't now remember which number link they were.) So this has happened numerous times with my current run of insurers, and I'd had my insurers taken over on occasion further back in the past.

I have occasionally had gaps between boats, so when going from no boat to having one I've shopped around on price, cover, reputation etc., but apart from that can only remember choosing to change insurers once in decades of boat ownership. That was when my insurer back in the 90s refused to cover me for sailing my Hurley 22 to Brittany, saying it was too small (despite H 22s having raced across the Atlantic!), so I changed to Pantanaeus, who would. They were a bit pricey but easy to deal with - you could actually speak to someone who knew about insurance, rather than a call centre (i think they also had fewer restrictions on single-handing - but who later decided they would no longer insure boats as cheap as mine , so I had to change again.

What is it about the yacht insurance market that leads to such (increasingly?) frequent changes of ownership and branding?

 

[Poignard]

"What is it about the yacht insurance market that leads to such (increasingly?) frequent changes of ownership and branding?"

Perhaps it is the same courtesy as that exhibited by vultures feasting on a corpse

Each may dip his beak in turn.

 

[ylop]

Life insurance and pensions seems to similarly change hands and brands regularly. Fairly sure motor and home insurance do too - but they often keep the old brand to keep up the pretence of choice!

But you are remembering back to the 90s… non of my house, car, boat, life insurers were opperating under the same name (if at all) in 1995!

 

[LittleSister]

But you are remembering back to the 90s… non of my house, car, boat, life insurers were opperating under the same name (if at all) in 1995!

Yes, you're right.

Come to think of it, I'm struggling to identify any commercial entity, in any field - insurance, boats, cars or whatever - where the ownership and/or the branding, has not changed in recent decades.

As that acute observer of modern life, Monty Python, so succinctly put it, 'It's accountancy that makes the world go round.'!

Still, the process does seem particularly rapid, or perhaps just observable, in yacht insurance.

 

[Sailing steve]

The "insurer" is only the front man - no more than a broker.

All they do is take a commission from the premium you pay and try to make a bit on the side by flogging you extras such as legal representation. They pass the actual insured risk onto a faceless syndicate or panel of insurers who underwrite that risk and provide cover.

I suspect the reason why so many brokers change hands or rebrand themselves or merge or disappear altogether is that they're the shop front of the business and therefore they're the ones, and not the syndicate who catch all the poo and resultant bad publicity when it hits the propellor even though it'll be the syndicate who're actually causing that poo-splatter by coming over all litigious or refusing a claim or loss adjusting it down to a much lower value.

 

[LittleSister]

The "insurer" is only the front man - no more than a broker.

All they do is take a commission from the premium you pay and try to make a bit on the side by flogging you extras such as legal representation. They pass the actual insured risk onto a faceless syndicate or panel of insurers who underwrite that risk and provide cover.

I suspect the reason why so many brokers change hands or rebrand themselves or merge or disappear altogether is that they're the shop front of the business and therefore they're the ones, and not the syndicate who catch all the poo and resultant bad publicity when it hits the propellor even though it'll be the syndicate who're actually causing that poo-splatter by coming over all litigious or refusing a claim or loss adjusting it down to a much lower value.

Actually, they're less than a broker (a seemingly rare breed these days), as they're tied to a particular syndicate or group of syndicates, and don't have the obligation to provide the best for you.

On the other hand, yes, they're only a 'shopfront', but then that's how most purchases are made. You buy a car through a dealer, not directly with Ford, or whoever. Almost everybody buys their milk from Tesco or whoever, not from the farmer.

Far be it from me to defend yacht insurer retailers, but I'm don't think I'm aware of any who have needed to re-invent/rebrand themselves because of a reputation of bad responses to claims, but many who have seemed to be trundling along apparently successfully who have been swallowed up by competitors or others who want a slice of the action.

I don't know, but imagine that flogging insurance is something you could grow (or even downsize) incrementally, and wouldn't need to find a massive injection of money to, say, produce a new model of something complex, or open up a new plant or sales/delivery network in a different location.

A mystery to me.

 

[benjenbav]

Life insurance and pensions seems to similarly change hands and brands regularly. Fairly sure motor and home insurance do too - but they often keep the old brand to keep up the pretence of choice!

...

Reminds me of independent funeral directors, some years ago, many of which were bought by the Co-Op but continued to trade under the old name. In some areas it was quite difficult not to choose the Co-Op in one way or another.

Of course, there are many competitors in that business nowadays - it being currently almost impossible to avoid the advertising for yet another 'peace-of-mind-pay-now-no-frills-get-cremated-later' opportunity.

 

[Momac]

I got rid of one layer of boat insurance broker this year. It saved me about £40.

 

[Momac]

it being currently almost impossible to avoid the advertising for yet another 'peace-of-mind-pay-now-no-frills-get-cremated-later' opportunity.

People should not really worry about what happens after they are dead.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

Life insurance and pensions seems to similarly change hands and brands regularly. Fairly sure motor and home insurance do too - but they often keep the old brand to keep up the pretence of choice!

But you are remembering back to the 90s… non of my house, car, boat, life insurers were opperating under the same name (if at all) in 1995!

Going back to the 70s, even my bank no longer operates under the same name, despite my account number and sort code being unchanged since then!

 

[ashtead]

If this post is aimed at sales of brokers (as opposed to actual insurers ie the risk carrier) then sales and amalgamations either by sale of the company or by sale of customer book is fairly common not just in marine but other segments like home,motor ,pet and travel. Often it’s because a small broker is retiring but usually it’s because of acquision plans of large brokers making an approach. Historically for example Towergate was always acquiring brokerages(which left it with a highly confused corporate structure) but more recently you will have seen acquisition of A-plan . One of the real reasons small brokers have found it hard are increasing compliance costs (which is hidden in the premium paid ie there is no line saying compliance costs) plus rising ombudsman charges etc . The same scenario of larger corporately funded brokers has been seen in other segments (estate agents,car dealers etc) and no doubt will in a few years be seen in farming businesses with smaller farmers having to sell off to larger corporate ventures. The small brokers has is also threatened by new distribution models with technology dumbing down the quality level . The are clearly some more HNW firms out there Beazley is a global speciality firm but perhaps not in the segment for many forumites.

 

[seeSimon]

Reminds me of independent funeral directors, some years ago, many of which were bought by the Co-Op but continued to trade under the old name. In some areas it was quite difficult not to choose the Co-Op in one way or another.

Of course, there are many competitors in that business nowadays - it being currently almost impossible to avoid the advertising for yet another 'peace-of-mind-pay-now-no-frills-get-cremated-later' opportunity.

Yes, agree...there must be some advantages in them keeping the goalposts moving?

I'm an engineer, not an accountant...but savvy enough to notice that one of our long-term local funeral directors, on his Nth iteration, now has a Bently Bentayga as personal transport...

 

[The Q]

My car insurance broker got taken over by an insurance company, suddenly the quotes started rising way above everyone else..
They got dumped quickly..

 

[dunedin]

Some changes in the insurance "retailers" are due to being small businesses and the owner retiring - eg Y.

Suspect if there us a higher rate of change perhaps there is not enough profit margin in it. Hence smaller outfits sell their book to a bigger player seeking to improve profitability via economies of scale.
So maybe premiums currently are too low for the insurers?

 

[ashtead]

One of the hidden issues impacting insurers is the costs of holding capital and the increases required by regulators in solvency margins. If an insurer is forced to hold more capital then it might decide a line eg marine is too small value . In recent years we have seen Zurich selling their brand N&G which was acquired as part of the acquisition fromBAT. Clearly I don’t know rationale for sale but marine like N&G is non core to many insurers plus the volumes are not there and it’s hard to outsourc compared to say personal lines motor or home. So at a certain point if faced with new technology costs, increased IT security costs plus the regulatory burden markets like small ticketmarine might be marginal or even have a negative ie more than 100percent loss ratio .

 

[oldgit]

Yes, agree...there must be some advantages in them keeping the goalposts moving?

I'm an engineer, not an accountant...but savvy enough to notice that one of our long-term local funeral directors, on his Nth iteration, now has a Bently Bentayga as personal transport...

Recently spotted a brand spanking new Bentley Continental sporting a very unsettling coat of "Nauseous Metallic Green" , which proves something or other ?

 

[Chiara’s slave]

Yes, agree...there must be some advantages in them keeping the goalposts moving?

I'm an engineer, not an accountant...but savvy enough to notice that one of our long-term local funeral directors, on his Nth iteration, now has a Bently Bentayga as personal transport...

I used to race against a local funeral director. His crew was a pathologist, what a pair. He wasn’t notably short of a bob or 2, but then one day he turned up looking a bit haggard, and told us he’d been up all night, picking up bits of client from a railway track, and putting them in a bin sack for later reassembly. Not the easiest way to earn a living.

 

[Boater Sam]

I used to race against a local funeral director. His crew was a pathologist, what a pair. He wasn’t notably short of a bob or 2, but then one day he turned up looking a bit haggard, and told us he’d been up all night, picking up bits of client from a railway track, and putting them in a bin sack for later reassembly. Not the easiest way to earn a living.

But you don't get complaints!

 

[AntarcticPilot]

But you don't get complaints!

I'm reminded of the undertaker who saw to my aunt's funeral. She was 101, and the undertaker apologized that they hadn't been able to make her look as good as they usually did!

My uncle worked on the railways, from before WW2. Apparently in those days, if someone was obviously dead (e.g. in bits!), the ambulance didn't pick up the body. So railwaymen like my uncle sometimes had a gruesome task when someone went under a train.

 

[rotrax]

There is some humour in the macabre job of funerals.

First Mate and my mother's both died within a few weeks of each other.

On the occasion of the second funeral the cortege arrived outside. The Director came to our front door, whipped off his topper when First Mate opened it and gravely said "Good Morning Mrs Rotrax. We shall have to stop meeting like this!"