What has happened to the boat market?

[srm]

Just one thought for sellers. Take good photos, but also date them so a potential buyer knows they are representing the actual rather than past condition.
Most of my boats have been selected for viewing at long distances, as I lived in Shetland, and then Orkney. I would draw up a list of boats to view then drive down the country looking at them. One such trip was a disaster, not one boat worthy of a second thought. Yes they all had good pics, but on arriving at the boat it was obvious that they had been taken on launching, or after a refit and did not represent the now neglected mess. One boat could have been interesting, but for the frying pan full of congealed fat and other remains in the galley sink being representative of the general state and a rotted sail cover through which I could see a once tan mainsail now bleached white. I also noticed a gouge in the keel stepped mast just above the deck.

 

[scozzy]

Location for both parties a factor here too,how much is it costing you just to have Vs buyer knowing how much it costs you ,and how much it'll cost them wherever they intend to keep it?....my eyes often water on these pages when annual fees etc are discussed vs what I'm paying!

If the boats worth circa 10k (to you)and costing you 3k a year and fees due soon....is an offer of 7k unrealistic the week before you pay the bill?

 

[michael_w]

Pictures of the boat sailing are a must. Remove all your personal effects too.

 

[Refueler]

We had a beautiful Twister for sale in our marina for over a year. Last week I heard it’s finally sold.

That's fine if mooring / storage costs are low - moderate - but if marina fees etc. ? Then seller has in NET terms lost out ...

Lets think about it ... lets say a guy puts his boat on market at 10K ... say real value is 11K ... but someone comes along and offers 8.5K ... seller says no. No sale. 1 year later seller has coughed up over 2K .. maybe more in fees ... then finally sells at 7K.

Who's the loser ? Sad but too often the reality.

 

[lustyd]

That's fine if mooring / storage costs are low - moderate - but if marina fees etc. ? Then seller has in NET terms lost out ...

Lets think about it ... lets say a guy puts his boat on market at 10K ... say real value is 11K ... but someone comes along and offers 8.5K ... seller says no. No sale. 1 year later seller has coughed up over 2K .. maybe more in fees ... then finally sells at 7K.

Who's the loser ? Sad but too often the reality.

For reference, a 30' (9m) boat in the Solent is around £6k these days so makes your point even more important.

 

[Jim@sea]

I reluctantly decided last year to sell my Varne 27 because we're moving to Devon and there's little likelyhood of finding a mooring down there straight away. Also, I'm getting so old now that I want something a bit easier to sail, maybe a motor sailor.

She cost me £12K a few years ago and since then, it's been a process of constant refurbishment. Last year I renewed all the standing rigging and all the wiring. She sails beautifully, has a fabulous engine and everything works nicely.

I know boats, like cars, never hold their price but she is now up for sale at almost half the price I paid, with no glimmer of interest. There's another one that has been for sale for a year at a similar price. What do I do, give her away for £2K, including delivery? I just saw a Parker 27 for £10K. You can bet when I'm looking for a motor sailor I won't find one for £6K.

Is anyone managing to sell a secondhand boat or is it all hopeless?

Here she is, not for an advert, but I would appreciate opinions as to whether I am delusional.

Boats for sale UK, used boats, new boat sales, free photo ads - Apollo Duck

I found that when selling a cheap boat £5000 - £8000 that unless it has a Bilge Keel sailors at the cheaper end of the market don't want to pay £3000 - £5000 to have the boat in a marina
So when I bought my last boat it had a lifting keel and when I advertised it at £8000 I was inundated with enquiries, whereas previously with my lonk keel boat which I advertised at £8000 I eventually accepted £5000

 

[ylop]

Where are you advertising this, Apollo Duck and The Yachtmarket are good starting points.

Purely anecdotal observation from me from a few years ago Yachtmarket seemed to have better presented boats than Apollo Duck (more brokers, higher listing fees?) and from a user perspective hunting in a specific "range" was easier than just browsing.

Location for both parties a factor here too,

I'm not sure where the OP is, but that could be an issue. If he's in a busy sailing area there will be locals keen for a boat. If he's somewhere less popular then his buyer may well need to come from further afield and that means they have the cost and hassle of getting the boat where they want it. It is just in the size where road delivery will be expensive and delivery by sea will be particularly weather dependant.

That's fine if mooring / storage costs are low - moderate - but if marina fees etc. ? Then seller has in NET terms lost out ...

Lets think about it ... lets say a guy puts his boat on market at 10K ... say real value is 11K ... but someone comes along and offers 8.5K ... seller says no. No sale. 1 year later seller has coughed up over 2K .. maybe more in fees ... then finally sells at 7K.

Who's the loser ? Sad but too often the reality.

It depends if the seller has given up on it or is still enjoying sailing it. Vice versa, when we bought our current boat she came with 6 months marina fees already paid which was some sort of added value for us because we didn't have to cough up for that too, and we didn't have the hassle of finding a berth, rushing to move her before we had discovered its foibles etc.

 

[oldgit]

For reference, a 30' (9m) boat in the Solent is around £6k these days so makes your point even more important.

Sub £1k for that boat in virtually any small boat club on the Medway, or other less favoured East coast location, wether all tide trot or drying pontoon.
No boutique technical clothing shop though.

 

[lustyd]

wether all tide trot or drying pontoon.

That's a bit of an apples to orangutans comparison though, Refueler mentioned marinas and that was the price I highlighted. I'm sure there are some mud baths in the Solent for far less than £6k too, although possibly not quite that low

 

[mrming]

That's fine if mooring / storage costs are low - moderate - but if marina fees etc. ? Then seller has in NET terms lost out ...

Lets think about it ... lets say a guy puts his boat on market at 10K ... say real value is 11K ... but someone comes along and offers 8.5K ... seller says no. No sale. 1 year later seller has coughed up over 2K .. maybe more in fees ... then finally sells at 7K.

Who's the loser ? Sad but too often the reality.

The marina isn't wildly expensive, but the seller has definitely lost out. He has had another boat in the marina the whole time! Let's just say he's an enthusiast for beautiful, niche old yachts.

 

[Refueler]

The marina isn't wildly expensive, but the seller has definitely lost out. He has had another boat in the marina the whole time! Let's just say he's an enthusiast for beautiful, niche old yachts.

I have 4 boats ... but 2 are moored in my private channel bottom of garden.

1. 5m Soviet speedboat
2. 5m two berth weekender sailer
3. 25ft Bilge Keel Motor Sailer
4. 38ft Cruiser racer

3 + 4 are in the Yacht Harbour at present ... #3 having stbd bilge keel repaired ... #4 too large to be at home ...

Once the keel is repaired and she can go back in the water - she will come back to home mooring ....

I'm lucky that costs are quite low for the two in the harbour ... but I'm not selling anyway .. about 130 euros a month for the two. The other two of course cost me nothing.

 

[srm]

Location is important, here in Azores marina fees calculated on registered length. 35 ft (plus platform bowsprit and wind vane steering gear) cost near enough 1000 euro total per year for marina berth incl. electricity, Portugues "engine tax" and local light dues. Marina was paid last November, tax and dues in January so new owner has a grace period before outgoings. Being a local the marina allowed him to continue using the berth I had paid for until my renewal date.

This was much the same cost as my marina berth in Orkney when I left in 2014, though do not know current costs. But Orkney Marinas were a 'not for profit' local community project managed on a volunteer basis.

However, when it comes to selling both locations are "remote" from most buyers. My last boat was ashore in Plymouth when I bought her, coincidentally near where I had bought the previous boat. I sailed the previous boat down from Orkney and and handed her over to the yard I had bought her from to sell. It took just over a year to find a buyer at significantly less than I paid 5 years previously despite some upgrades and I had also paid yard fees at much more than it would have cost in the marina at home.

If one looks at selling with an accountant's hat on rather than as a fond boat owner then the advice of @BobnLesley in #40 makes a lot of sense - "sell cheap and sell fast"

EDIT: of the six boats I have owned only one was sold at the same price I paid, after three years ownership, a decommissioned fishing boat. Though broker fees came out of that and harbour dues for the year she was on the market. I lost more on all five yachts despite having added new sails/re-rigging etc. Its part of the costs of owning lower purchase price pre-used boats. The biggest loss was a steel yacht I had used for skippered charter/sailing school. External paint work was still good after 9 years hard use, but she was gently rusting away inside - sold her for estimated scrap value.

​

 

[steve yates]

Thats a great boat, and would probably sell quick enough at 5k, especially of you were mentally prepared to accept 4k to get rid. Better boat than a centaur and cheaper
Push it as a jester boat, that would hook some interest.
BUT, sort out that god awful stain on the floor, I was admiring your boat and layout till that pic jumped up and slapped me in the face, it will put folk right off. No real reason, its just a sudden subconscious disappointment and a reason to walk away. Cover it with carpet if nowt else for the pic.
Don’t think about what you have spent on her or paid for her, think about what she costs you. She is not an asset, but a liability to be rid off, the moment you decide you will not be sailing her again.

Either that or sail her to your new home area and use her.

 

[KevinV]

She's a lovely boat, but as a budget sailor I swerved away from the 27' size because it has most of the costs of larger boats, hauling, yard storage, etc, without the benefits of full-size accommodation. I went for a 22'er because I can put her on the trailer and store/ work on her at home if I need to, saving a lot.

I'd cover/clean/paint the stain on the floor and take some photos without your belongings on board so she looks ready to take away today. At the moment she looks like you're still using her, so not serious about selling. Even doing that I think you'll do well to get 5k - times are hard at the budget end of life and boats are a luxury.

 

[srm]

I reluctantly decided last year to sell my Varne 27 because we're moving to Devon and there's little likelyhood of finding a mooring down there straight away. Also, I'm getting so old now that I want something a bit easier to sail, maybe a motor sailor.

She cost me £12K a few years ago and since then, it's been a process of constant refurbishment. Last year I renewed all the standing rigging and all the wiring. She sails beautifully, has a fabulous engine and everything works nicely.

I know boats, like cars, never hold their price but she is now up for sale at almost half the price I paid, with no glimmer of interest. There's another one that has been for sale for a year at a similar price. What do I do, give her away for £2K, including delivery? I just saw a Parker 27 for £10K. You can bet when I'm looking for a motor sailor I won't find one for £6K.

Is anyone managing to sell a secondhand boat or is it all hopeless?

Here she is, not for an advert, but I would appreciate opinions as to whether I am delusional.

Boats for sale UK, used boats, new boat sales, free photo ads - Apollo Duck

Just looked at your ad. Initial impression from pics is "scruffy". Closer look its not so much the boat herself, just all the clutter in the pics. The fairly new upholstery covers may not be to everyone's taste but nothing you can do about that now. However, the first impression is your pics - go and take a new set having emptied the shelves and galley first. Clearly show what is going with the boat, remove everything else.

Not sure about your sales pitch. What on earth do you mean by "A forerunner to the folkboat". She is nothing like a Folkboat and they predate your Varne by many decades. That comparison with the much older design could, subconsciously, have a negative effect.

Sorry if this sounds harsh, but I am trying to be helpful by being objective. Your online ad is a bit like a dating ap, will they swipe left or right?

 

[steveeasy]

I’m going to try and rebance this thread. I don’t think I’ve seen such a bright clean looking boat for sale in that price range. The decks are good. New anchor. Almost new engine. The cockpit looks great so does the canvas.

What more could a buyer want for that money and that’s the point. I’m this part of the market buyers frankly are not satisfied if they get it for £2000. If you advertised it for that they would want it cheaper. It looks a lovelly boat and I hope you find a nice buyer who can appreciate. It’s not small. Anyone with any sense will pay nr the price you are asking for a good engine let alone the condition she is in.

Steveeasy

 

[dunedin]

Or perhaps investigate moorings where you are going in Devon and bring her with you ?

 

[srm]

If you advertised it for that they would want it cheaper.

Of course.
When selling the boat before last with a broker they expected any offer to be 20% below advertised price.
Bit of a "catch 22" for the seller, if you add 20% to asking price it will look overpriced and probably not get an offer.

 

[doug748]

Things are tight, I would hold on. There are always people saying boats are overpriced, they are the ones without boats.

Forepeak looks great, so does the cockpit and the engine. Put some dark blue, foam backed carpet down in the saloon and that will sort it - line with something or it will stick. 20 quid offcut would do it. The galley shot and one cabin snap look a tiny bit messy but it's a great buy, I might go down 1k to someone with genuine interest but pointless to go further in my view.
PS. I would lose the hanging fenders which detract from the lines of the boat.

"I reluctantly decided last year to sell my Varne 27 because we're moving to Devon and there's little likelyhood of finding a mooring down there straight away. Also, I'm getting so old now that I want something a bit easier to sail, maybe a motor sailor."

Lot of deep water in the West Country and swinging moorings are not hard to come by. Not a problem in Plymouth at all, cost would be £600 - £800 per summer - club prices or c£1600 commercial, with ferry service.

.

 

[KeelsonGraham]

Pictures of the boat sailing are a must. Remove all your personal effects too.

Why? What does that tell you? If the boat floats and has sails she’ll sail. No need to prove it with pictures. What’s really important are pictures of the deck, cockpit, instruments, engine space and interior spaces. Plus a long, detailed list of upgrades and improvements.

Yes, definitely declutter before taking pics.