Westerly Jouster Swing Keel will not drop

[Joustersailor]

I have a 21 ft Westerly Jouster, swing keel version, which has been sailed on inland waters (Windermere) for years. Having launched it off a trailer the first time after purchase I find that the keel will not go down. The winch works and it and the cable have been well greased. I can access the 'cable box' that runs to the bottom of the boat from the winch but it is narrow. Other than lifting the boat out of the water by a crane (expensive) does anyone have a solution please?

 

[Ian_Edwards]

My guess would be mud, and/or rust between the plate and the cast iron stub keel. It could even be a stone or stones jamming it.
You might be able to loosen it with water poured down the sides of the plate
If there's any movement at all, try working it back and forth, to try and disturb whatever jamming it.
I had similar problems with the lifting keel on a Jaguar 21, kept on a half tide mud berth.

 

[VicS]

My guess would be mud, and/or rust between the plate and the cast iron stub keel. It could even be a stone or stones jamming it.
You might be able to loosen it with water poured down the sides of the plate
If there's any movement at all, try working it back and forth, to try and disturb whatever jamming it.
I had similar problems with the lifting keel on a Jaguar 21, kept on a half tide mud berth.

Not Accessible from inside the boat like the lifting keel of jaguar 21

 

[fearmhuir]

I have a 21 ft Westerly Jouster, swing keel version, which has been sailed on inland waters (Windermere) for years. Having launched it off a trailer the first time after purchase I find that the keel will not go down. The winch works and it and the cable have been well greased. I can access the 'cable box' that runs to the bottom of the boat from the winch but it is narrow. Other than lifting the boat out of the water by a crane (expensive) does anyone have a solution please?

Could there be a pin of some sort that holds the keel up?

 

[William_H]

Presumably the lift cable has gone slack. So if was me I would be under the hull with snorkel and mask and give it a yank. Now likely OP is not up to getting in the water. I might suggest go into a beach area where the stub keel is near touching bottom. But where you can stand at sides of boat. Run a rope if you can from one side of the hull under neath to the other side. Move the rope to a point near and above the tip of the keel. Then get a person on each side to bear down on the rope so pulling the tip of the swing keel down.
Or perhaps a long pole also in shallow water pushed under to get some leverage to lever out the keel. All would involve getting wet to some degree. Wild ideas yes. And yes we have warm water here. ol'will

 

[Daydream believer]

If you cannot see it, are you sure that it is still there?
Friend of mine was having the same problem. Turned out that it had dropped off & is sitting on the seabed somewhere.
We have had several swing keels fall off on our moorings over the years due to lack of maintenance.

If you get into shallow water you could get a length of 4*2 & a block of wood. Stick the end over the top of the keel. May have to cut a taper on the end of the timber & hammer it in between hull & keel. Then Place the block against the hull & pull up on the 4*2 thus forcing the keel down. Might not need the block as one can use the round of the hull as a fulcrum. Might even do it from a dinghy on a calm day if one can reach down enough to force the 4*2 between hull & keel Then pull up with a rope from the side deck

 

[neil_s]

Have you tried lifting the keel first before lowering it? This often works for me - but I have a drying mooring where stones and mud can get jammed in the box. I always leave the boat with the keel winch 5 turns down so I can give it a hoick if it doesn't cooperate!

 

[Pye_End]

In the end, my lift keel Sonata had to be craned up, with the swing keel anchored to the floor, for it to release.

I have always wondered if there was corrosion up the slot that made it harder over the years (in addition to the mud). Pulled the plate out one year for really good clean and fresh paint, but hard to see what was going on up the slot at the time.

The tube allowed for a stick to be put down it to give a bit of a push - personally didn't have any success with this, but yours might be 'less stuck'.

 

[alahol2]

I don't know how big the 'cable hole' is but I'd be trying to get a steel rod down there. You may be able to get it to rest on the top edge of the centre plate then give it a hammering. Otherwise maybe get alongside a jetty and try to 'vibrate' the centreplate by hitting it with a lump of 2 x 2, 4 x 4 or whatever. On my Stag, if the centreplate gets stuck with mud/shells eg. the 'vibration' method is the most effective.

 

[Refueler]

Please do not let wire get too slack as it can kink and then when you raise wire - it can bind ... then you have a double problem .... keel not moving and slack wire stuck.

My Father made that mistake on our lift keel 23 ....

 

[jonmoore]

I have a Westerly Jouster swing keel and had exactly this problem. The keel was stuck halfway when I bought it. Now it’s all the way down. But it took a lot of work. I had to remove the keel using a forklift in the yard. It was completely rammed with barnacles etc. I grinded the keel, wire brushed the housing, primed, painted and grease the keel and with a lot of effort, managed to get it back in the housing.
I can send video if you need it.
Just beware the keel is 400kg so be sure your cable is good and don’t leave completely slack - if the keel does free and fall, that weight could possibly rip the bottom of your boat out. We have an owners group on Facebook. Come join us and I’ll share more there. “Westerly Jouster Owners”. I’d love to see pics of your boat.

 

[john_morris_uk]

Apologies. Somehow I posted that twice. No idea how to delete.

No problem. I’ve deleted for you.

 

[Joustersailor]

I have a Westerly Jouster swing keel and had exactly this problem. The keel was stuck halfway when I bought it. Now it’s all the way down. But it took a lot of work. I had to remove the keel using a forklift in the yard. It was completely rammed with barnacles etc. I grinded the keel, wire brushed the housing, primed, painted and grease the keel and with a lot of effort, managed to get it back in the housing.
I can send video if you need it.
Just beware the keel is 400kg so be sure your cable is good and don’t leave completely slack - if the keel does free and fall, that weight could possibly rip the bottom of your boat out. We have an owners group on Facebook. Come join us and I’ll share more there. “Westerly Jouster Owners”. I’d love to see pics of your boat.

 

[Joustersailor]

Hi jonmoore
Thank you for the response. Some very useful pointers here. I would appreciate the video.
How easy was it to release the pin/bolt on which the keel swings? It looks like there is a nut on both sides of a bolt but I may be wrong. What paints and grease did you use please? I would be happy to show you pictures of the boat when I return from holiday in January . Lastly, how do I join the owners club? Many thanks

 

[Joustersailor]

Responding to JonMoore's note. 15th July 2023. I will be taking the Jouster out of the water this week and I am planning how to remove the keel. I would appreciate the video mentioned to help me with the planning especially in removing the pin on which the keel swivels.

 

[Joustersailor]

I have a Westerly Jouster swing keel and had exactly this problem. The keel was stuck halfway when I bought it. Now it’s all the way down. But it took a lot of work. I had to remove the keel using a forklift in the yard. It was completely rammed with barnacles etc. I grinded the keel, wire brushed the housing, primed, painted and grease the keel and with a lot of effort, managed to get it back in the housing.
I can send video if you need it.
Just beware the keel is 400kg so be sure your cable is good and don’t leave completely slack - if the keel does free and fall, that weight could possibly rip the bottom of your boat out. We have an owners group on Facebook. Come join us and I’ll share more there. “Westerly Jouster Owners”. I’d love to see pics of your boat.

Returning to this issue. The boat is out of the water now and I am planning how to make the swing keel drop further than half way where it is stuck, I need to take the weight off the keel amd housing so that when I release the keel by taking out the bolt it will slide out so that I can clean it an the housing.
Questions: Any ideas on how to take the weight off the keel and housing. Is the keel held on by a bolt or by a pin with two nuts ? What is he best way to take out the bolt?

Any help apprecated

 

[Ian_Edwards]

Assuming the hull is securely supported, and the end of the keel is on the ground. Then you need to suppprt the forward end of keel, either from above, or more likely from below.
I would try an position a jack under the keel directly below the pivot bolt.
The general idea is to take the load off the bolt. I found that difficult to judge, too much force in any direction will make the the bolt difficult to remove.
Extend to jack as far as practical and use wooden blocks to make contact with the keel. Gently apply pressure to keel.
I use a drift, with a diameter slightly shorter than the bolt and a lump hammer to tap the bolt out.
Use the jack to gently lower it.
The arrangement should be reasonably stable as long as part of the keel is still in the box.
Good luck!
I found it much harder to get the keel back in, and especially lining the bolt hole up with the hole in the case.

 

[jonmoore]

I have a 21 ft Westerly Jouster, swing keel version, which has been sailed on inland waters (Windermere) for years. Having launched it off a trailer the first time after purchase I find that the keel will not go down. The winch works and it and the cable have been well greased. I can access the 'cable box' that runs to the bottom of the boat from the winch but it is narrow. Other than lifting the boat out of the water by a crane (expensive) does anyone have a solution please?

Did you fix this? I found a trick the last time this happened. I fired up the outboard and motored forward, then started turning from side to side. The keel gradually started lowering by itself.

Up to you how hard you make the turns. I was going for it.

Make sure you’re in calm open water. And let the cable out slowly, just enough for the keel to drop a few inches every time, rather than risking it drop all the way and causing damage to the hull.

 

[Joustersailor]

Thank you all for your responses.
I have had the boat out of the water on a crane in 2023 but we found it impossible to get the keel to come dowm further than half way and ran out of time. The boat sails well on half a keel down but that is not a long term option. . Ideally, I need to take the boat to the crane again and take the keel out but taht is not possible as I have moved to another lake.
Therefore the best option in taking the weight off the keel then taking the bolt out to slide the keel out. The the plan is to clean the rust off the keel and inside the keel box and return the keel to the box,
I appreciate the ideas of how to take the weight off the keel and box given by Ian Edwards. I will try that in the new year. In the meantime, if there are any other suggestion along these lines I would value them.