Westerly Centaur

Seajet said:
I'd have a rethink about the loads if I were you; I'm a qualified engineer and the idea of splayed keels going up and down, in and out of mud, makes my toes curl !
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Curl your toes away. Splayed keels can be engineered correctly to be mud-proof, as British Hunter, Hurleys and lots of others show - including other Westerlies. It's not exactly rocket science, as Prof Pillinger once described the task of mending the space shuttle while in orbit.

But this is Fred Drift. £5k for the boat as described is a complete waste of money in everyone's opinion but yours.
 
AngusMcDoon said:
Curl your toes away. Splayed keels can be engineered correctly to be mud-proof, as British Hunter, Hurleys and lots of others show - including other Westerlies. It's not exactly rocket science, as Prof Pillinger once described the task of mending the space shuttle while in orbit.

But this is Fred Drift. £5k for the boat as described is a complete waste of money in everyone's opinion but yours.
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Who's 'everyone' ?

A few people on a boat chat forum who apparently aren't too good at DIY.

As I said, as long as the engine and rig are OK it's a chance to fit the interior one wants, I've fitted out a couple of boats from bare hulls, have you ?! :)
 
WestWittering said:
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That looks good!

My old centaur which I sold about 10 years ago, is afloat in a creek. The deck and coachroof are green with mould, the undersides trail yards of seaweed and the torn and perished sails hang in tatters from the furler and boom.

Why do people do it? I sold it for, I think £7k. It was used for a year and has sat here ever since -it doesn't even look if anyone has been aboard.
 
Seajet said:
As I said, as long as the engine and rig are OK it's a chance to fit the interior one wants, I've fitted out a couple of boats from bare hulls, have you ?! :)
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It doesn't matter how good you are at DIY. If it's an empty hull the cost of the materials alone mean that you will never get anything like your money back even if your time is free. It will still be an old boat when you are finished and not worth much.

Did you look at that one on Boatshed? I can't link to it because you need to log in to see the details. But given that neither of us know the condition of the engine and exterior kit of the OP's £5k boat, I can't see how it can possibly be better value than the Boatshed one which is complete and ready to go at £200 more.

In answer to your question - no. I've known enough people try to see that on an old and ordinary boat it makes no financial sense. Nathan keeps trying, but just spends money and doesn't go sailing.
 
Seajet said:
Angus,

I'd have a rethink about the loads if I were you; I'm a qualified engineer and the idea of splayed keels going up and down, in and out of mud, makes my toes curl !


Just because it makes your toes curl, does not mean it is a problem. I have a centaur and for the past 7 years it has sat in a soft mud berth and I have experienced no problems at all.

That aside; I purchased my Centaur (1979) for £9500. It was in good nick and useable as it was. Since then I have replaced the engine with a new Beta myself at £4500 that includes having a new fuel tank made and all the other bits that are required such as exhaust, intakes etc.
New sprayhood and cockpit tent ( £1100). Rigging replaced this year including forestay ( £800). running rigging 80% replaced (£57). I have been given a price for Genoa and main at around £1300.
If I was to sell now, the above might make her sell quicker but I do not for one minute expect to make my expenditure back but isnt that the same with most things other then a house. I do it because I enjoy use of the boat not to make money.
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An stripped Centaur is worth 3k tops if it has a decent engine, rig and sails; if those are tired also it's practically worthless. £500, up to maybe 1k if the exterior cosmetics are good.
 
carannah said:
Seajet said:
Angus,

I'd have a rethink about the loads if I were you; I'm a qualified engineer and the idea of splayed keels going up and down, in and out of mud, makes my toes curl !


Just because it makes your toes curl, does not mean it is a problem. I have a centaur and for the past 7 years it has sat in a soft mud berth and I have experienced no problems at all.

That aside; I purchased my Centaur (1979) for £9500. It was in good nick and useable as it was. Since then I have replaced the engine with a new Beta myself at £4500 that includes having a new fuel tank made and all the other bits that are required such as exhaust, intakes etc.
New sprayhood and cockpit tent ( £1100). Rigging replaced this year including forestay ( £800). running rigging 80% replaced (£57). I have been given a price for Genoa and main at around £1300.
If I was to sell now, the above might make her sell quicker but I do not for one minute expect to make my expenditure back but isnt that the same with most things other then a house. I do it because I enjoy use of the boat not to make money.
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Carannah,

I think you're talking sense rather than some people who seem to think they should be paid to take a good versatile seaworthy boat just because they don't fancy come woodwork ! :rolleyes:
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Seajet said:
I think you're talking sense rather than some people who seem to think they should be paid to take a good versatile seaworthy boat just because they don't fancy come woodwork ! :rolleyes:
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Have you looked at the Centaur I found on Boatshed? Are you still claiming that the stripped out one for £200 less represents better value?
 
pvb said:
Some people just can't resist a "project"!
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I have no problem with that. Some people like the tinkering more than the sailing. That's fine; whatever floats (or not) your boat.

But a stripped out old centaur for £5k being described as 'a steal', well that's just bonkers when comparing the prices of similar but complete ones. But he's not going to admit it, is he?

Anyway, that's it for me here. I'm off for some equinoctal boating. Forecast looking reasonable. Might pop over to Dublin if it's in my envelope.
 
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Bearing in mind that you will have to spend a solid year doing it up, and perhaps £3k to £5k to complete; provided the sails, engine and standing rigging is good; I would not pay more than £3,500. Also, projects do go wrong and people loose interest, so does it really worth it?.

Nowadays, you can buy a good yacht for relatively little money; thanks to the recession.
 
Seajet said:
Ain't no such thing as a fin keel Centaur; that would be a very different ( and rather unsuccessful ) design, as mentioned above.
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More rubbish. Quote from advert for Pembroke. "The hull and deck, and most interior mouldings, are almost identical to those of the much better known bilge-keeled Westerly Centaur, of which thousands were built from 1968 onwards."
 
The Centaur was a Laurent Giles design I think; I forget who perpetrated the Tiger etc, have a feeling that was also LG; boats from the Griffin & Konsort on were Ed Dubois jobs.

I don't seek to impress my opinion on anyone, just say what I personally feel; but it's flattering some people seem to think anything I say is some sort of commandment ! :)

I'll say it again, if the Centaur in question has a good rig, sails and engine she would be a steal for someone handy at DIY and offers the chance of a custom interior.

If a few people here seem to think putting an interior into a yacht is more difficult then the Appollo moon landing programme. that's their problem and inadequacies. :D
 
Only offer £2K

Any boat of that age which is a project will be a money pit, I speak from my own experience having refurbished a motor sailor and carried out a lot of work on a 31" Westerly Pentland.

At the end of the day a mid 70s Centaur will not be worth any more than £5 to £6K with its MD2xxx thumper. Forget about rebuilding the engine, it will cost you £1000's and you will still have a 40 year old rust bucket. Sails will cost about £1.5K from the likes of Crusader. New rigging will be about £600 if you shop around. Odds and sods like toilet cooker bilge pumps and running rigging will add a further £1.5K. So I would budget for around £4K

Work on the basis that your boat will be worth about £6k when you have sorted out all the problems. Take away what you will spend on it, about £4k leaving a purchase price of £2K for a project boat.

I was offered one recently for £5K and I worked out that I would have to have spend £7k including a new engine. I walked away.

Centaur Project boat ............. Not a penny over £2K.
 
Seajet. John Butler was the designer of the Westerly Tiger and its smaller(23ft)sister the Cirrus.

The interiors of the Centaur and Pembroke are virtuall identical to that of the Tiger and Cirrus, but have options to their layout below.
A well cared for Tiger with a modern Beta, Nanni or Volvo 10hp engine will be offered at around £7.5-8K; there's one on the Hamble that is in very good condition that has been for sale for a year now, but I suspect it still has the original 10hp Volvo MD1B.

The Tiger is an easily driven yacht under sail or motor,and does not need a larger engine for her 6kts, is very predictable going astern, rather better handling in this respect than the Centaur.
The headlining replacement does not have to be in vinyl, the side panels would look better in vinyl though, but an example I've seen has the headlining in 1mm thick ply and varnished, or painted with a matt white if you prefer.
Replacement side windows -the aluminium frames alone are about a £100 each and need those special screws to fix them.
Like all of the early Westerlys they are heavily built and may attract some osmosis, but are sound hulls and rigs, however, should you view one check the deck fittings for any deformation of the deck and upper fastenings particularly near to the previously mentioned forward window area.
Of course I am a Tiger owner,but I still like and have sailed a Centaur regularly some years ago,and they are good boats.


ianat182
 
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