Westerly Centaur

[bitbaltic]

Sorry chaps. Must put brain in gear, check facts before posting. Stand corrected

Absolutely no worries I knew nothing about the Tiger and thanks for mentioning it as it looks a very lovely boat and definitely very similar to the Centaur.

Seajet- I guess the pembroke was unsuccessful in sales terms as they seem pretty rare but is there any reason a Centaur hull with a fin keel would be a bad boat? Maybe just so may bilge keeled Centaurs had been sold that nobody fancied buying a 'modified' one.

 

[theoldsalt]

I didn't mean to cause such a thead drift by my comment on the Centeur. It was just that the Pembroke is not well known and it is sometimes (but as said quite wrongly) known colloquially as a "fin keeled Centeur".

In the same way a Chieftain is sometimes refered to as a "Centeur with an aft cabin" (or centre cockpit).

See this in Boats and Outboards web site.

http://www.boatsandoutboards.co.uk/yachts/westerly-chieftain-centaur-with-aft-cabin-PAA13157

So back to helping the OP with his dilemma

 

[Seajet]

Wolf in sheeps' clothing

Absolutely no worries I knew nothing about the Tiger and thanks for mentioning it as it looks a very lovely boat and definitely very similar to the Centaur.

Seajet- I guess the pembroke was unsuccessful in sales terms as they seem pretty rare but is there any reason a Centaur hull with a fin keel would be a bad boat? Maybe just so may bilge keeled Centaurs had been sold that nobody fancied buying a 'modified' one.

bitbaltic,

I think the whole hull shape of the Centaur was designed by Laurent Giles around the 2nd - 3rd generation twin keels.

I suspect simply stuffing a fin keel on would be very disappointing if expecting a performance gain.

One would obviously beef up the hull for a fin keel ( which really should be in the design from day one ).

You'd think the wetted area drag of twin keels would put the tin hat on any performance, but having sailed my fathers' late model Centaur ( 2187 ) I reckon she could take on and surprise quite a few boats; we did !

N.B, Portsmouth Yardstick handicap ratings are based on race results handed in by clubs, how many people have taken part in informal club races then had the results sent in by the club handicapper ?!

On that basis - ill informed handicap rating - I wouldn't be surprised if a well sailed Centaur duffed up something like a Contessa 32 on handicap !

 

[jwilson]

Fin keel Centaur is a Tiger. Pembroke much bigger.

Tiger a completely different hull, by different designer. Pembroke is fin keel version of Centaur.

 

[alan_d]

From The Westerly Story by Easteal & Poland:

The final Centaur variant, the Pembroke, was launched in 1976. Simply a Centaur with a fin keel, the Pembroke was introduced to replace the fin-keeled 25ft Tiger as it was phased out.

I see that 2444 Centaurs were built but only 97 Pembrokes. The other "Centaur variant" was the twin-keel, centre-cockpit Chieftain, of which 79 were built.

 

[aquaplane]

Prices can vary from £7K for a very poor example to £14k for a "perfect" example with all necessary work already completed.

Tarik, which end of the price range are you?

I believe that your prices are out of date, maybe 5 years ago you would be right.

An untidy sailable one with original engine could be asking about £5000.

I recon I could ask £7,000 for my reasonably tidy 1979 one with head lining and engine to replace, not that the head lining looks bad, and the engine is reliable for now. Some chancer would probably offer £5,000 but we could come to some arangement.

Some folk are asking >£10,000 for well equiped re-engined ones, good luck to them but I think they are dreaming, it's still a 30-40 year old boat.

A project is virtually worthless to me, but not to some folk.

 

[AngusMcDoon]

if you like the boat and the format - twin keel go anywhere, big engine as Plan B - suits you, I would say she's a steal at £5,000

There's a tidy sailable Centaur (original engine) with complete interior on Boatshed for £5200 (ref 144641). But I expect the ripped out interior on the boat the OP mentions could be replaced for less than £200 in Seajetonomics. Just how much can headlining, plywood, and a bit of cushion fabric cost?

 

[WestWittering]

bitbaltic,

N.B, Portsmouth Yardstick handicap ratings are based on race results handed in by clubs, how many people have taken part in informal club races then had the results sent in by the club handicapper ?!

On that basis - ill informed handicap rating - I wouldn't be surprised if a well sailed Centaur duffed up something like a Contessa 32 on handicap !

I'll let you know, Flora has her first race on Saturday. Two things though,

1. She will not be well-sailed - we are a motley crew!
2. The more money we pledge for the Hospice, the more points we get!!

Di

 

[kds]

Don't underestimate the keel problem !

3 Centours in recent club experience have had to have major surgery on their keels. One of them literally fell off as it settled on the sand. This is not an easy job. A member who works in S.S. built a full frame joining both in a massive lattice and seems to have sorted it.
He also sails it well - but he is a dinghy helmsman and knows what he is doing. They can be FAST.
ken

 

[Seajet]

My dad's Centaur, a late model - no. 2187 - already had beefed up keels, but on our soft mud moorings they still seeped a little at the bolts.

Dad being an engineer, he reinforced the keel stubs internally with massive grp and plywood webs, using a socket spanner with a tommy bar about 6' long to tension the keel bolts.

They still weeped slightly ! He decided to put up with that, as he knew by then the keels wouldn't fall off any time soon.

A chum at the club with an early Centaur ( there is a theory that early ones were more heavily built, I suspect this is true but have never seen any proof either way ) is also an engineer and had done similar modifications.

However every time the boat was lifted by the club hoist, a tiny gap would appear at the leading edge of the keel join; when this happened the last time after a lot of work I happened to be there, the owner was close to tearing his hair out !

When one thinks of the load on splayed keels going into and out of soft mud twice a day with the tide, it's amazing any structure can stand it.

 

[AngusMcDoon]

When one thinks of the load on splayed keels going into and out of soft mud twice a day with the tide, it's amazing any structure can stand it.

It can be done easily. It's just a question of the designer understanding the load and doing the engineering, which Westerly obviously did not. Similar designs like Hunters don't suffer this problem that I am aware.

The loads on a 26' boat's keels being pulled out of the mud will be minor compared to those endured by the beam to hull joints on those huge French tri's that whizz around at 40 knots flying the main hull.

 

[Kelpie]

The answer is it depends:
(note all the costs are round figure estimates)
How well has he stripped the inside?
How much has he stripped?
If you need to re vinyl it will cost you around £1500 DIY and is not difficult if the inside is prepped well
If he has ripped out the heads and the galley then you will have some costs there, say £1k each
New foam and upholstery will cost you about £1000 if you look around, dont go near a marine upholsterer.
Is the boat on the hard at the moment? Will tou have to move it nearer to home? what cost to store and move?
Whats the engine like? say 5K to replace DIY
Sails say £3k for new front and back
Are there any leaks in the windows or elsewhere - they would need to be fixed well before you refurb the interior
Does the cooker work?
Replace all the gas lines properly say £500
Then you have instruments and vhf etc which is up to you how far you go
New halyards and sheets probably £300
List goes on, its difficult without more detail.
It also depends on what you are prepared to put up with, you could put an oil lamp a bucket for washing, a bucket for heads, a blow up mattress and a sleeping bag in and be quite happy... (I wouldn't expect swmbo to come sailing with you though)

If the hull is sound with no osmosis, the mast and boom are good, there are no leaks, no softspots in the deck, the winches work and the engine is good then make an offer at 3k it has to be worth a punt.

Cheers
Nick

This all seems a bit pessimistic.
£1k to rebuild the heads? When a Jabsco costs under £100?
£3k for sails is double what it cost me on a similar sized boat.
etc.

 

[AngusMcDoon]

This all seems a bit pessimistic.
£1k to rebuild the heads? When a Jabsco costs under £100?
£3k for sails is double what it cost me on a similar sized boat.
etc.

I agree that those proces are very high, but I'd still rather pay £5k for a boat with an interior rather than the same price for the same boat without.

 

[prv]

I would say she's a steal at £5,000.

With a ripped-out interior?

I guess it depends what one means by "ripped out". I'm imagining a bare fibreglass cave. I'd expect such a boat to be worth basically nothing, few hundred quid maybe. If it just means no headlining or upholstery, that's a bit different, but still not a "steal" at 5000.

Pete

 

[pvb]

I think another factor to consider is this: if the owner decided to rip the interior out, it must have been in a bit of a state previously, so what condition is the rest of the boat in?

 

[pvb]

Just how much can headlining, plywood, and a bit of cushion fabric cost?

Ah, I bet those words have been said by many owners of dismal wrecks which are now languishing, unsaleable, in boatyards and gardens all over the country.

 

[colhel]

About 15 years ago I had a look at a yacht around 30ft, it was advertised at £10000. The interior was there but needed replacing, vendor said he'd accept 5k. A week later he phoned to say I could have it for free
I still said no. You have to take into account storage costs, time invested, and costs to get it up together. The cost incurred once the boat is up and running don't stop and another 5k spent on getting a good example soon makes sense

 

[Seajet]

Angus,

I'd have a rethink about the loads if I were you; I'm a qualified engineer and the idea of splayed keels going up and down, in and out of mud, makes my toes curl !

Pete,

if the keels are well attached and there's a decent engine & rig ( inc decent sails ) 5K seems good to me.

It's a good point to ask why the interior was ripped out in the first place though !

As the Centaur never had the reputation as the best interior afloat, it would be a chance for an experienced buyer to fit something better, within the constraints of fitting a main bulkhead or compression post.

In saying this I'm presuming the Westerly Owners Association would be a big help.

 

[Lakesailor]

Just how much can headlining, plywood, and a bit of cushion fabric cost?

Have you seen the price of cushion foam these days?
Like others say if the boat had a duff interior it's time to shake out the sails and see how many hundreds of pounds needs spending there. Motor, keels, standing and running rigging.
There are great boats out there for not much more that just need sailing.
( I Just looked on Boatshop UK and there are some pretty impressive hopefuls trying to sell their boats on there for £10/14K)

Reality check required.

 

[AngusMcDoon]

Have you seen the price of cushion foam these days? Reality check required.

I know what all this lot costs! I was saying it tongue in cheek because the £5k boat with no interior was described as 'a steal' when for another £200 you can get the same boat with an interior and ready to sail!