Westerly Centaur reversing...or not as the case may be.

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Dougy

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In yarmouth over the summer I pulled into a nice finger pontoon next to a 100k+ yacht, the ones where they have matching sailing jackets (which didnt go down too well with my raggedy arse crew who now want the same)...anyway I digress...I arrived all professional like (ish) and the following morning was hoping my insurance was up together as I tried to reverse off the pontoon to port.
The boat didn't turn going backwards, just went sidewards towards the nice man and his posh yacht. The sound of my engine must have got louder to him below deck whilst having his breakfast, as he must have raced topside without thinking because he didn't have the nice jacket on, he stood watching impassively as an embarrassed smiling me slowly drifted past his bow.... I was hoping everyone was still asleep and no one noticed but as always when you cock up there are crowds watching, when you pull off that perfect manoeuvre No one! anyway I digress again.. I shouted as we passed barely inches apart "that was close" to which he replied "close is good". I was expecting a worse response than that so thank you..
With engine revving and people mocking and all about rising from breakfast to see what the commotion was, it was clear to anyone, I had now lost the plot and panic was setting in.
I had to make a double figure point turn to manoeuvre the boat to get the pointy end aiming at the entrance. At one point I thought the rudder must have fallen off in the night.
Finally pointing the right way I risked a glance aft to see all the boat owners chatting and looking well relieved that the pleb had finally left.
After leaving Yarmouth and getting stick from the crew, (deservedly so I thought at the time) I assumed it was ineptitude on my part...pretty piss poor driving was the crews chants all the way home, So with a feeling of incompetence and shame I thought I would ask god (AKA google) where I went wrong.
AHA!! I found out it is a common problem especially with the early centaurs. So I may not be a shite helmsman or directionally challenged.... it was the boat. Yes I am blaming the bloody boat as I have tried again since to manoeuvre around slowly going backwards in tight spaces...It doesn't do it. I am hoping the growth underneath has had something to do with it and when it has been scraped and copper bottomed this winter I will see a marked improvement in her manoeuvrability in the backwards direction. But beware potential Centaur purchasers try it out in reverse first, its scary...
I have since found out Via God (AKA google) that you need to go oh so slowly to get any turn. It has to do with prop drift...??apparently. Does this mean if I use my back up 4hp outboard to reverse I will be ok?
 
I bought a Centaur as a first boat when fairly new to sailing & have to say I didn't have any particular problems with reversing. Apart from a small amount of prop walk I found she went pretty well backwards, so much so that I frequently parked that way from choice (& even performed some rather fancy manoeuvres in Yarmouth on occasion). Others might have suggestions as to why yours was misbehaving but on my experience I wouldn't put it down to Centaurs as a class.
 
Hey Dougy - you need to be moving through the water to have steerage going astern. On my centaur it always seems to take slightly longer than expected to get steerage when reversing out of a berth. (I have a centaur with no skeg) With an outboard, assuming you're rotating it, you'll get more steerage earlier but you'll have to be using both tillers at the same time... which can be tricky ;)
 
I was hoping it was the boat as there are a dozen or more members on the centaur owners site who have complained about the same problem so maybe its not the boat then and we are all shite helmsmen/helmswoman (PC) :-)
 
Yes it seems from recent experiments, If I have enough room astern I can manoeuvre once I have built up the speed going backwards. But as you panic all reason leaves and I just revved the engine more and turned the tiller more and it just got worse and worse :-) will be all prept for next season with a bit more practice in open water.
 
Dougy said:
Yes it seems from recent experiments, If I have enough room astern I can manoeuvre once I have built up the speed going backwards. But as you panic all reason leaves and I just revved the engine more and turned the tiller more and it just got worse and worse :-) will be all prept for next season with a bit more practice in open water.
Click to expand...

Many boats are like that and the early Centaurs well known for it. You just have to adopt strategies that avoid having to turn to port at low speed in reverse. Nothing you can do with the boat to change it.
 
Tranona said:
Many boats are like that and the early Centaurs well known for it. You just have to adopt strategies that avoid having to turn to port at low speed in reverse. Nothing you can do with the boat to change it.
Click to expand...
Now I know its not so bad, but that first time I went astern, turned the tiller and nothing happened except that posh yacht looming closer was a bit twitchy.
 
Try a Twister for reversing fun :D

A year or two ago, Tom Cunliffe wrote an article for one of the magazines describing a trial he carried out into the astern steering cabilities of three yachts. One was a Twister which he found had none! I think one of the other two yachts was a Centaur. It might be worth investigating to see if it helps you.
 
Having crewed on my father shiny new Centaur which he acquired in 1976 I think that even new versions never went backwards that well and to be honest he always tried to avoid any reversing and this was a serious consideration before berthing to work out the way out . That said I have seen a few Centaurs that have backed down the fairway at Yarmouth without incident so it is possible but they all seem to do it quite slowly which must be based on experience that they cannot back up that fast.
 
I bought a new Centaur in 1976 (first saily boat) and don't have any recollection of difficulties manoeuvring in marinas, forwards or backwards.
 
It is no good making excuses. I've tried often enough, and they are never accepted, not unreasonably. Many boats have odd characteristics, but, as I am tired of saying, they all obey the laws of physics. Other things being equal, ie no wind or current, any boat will go astern in a straight line without taking prop walk into account. Therefore, all that is needed to manoeuvre a boat subject to prop walk is to direct it astern without having power engaged. A dirty great burst of throttle should get any yacht moving out of a finger berth, and if the engine is immediately knocked into neutral, the steering will be neutral too. Having got the boat turning, you will then usually be able to use the prop walk in your favour when you move ahead, preferably using the remaining angular momentum.
 
johnalison said:
It is no good making excuses. I've tried often enough, and they are never accepted, not unreasonably. Many boats have odd characteristics, but, as I am tired of saying, they all obey the laws of physics. Other things being equal, ie no wind or current, any boat will go astern in a straight line without taking prop walk into account. Therefore, all that is needed to manoeuvre a boat subject to prop walk is to direct it astern without having power engaged. A dirty great burst of throttle should get any yacht moving out of a finger berth, and if the engine is immediately knocked into neutral, the steering will be neutral too. Having got the boat turning, you will then usually be able to use the prop walk in your favour when you move ahead, preferably using the remaining angular momentum.
Click to expand...

I'm afraid that's far too sensible an approach. :rolleyes:
 
johnalison said:
It is no good making excuses. I've tried often enough, and they are never accepted, not unreasonably. Many boats have odd characteristics, but, as I am tired of saying, they all obey the laws of physics. Other things being equal, ie no wind or current, any boat will go astern in a straight line without taking prop walk into account.
Click to expand...

My boat's in for the winter. You're very welcome to try that theory. I shall watch with considerable interest.
 
The article I referred to in Post #11 appeared in Yachting Monthly, February 2009.

The three boats Tom Cunliffe tested were: Twister, Centaur and a Beneteau Oceanis.
 

Mr Tom on a Centaur..

I find with my boat (when conditions are good) just clicking it into astern with minimal revs gets me moving backwards, big blasts of throttle just induce prop walk. If I'm on a pontoon I have no shame in having a crew member on the finger keeping the bow in whilst walking the boat back.
 
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