Westerly Centaur as a first boat, anything particular I should look closely at?

Jungle Jim

Jungle Jim

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I have the opportunity to buy a Westerley Centaur 1970 26ft which would be my first boat. I'm a reasonably experienced dinghy sailor, done time in keel boats and completed day skipper theory. I have been out on this boat before, in fine weather with not much wind and it was lovely.

However as a novice I'm just about qualified to go round it and 'kick the tyres'.

I would appreciate any input from forumites about what points I should ask about, or look at, or concentrate on for this type of boat.

The aim is to stick the L plates on her and learn with some local trips (Solent area) and build up to maybe a cross channel. I'd love to do a Scuttlebutt cruise, maybe next year if I don't prove to be too much of a danger to shipping :ambivalence:

I'm fairly handy with electrics and should be able to cope with basic engine stuff (overhauled Mk2 Cortina engines in my youth). I'm looking forward to overhauling my first winch :encouragement:

Any advice gratefully received.
 
Centaur ought to be a pretty good choice :encouragement:

The notorious issues with them are droopy headlinings (the foam backing falls apart and the vinyl facing dangles inwards like a badly-erected tent) and inadequate keel reinforcing. The latter will have been repaired in most cases but you should check that yours didn't miss out (sure someone will be along soon to describe what to look for). The former is obviously not critical, is unpleasant to fix properly, but can be worked round in a number of ways - and maybe yours is already done.

Original engine, or already been replaced? Are the sails misshapen bags or still have some life left in them?

Pete
 
Keels and engine are the two main features. The old Volvo engines can get past economical repair. Don't forget the boat is about forty years old and will be wearing out. Electrical wiring, bunk cushions, rigging, water tank etc. have they been upgraded or will they need renewing?
How much is the boat? Centaurs have come down in price over recent years but some people are still asking silly money. If it has been well maintained and is a reasonable price then go for it, otherwise it needs to be cheap so that you can afford to do any work needed.
Have a look on the a Westerly owner's site, there is a lot of info there. Try to get someone to look at it with you, this forum or the WOA might get you a contact, I live too far away. You could even think about having a proper survey. The last thing you want to do is to pay top dollar for a boat that turns out to need a lot of work!
 
Get someone who knows a bit about big boats to come and look over it for you. I'm sure there are people on here that would do it for a case of beer.
 
I agree, check if the keels are reinforced, should be easy to spot; but if in doubt take a Centaur present or ex-owner with you.

As said before, a new engine really is required by now, even on low - £6K upwards - boats.

A good check on all boats is to lay down and look up the mainsail groove; slight bends through poor rigging setup are fine, but distinct kinks are a no-no, new mast ! Bad news but still nowhere as much as a new engine and a helluva lot easier to order & fit !

Forget any headlining issues, they can be sorted later. keel reinforcing - though can be done by a decent grp guy easily - and engine are important. :).

A survey will probably be required by your insurers, so it makes sense to have it done before purchase.

Surveyors' competence and quotes vary wildly, so ask around; clubs are possibl a better bet than yards & marinas, who might well have their own pet srveyor.

Also there are various grades of survey from insurance check / valuation to a masthead to keel really thorough job, with prices accordingly.
 
yachtailsa said:
Get and read this http://www.amazon.co.uk/Inspecting-...tmm_pap_title_0?ie=UTF8&qid=1414748763&sr=1-6 - Don Casey is the man.

Then once you've bought the boat (because it's probably a brilliant little bit of kit that you'll love) get "This Old Boat" by the same author. Read that too.
Click to expand...

buying the book is a good idea

taking a knowledgeable sailor with you is also a good idea

I have never used a yacht surveyor

in my opinion they are a bit like house surveyors - there to value the item for the insurance companies

I have read lots of surveyors reports and they all duck from repsonsibility for anything that might fail in the future, they hedge every comment made

"the engine appears to run well and has been adequatly maintained"

"No signs of keel weakness (but I did not look very closely)

the rigging was inspected with bincolulars and appears acceptable

at the price point you are at looking at most insurance companies do not require a full survey

I have only had third party for the past seven years

I have not made a claim yet nor had to undertake any accident damage to my own boat

Dylan
 
dylanwinter said:
I guess I have not seen a good one yet then

certainly not seen one that actually mentions anything that I cannot see with my own eyes

utter waste of money on anything under 10K

D
Click to expand...

I think there can be value in them if you don't know boats well and don't have experience of owning one. You are effectively renting someone who does know boats. But if you have access to a friend that knows boats as well a surveyor, then you might be able to get it for free. You just miss out on the possibility of suing their insurance if they got it wrong in a provable way.

There is nothing mystical in the survey process - just someone with good technical knowledge of their subject.
 
yachtailsa said:
I think there can be value in them if you don't know boats well and don't have experience of owning one. You are effectively renting someone who does know boats. But if you have access to a friend that knows boats as well, then you might be able to get it for free. You just miss out on the possibility of suing their insurance if they got it wrong in a provable way.
Click to expand...

if you read the reports they are scattered l slippery little qualifying statements drawn up by lawyers to make them hard to take take to court.

lI would ove to hear of some cases where surveyors have been successfully taken to court over problems on under 10K boats.

the first thing that the OP will learn about becoming a yachtsmen is that he is suddenly moving in a world where money flows more easily than anywhere else apart from the world of horses

brokers, surveyors, riggers, engineers, yards, marinas are generally working in an environment where many of their clients are astonishingly wealthy

many are far from being price sensitive.

so you have to DIY or dig deep

D
 
Last edited:
dylanwinter said:
if you read the reports they are scattered l slippery little qualifying statements drawn up by lawyers to make them hard to take take to court.

lI would ove to hear of some cases where surveyors have been successfully taken to court over problems on under 10K boats.

the first thing that the OP will learn about becoming a yachtsmen is that he is suddenly moving in a world where money flows more easily than anywhere else apart from the world of horses

brokers, surveyors, riggers, engineers, yards, marinas are generally working in an environment where many of their clients are astonishingly wealthy

so you have to DIY or dig deep

D
Click to expand...

Yup, as it says in the front of one of the Don Casey books...

"A boat is a hole in the sea, surrounded by wood or fibreglass, into which you pour money". I had that printed on a T-Shirt after my last boat. I'm being a lot more careful with this one (he says despite just buying £90 of Iroko).
 
dylanwinter said:
if you read the reports they are scattered l slippery little qualifying statements drawn up by lawyers to make them hard to take take to court.

lI would ove to hear of some cases where surveyors have been successfully taken to court over problems on under 10K boats.

the first thing that the OP will learn about becoming a yachtsmen is that he is suddenly moving in a world where money flows more easily than anywhere else apart from the world of horses

brokers, surveyors, riggers, engineers, yards, marinas are generally working in an environment where many of their clients are astonishingly wealthy

many are far from being price sensitive.

so you have to DIY or dig deep

D
Click to expand...

Astonishingly wealthy I ain't. I am readying the toolkit as we speak :eek:

Thanks all.
 
dylanwinter said:
lI would ove to hear of some cases where surveyors have been successfully taken to court over problems on under 10K boats.


D
Click to expand...
You are probably right about under £10k boats from a liability point of view. The sums at risk are small so having a survey to have somebody to "blame" when an old boat falls apart is rather a waste. On the other hand if you do not know what you are looking for, paying an expert to check it out for you and at least tell you not to buy is perhaps money well spent.

Obviously as the value of the boat rises and its complexity increases so the potential value of a survey rises.
 
The obvious value of a survey for a cheaper boat and a new owner is that potential faults which may not be obvious to you but could be dangerous can be identified. A knowledgeable friend would suffice for this, but how well do you know your friend and how can you evaluate his knowledge? It's not really an accountability issue at your/my end of the market, but you don't want to be offshore before you find a bodged repair that is letting go.

Once you have bought the boat I would recommend finding a good yard which is 'tuned in' to the needs of lower budget sailors. There may be times when you need repairs done which go beyond your ability and experience; there are yards around which will do good work at costs which are at least bearable rather than requiring a second mortgage.
 
On a 1970 Centaur you will find that the aft lowers go towards the centre top of the front 'window'. Not a good place and it leads to leaks. Solution is either to move them aft to a point between the two large 'windows' (as seen on Centaurs after 1976) or else to fit a reinforcement on the inside that will take the strain to below the opening.

More details about how to do this may be found on the Yahoo Group for Westerly owners. There you will find much valuable information, including how to replace the drooping headliner with panels. I used to visit regularly when I had CR1275. My photos are in the file 'CYANO' but there are hundreds of others.

Don't worry too much about handling; the Centaur will take care of you. (Had Cyano for fourteen years).

Fair Winds!
 
I can't believe no-one has made the obvious connection between this thread - dylan - centaur for sale? Or am I behind the curve??!!
 
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