Weapons on board

[Skylark]

Why scary on a range?

Pete

I work within automotive engineering and used to be a regular traveller to California. It always amazed me just how many of my colleagues owned firearms and regularly visited the ranges to shoot. To a man, they all felt that they could use one to protect their homes and family.

I can't recall what I've used, one large and one small handgun. Having never been exposed to such a killing tool before I guess the thought of its primary purpose was a little disconcerting.

The larger of the two was quite evidently a powerful weapon and if it hit its target, it would cause destruction and or death. That's not an easy concept to grasp. The smell of gsr on my hand stayed for a few days and was a reminder of just how easy it would have been to extinguish life.

I don't mind admitting that it was not a pleasant experience.

Leave it to those who have made the choice and have the training and experience to use firearms.

 

[whipper_snapper]

How about the innocents involved?

Innocents ? Which ones ? Are the kids of a Somali thug guilty of something other than being born into a post apocalyptic world ?

Seriously, I am not defending piracy, just trying to provoke a slightly shifted point of view.

 

[Searush]

Innocents ? Which ones ? Are the kids of a Somali thug guilty of something other than being born into a post apocalyptic world ?

Seriously, I am not defending piracy, just trying to provoke a slightly shifted point of view.

It seems to be very difficult to get people born & raised in relative luxury - with food on the table, hot & cold water on tap, warm clothes & home, excellent electronic entertainments & easy fast transport always to hand - to realise that life is a little different elsewhere. It seems to affect their perspective & judgement, especially of others less fortunate & without the opportunities we have had.

Addendum:
Imagine a very rich guy looking at us & thinking he woldn't like to live our life without servants, rachorses, superyacht & fleet of fancy cars. Therefore our lives are not worth living & it wouldn't matter if he shot a few of us if he thought we threatened his lifestyle in some way. Does that help the perspective?

 

[Seajet]

It seems to be very difficult to get people born & raised in relative luxury - with food on the table, hot & cold water on tap, warm clothes & home, excellent electronic entertainments & easy fast transport always to hand - to realise that life is a little different elsewhere. It seems to affect their perspective & judgement, especially of others less fortunate & without the opportunities we have had.

Addendum:
Imagine a very rich guy looking at us & thinking he woldn't like to live our life without servants, rachorses, superyacht & fleet of fancy cars. Therefore our lives are not worth living & it wouldn't matter if he shot a few of us if he thought we threatened his lifestyle in some way. Does that help the perspective?

Not really, Searush;

just 'walk softly and carry a big stick / gun !'

 

[Heckler]

One snag which I don't see mentioned is that the pirates also carry Rocket Propelled Grenades - RPG's - which use shaped charge warheads, able to knock out most tanks or blow rather undesired holes in ships let alone yachts !

If I was daft enough to venture into such areas, I might be keen on a sniper rifle and / or an AK-47...

In the meantime flares will probably deter the average miscreant !

Ive told the story on another thread, someone I know, in charge of a boat off west africa, approached by an armed skiff, let the ex special forces loose on them with a couple of gimpies, he was that mad that he sought and got a 9mm auto off one of them and was popping off at them. They soon fecked off and havent been bothered them since!
Interestingly, call me dave is now going to allow british merchant men to carry arms, with even Guapa supporting this with his statistics. Wave a bigger gun at the feckers and they soon back off!
Stu

 

[Heckler]

It seems to be very difficult to get people born & raised in relative luxury - with food on the table, hot & cold water on tap, warm clothes & home, excellent electronic entertainments & easy fast transport always to hand - to realise that life is a little different elsewhere. It seems to affect their perspective & judgement, especially of others less fortunate & without the opportunities we have had.

Addendum:
Imagine a very rich guy looking at us & thinking he woldn't like to live our life without servants, rachorses, superyacht & fleet of fancy cars. Therefore our lives are not worth living & it wouldn't matter if he shot a few of us if he thought we threatened his lifestyle in some way. Does that help the perspective?

Steve,
I lived and worked for a very long time in Africa. Life was cheap, morals were different to ours. Taking a life didnt mean very much. Most of the guys i worked with still believed in witch doctors and that sort of thing still surfaces today where children are murdered for their body parts to be used in witch doctory. Bush meat is still sort after even though it is thought that eating the nearest mammal to us causes the crossover of viruses from the animal kingdom to humans.
Consider reading the Chandlers book to get an idea of the way the mind works in a third world country. Morals, none, compassionate no! Would any of us contemplate bashing a helpless woman in the face with an AK47 stock? A different mindset where women are inferior and the men act like children, think Lord of the Rings. And that is normal!
Stu

 

[whipper_snapper]

Steve,
I lived and worked for a very long time in Africa. Life was cheap, morals were different to ours. Taking a life didnt mean very much. Most of the guys i worked with still believed in witch doctors and that sort of thing still surfaces today where children are murdered for their body parts to be used in witch doctory. Bush meat is still sort after even though it is thought that eating the nearest mammal to us causes the crossover of viruses from the animal kingdom to humans.

I would be banned if I gave that the response it deserves.

 

[Supine Being]

I wonder, in reality, how practical voyaging with firearms is for a yacht crew. As I understand it (although I'm no expert and could be wrong) you are obliged to check your weapons in at your port of arrival in pretty much all countries, and then you must return to the same port collect them on leaving that country's waters. That could be inconvenient in some countries and all but impossible in others. Imagine a east-west circumnavigation via Indonesia. If you intend to see a little of the country, it's a looooong way back to your port of entry assuming you check-in somewhere easterly. If you don't declare it to customs and they happen to find it, you're looking at a decent stretch in a foreign jail.

It also seems to me that the chances of actually hitting the target from a distance in a rolling, pitching sea from one small boat to a target in another is slim. Arming doesn't seem like a workable tactic for yotties right now as far as I can see.

 

[Poignard]

. . . Arming doesn't seem like a workable tactic for yotties right now as far as I can see.

I'm sure you are right, however this is a perennial topic on here, giving the forum's nutters a nice warm feeling in their loins as they fantasise about machine-gunning fuzzy-wuzzies.

Personally, I think I would be more scared of them than of the pirates.

 

[RichardS]

Consider reading the Chandlers book to get an idea of the way the mind works in a third world country. Morals, none, compassionate no! Would any of us contemplate bashing a helpless woman in the face with an AK47 stock?

I've just finished the Chandler's book and I don't think that is a fair representation.

The pirate leader, Buggas, was clearly a thug with an AK and very few redeeming features but several of the other pirates showed compassion and humanity on occasions and, over the 12 months of captivity, there were very few instances of deliberate aggression or humiliation other than the imprisonment itself.

Richard

 

[nimbusgb]

A different mindset where women are inferior and the men act like children, think Lord of the Rings. And that is normal!
Stu

I think you meant Lord of the Flies.

Wave a bigger gun at the feckers and they soon back off!

Last year and again this year pirates have exchanged rounds with naval vessels. AK47, 9mm and RPG's against a modern naval vessel is plain lunacy but they still do it. What chance a yottie with anything remotely practical like a shotgun, AK47 or even a high powered rifle?

I think you will find that that the change in the law is aimed at merchant shipping and that if you got found holding weapons as a UK cruising yacht you would find yourself on the far side of any law.

It is very difficult for people from Europe and the US to comprehend just how different life is in Africa and we tend to judge people by a standard that just simply does not equate to that continent. When everyone in Africa has a National Health service, Social security, an education, a police service and all the other trappings of 'civilisation' then perhaps we can expect a different set of morals but in the current situation what surprises me is that there isn't more rampant bloodshed on the continent.

As has been eluded to in this thread and others, you can't keep dangling the whole western dream in front of people, not deliver it and then expect them to sit quietly. Dangle a steak in front of the family labrador long enough and eventually it'll take a bite at it whether your fingers are in the way or not

 

[Seajet]

I think you meant Lord of the Flies.



Last year and again this year pirates have exchanged rounds with naval vessels. AK47, 9mm and RPG's against a modern naval vessel is plain lunacy but they still do it. What chance a yottie with anything remotely practical like a shotgun, AK47 or even a high powered rifle?

I think you will find that that the change in the law is aimed at merchant shipping and that if you got found holding weapons as a UK cruising yacht you would find yourself on the far side of any law.

It is very difficult for people from Europe and the US to comprehend just how different life is in Africa and we tend to judge people by a standard that just simply does not equate to that continent. When everyone in Africa has a National Health service, Social security, an education, a police service and all the other trappings of 'civilisation' then perhaps we can expect a different set of morals but in the current situation what surprises me is that there isn't more rampant bloodshed on the continent.

As has been eluded to in this thread and others, you can't keep dangling the whole western dream in front of people, not deliver it and then expect them to sit quietly. Dangle a steak in front of the family labrador long enough and eventually it'll take a bite at it whether your fingers are in the way or not

Well said !

I was going to mention selling Hawk aircraft to Kenya, and our reckoning the camouflage paint scheme was just to merge in with the forests when they crashed, but for now I'll put up with being moderately armed...

 

[prv]

Having never been exposed to such a killing tool before I guess the thought of its primary purpose was a little disconcerting.

Ah, I understand.

For me, having started shooting at 14 (and with an air pistol at about 8) a firearm was only ever a tool for punching holes in paper with great (and interestingly challenging) precision. The use to which a bunch of gung-ho Americans might or might not put a similar tool never seemed like it had any relevance to us.

I can see how being introduced to shooting by people who had bought weapons with the express intention of killing somebody might promote rather different feelings.

Pete

 

[Fr J Hackett]

The point that seems to be missing in these posts is that "we" are not dealing with deprived hungry fishermen other than they are being manipulated by sophisticated criminals / terrorists and are caught up in the crossfire. Untill the civil wars in the horn of Africa are sorted out and the area stabillised the problem will not go away because the foot soldiers that man the boats are 10 a penny and will fill the gaps left by those that don't come home. How many here really think it is down to fishermen living even in the good times at a subsistance level that are demanding and negotiating for million dollar ransoms Wake up the best we can do is protect our and other merchant fleets as best we can and that certainly means armed guards as for the small sailing vessels don't go there or accept the risk but don't expect governments to rescue you when it goes T*TS UP applies to those merchantmen that don't take the risk seriously surprised that insurance companies and their underwritters continue to insure on the basis of vessels without armed guards.

 

[Heckler]

I would be banned if I gave that the response it deserves.

Uhh?
Stu

 

[Heckler]

I think you meant Lord of the Flies.



Last year and again this year pirates have exchanged rounds with naval vessels. AK47, 9mm and RPG's against a modern naval vessel is plain lunacy but they still do it. What chance a yottie with anything remotely practical like a shotgun, AK47 or even a high powered rifle?

I think you will find that that the change in the law is aimed at merchant shipping and that if you got found holding weapons as a UK cruising yacht you would find yourself on the far side of any law.

It is very difficult for people from Europe and the US to comprehend just how different life is in Africa and we tend to judge people by a standard that just simply does not equate to that continent. When everyone in Africa has a National Health service, Social security, an education, a police service and all the other trappings of 'civilisation' then perhaps we can expect a different set of morals but in the current situation what surprises me is that there isn't more rampant bloodshed on the continent.

As has been eluded to in this thread and others, you can't keep dangling the whole western dream in front of people, not deliver it and then expect them to sit quietly. Dangle a steak in front of the family labrador long enough and eventually it'll take a bite at it whether your fingers are in the way or not

I did, mean Lord of the Flies, thanks for the correction, one of the Chandlers makes mention of that fact.
Stu

 

[Mark-1]

It seems to be very difficult to get people born & raised in relative luxury - with food on the table, hot & cold water on tap, warm clothes & home, excellent electronic entertainments & easy fast transport always to hand - to realise that life is a little different elsewhere. It seems to affect their perspective & judgement, especially of others less fortunate & without the opportunities we have had.

Addendum:
Imagine a very rich guy looking at us & thinking he woldn't like to live our life without servants, rachorses, superyacht & fleet of fancy cars. Therefore our lives are not worth living & it wouldn't matter if he shot a few of us if he thought we threatened his lifestyle in some way. Does that help the perspective?

Very well said.

We're all 12 meals away from murder.

 

[Reverend Ludd]

I've just watch an edition of Mighty Ships (my fav show) it was about a Danish Patrol Vessel protecting ships around the Gulf of Aden. Anyway a bunch of pirates (maybe 6 boats) start to attack a freighter, the Dutch move in on one boat and the pirates hold their hands up. They are told to throw their weapons overboard, while they do this the other boats skip town. The story ends with the Navy deciding to let the pirates go with a warning but the pirates engine wont start so they fix it for them and give them a tank of gas.

The second scenario was about the same except the freighter had thrown a petrol bomb in one of the boats. Along come the Navy in time to rescue the pirates and bring them on board (they will then transfer them back to their homeland we are told). Cue Linx gunner firing into burning boat to sink it, not because it's a pirate boat but because it might cause a problem to another boat.

That's the bloody problem, they think we are wusses, I'd be a pirate if I lived there.

I wonder what the outcome might have been if Nelson or one of his contemporaries had come upon such a scene. !!

 

[st599]

Where can one get a .50 cal and some extra strong gaffer tape?

 

[ffiill]

Interesting this same question came upon the US site like this-sailnet.
Very scary where most were totally gung ho about arming theselves to the teeth with weaponary.
Personally I would not choose to be anywhere on board a thin plastic boat facing machine gun fire!
Just keep well clear although as I suggested on the US site the use of Q ships does seem appropriate.They were used to great effect in WW1 against u boat.
They appeared to be unarmed merchantmen but with hidden heavy caliber weaponary and manned by naval personell and Royal Marines.
Some had below deck large caliber guns mounted on hydraulic lifts capable of blowing a submarine out of the water as well as heavy caliber machine guns.
Several as I recall were converted sailing ships which were an easy u boat target at that time.