We Tried to Enter the Fastnet Race

[zoidberg]

Different, yes but more challenging? I’m not sure I’d agree with that. Just getting to the Fastnet start line requires strict compliance with regulations and a successfully executed race qualification schedule that is agreed at the start of the season. Then there’s the business of getting out of the Solent with circa 350 other yachts all trying to do the same thing. Yes, I know they are all supposed to be going roughly the same way but that doesn’t make it any less hairy, especially when 2 handed.

In contrast the Jester challenge has next to no rules or compliance requirements, a comparatively low number of yachts and even the start day (and line) is moveable if you need it to be.

I’ve done a lot of solo sailing and I can assure you that, assuming your boat is setup, offshore solo sailing is much easier (and less depressing) than the equivalent fully crewed.

Hmmm. I came close to quibbling but, after a moment or three, realised we were closer to convergence than contumely. I've competed in the Fastnet Race twice - once winning our class and the class series - so I concur about the thickets of regulations. I've also done my share of scrutineering and could tell tales of 'creative compliance' in this RORC flagship event that would make your hair stand on end.

Beyond that, I've sailed to, from and around that iconic cornerstone on a dozen other occasions - sometimes with convivial and competent companions, sometimes without. It's always a pleasure....

However, I do share your hinted alarm at sharing the far end of the Solent with some 350 boats stuffed full of other hopefuls - plus, of course, another 350-odd gawper boats - many of which would be picked off early by the sneaky ebbtide spewing fanwise across the Shingles bank, on a fast-falling tide, and many more which would head close inshore towards the bright lights of Swanage, there to get stuck for many hours, kedging. 'Whitebait'.....

Certainly, the looming chaos close to Hurst has made it seem swifter, and certainly less stressful, to make the Start, then do a 180, going round Wight the other way and thus out into the Channel. I do believe some routeing software has, from time to time, shown that to be the gain-line to take.....

For years I could but marvel, as do our good friends the Irish, at the spectacle every few years of several hundred Brit yotties leaving the safety of the Solent, charging down-channel and all the way across - cold, wet and hungry - to the Fastnet Light and then, just when they get within sniffing distance of some of the best pubs in Christendom, they just turn around and head all the way back again!

At least the Jesters have the good sense to drop in for a pint.

 

[Walther]

I’ve done a lot of solo sailing and I can assure you that, assuming your boat is setup, offshore solo sailing is much easier (and less depressing) than the equivalent fully crewed.

 

[Boo2]

...I’ve done a lot of solo sailing and I can assure you that, assuming your boat is setup, offshore solo sailing is much easier (and less depressing) than the equivalent fully crewed.

In what way, Ninjod ?

Boo2

 

[ninjod]

In what way, Ninjod ?

Boo2

I precursor this with “in my experience as a skipper...” and accept that others may well have had a much better time of it however,

Before you’re even on the water, for say a crew of 6, you’ve got to have a potentials list of at least 10. You’ve got to ensure amongst said 10 you’ve got all the shore based training sorted. You’ve got to make sure there are no health issues, no personality issues or other sensitivities and that all are capable of spending time with each other in a confined space. If you’ve a mixed gender list of 10 then the checking of sensitivities will probably indirectly extend to partners/wives/husbands of said 10.

On the water training, start of season. Scheduling sessions around many diaries and making sure you’ve got redundancy in specific roles. It’s like herding cats.

Season starts, it’s all going well and your foredeck stuffs themselves while cycling. You go to your backup list to fill a spot and your backup (not unreasonably) took another ride because they were your backup.

Sigh

In contrast the biggest hassle in solo racing is finding insurance cover. After that you’ve nobody to blame but yourself.

 

[Lightwave395]

I precursor this with “in my experience as a skipper...” and accept that others may well have had a much better time of it however,

Before you’re even on the water, for say a crew of 6, you’ve got to have a potentials list of at least 10. You’ve got to ensure amongst said 10 you’ve got all the shore based training sorted. You’ve got to make sure there are no health issues, no personality issues or other sensitivities and that all are capable of spending time with each other in a confined space. If you’ve a mixed gender list of 10 then the checking of sensitivities will probably indirectly extend to partners/wives/husbands of said 10.

On the water training, start of season. Scheduling sessions around many diaries and making sure you’ve got redundancy in specific roles. It’s like herding cats.

Season starts, it’s all going well and your foredeck stuffs themselves while cycling. You go to your backup list to fill a spot and your backup (not unreasonably) took another ride because they were your backup.

Sigh

In contrast the biggest hassle in solo racing is finding insurance cover. After that you’ve nobody to blame but yourself.

+1, or double handed

 

[Motor_Sailor]

. . . and accept that others may well have had a much better time of it however . . .

Not me, I agree entirely. Eventually I simply got tired of spending so much time organising heavily subsidised holidays for others.

I would remember back to the days when I was crew on a renown IOR 2 tonner in the 70s and the pride and commitment I showed to 'keep my place'. The crew chief was the owner/skipper's girlfriend and one word from her, and everyone seemed to instantly do whatever was asked from any maintenance to shopping, to route planning. On some offshore races we took slightly less crew than round the cans, so the fight to 'make the cut' felt intense.

I don't know whether these days it's the advent of 'pay and play' school boats, or simply more boats available and less crew, but finding good crew, who were prepared to commit, and to practise in the off season and help out with the boat, took years. Then my headsail trimmer went off to university and bowman was posted abroad and the boat went up for sale a few days later.

I was then invited to do a distant, overseas event that involved shipping a boat out. It was a group of about five boat owners and some partners, who all wanted to do the event but couldn't justify all taking their own boats. What an amazing couple of weeks - all committed, all contributing and all really understanding what it took to get a boat to the start line, so couldn't do more to help at every opportunity.

 

[savageseadog]

I spoke to RORC yesterday and the entry included about 240 RORC member skippered boats leaving about 100 odd places for non RORC entries.

The explanation regarding the Sea School and charter boats is that the entrants are presumably RORC members.

We're not far down the waiting list so every chance we'll get a place. We did 2013 BTW.

 

[Walther]

Thank you for reporting back.

So, it's now clear that sea school boats with paying crew do not in fact receive any precedence over purely amateur entries. Both types of vessels are treated equally, and it's up to their respective skippers whether they want to belong to the RORC and qualify for priority.

Before you’re even on the water, for say a crew of 6, you’ve got to have a potentials list of at least 10. You’ve got to ensure amongst said 10 you’ve got all the shore based training sorted....

On the water training, start of season. Scheduling sessions around many diaries and making sure you’ve got redundancy in specific roles. It’s like herding cats.

Season starts, it’s all going well and your foredeck stuffs themselves while cycling. You go to your backup list to fill a spot and your backup (not unreasonably) took another ride because they were your backup.

The above rings true.

Having seen it from the other side, I can say that one thing many otherwise excellent skippers get badly wrong is crew communications. Too many neglect emails, don't return telephone calls or texts, and (worst of all) cancel long-scheduled races or practices at the last minute.

Being thoughtless and self-absorbed is part of the human condition; but if one is in a leadership role - particularly when dealing with volunteers who have plenty of other options for their precious leisure time - it's a luxury one can ill-afford. No one likes being taken for granted, and that applies equally to owners and crew.

If a skipper is too busy to maintain regular and timely communications with their crew, I strongly suggest that they delegate that task to an appointed crew boss.

I agree entirely. Eventually I simply got tired of spending so much time organising heavily subsidised holidays for others.

We all occasionally post glib, throwaway remarks, so perhaps the above doesn't reflect your actual considered opinion.

If it does accurately reflect your view of a crew's contribution, I'm not surprised that you had difficulty finding and retaining committed people to help you achieve your racing goals.

 

[flaming]

If it does accurately reflect your view of a crew's contribution, I'm not surprised that you had difficulty finding and retaining committed people to help you achieve your racing goals.

I agree. I do all the crew admin for the boat I race on. I am not the owner. I'm absolutely certain that had we not taken the crew admin off the owner shortly after he bought the boat he would have quit a long time ago.
But it's getting easier and easier to get crew. There are now some really good crew finding facebook groups. The Solent one has over 7,000 members. Every add looking for crew gets responses. I've picked up a mastman on less than 12 hours notice before, and I have put an add out for crew and had enough responses to fill 2 boats. For sure a lot of the people who reply are just starting out, and will need bringing on, but you also get very experienced people. 4 of my very key people on the boat now we first came across after a post on that facebook group. My issue this season is finding enough sailing to keep my crew pool happy, not finding enough sailors...
And crew comms is a piece of cake now too.
I just reconfirm people at periods through the season - so for example after the spring series I'll send an email out saying "Thanks to everyone that sailed in the spring series, here is the calendar for the rest of the season with who I think is doing which events, if I've got anything wrong let me know". Takes literally 5 minutes, and if someone then says "oh, actually I can't do that week" I've got time to find someone else. Then in the week before the next race I create a whatsapp group for all the crew and communicate details like who is sleeping on the boat, who's on sandwich duty, and if we are going out for a meal. I highly recommend doing this, especially if you have new people on the boat as it creates a sense of "crew" with a bit of banter about (for example) bad sandwich making skills before the event.

Overall I think I've probably spent as long typing this as I normally do organising a weekend's racing.

 

[rszemeti]

Oh wait, is this the thread where the guy refuses to join the RORC and then complains about the RORC members getting first dibs in their race entries?

Oh great .. I'd heard about this thread, let me get my popcorn ...

 

[savageseadog]

Oh wait, is this the thread where the guy refuses to join the RORC and then complains about the RORC members getting first dibs in their race entries?

Oh great .. I'd heard about this thread, let me get my popcorn ...

I didn't complain about RORC members getting priority. Try reading the thread before commenting.

 

[Walther]

I'm unsure exactly what this thread is about!

The OP was upset that the RORC limits Fastnet entries to less than the number of boats that do the Round the Island. Perhaps that is/was his real complaint.

Then there was this:

One feature of the entry list is Sea School boats with paying crew. Should they take precedence over purely amateur entries?

Which IMHO was misleading and unnecessary inflammatory. It's really no different from saying: "One feature of the entry list is foreign-flagged yachts. Should they take precedence over British entries?" To which the (same) answer is: they don't.

 

[savageseadog]

I'm unsure exactly what this thread is about!

The OP was upset that the RORC limits Fastnet entries to less than the number of boats that do the Round the Island. Perhaps that is/was his real complaint.

Then there was this:

Which IMHO was misleading and unnecessary inflammatory. It's really no different from saying: "One feature of the entry list is foreign-flagged yachts. Should they take precedence over British entries?" To which the (same) answer is: they don't.

It's inflammatory to those that want to be inflamed.

My point is that the allowed entry is very small.

 

[dunedin]

It's inflammatory to those that want to be inflamed.

My point is that the allowed entry is very small.

A club organises a race. All the club members who want to race are able to do so. Seems fair.

They kindly offer to let some non members join in their race. This is a privilege not a right. And in limited numbers. Again seems fair.

If competing in the race, then joining the club is good value (as a wise poster noted earlier). And if want to be sure of getting a place in the club’s race, being a member will achieve this. Seems fair.

If not prepared to join the club, won’t get the benefits. (Sounds familiar - might get moved to another place ;-)

 

[savageseadog]

My advise if you want to do Fastnet is join RORC. Although the membership is £350 you do get discounts on all the races which in 2017 was £180 on Fastnet. Then this year you get £35 off per other race. You anyway need to do a few races to get your 300miles and I would advise to plan to do more as in 2017 boats with less miles were dropping out. So the net cost is probably less than £100.
You can also take your nearest and dearest for a weekend at the London clubhouse and earn a few brownie points.

It's not just £350, there's a joining fee of about £17. It's not possible to join after the opening date and jump the queue anyway.

 

[rszemeti]

A whole £17?

 

[Walther]

A club organises a race. All the club members who want to race are able to do so. Seems fair.

They kindly offer to let some non-members join in their race. This is a privilege not a right. And in limited numbers. Again seems fair.

If competing in the race, then joining the club is good value (as a wise poster noted earlier). And if want to be sure of getting a place in the club’s race, being a member will achieve this. Seems fair.

Well said. :encouragement:

The OP has effectively conceded that the only purpose of this thread is to carp about the perceived unfairness of paying a trivial amount to obtain the privilege he desires. The mind boggles.

 

[savageseadog]

A whole £17?

£175 not £17

Well said. :encouragement:

The OP has effectively conceded that the only purpose of this thread is to carp about the perceived unfairness of paying a trivial amount to obtain the privilege he desires. The mind boggles.

Whatever. It might be a trivial amount of money in your view to enter the race or join RORC ( It's definitely more to do both) but it isn't trivial to me.

 

[Kukri]

£175 not £17

Whatever. It might be a trivial amount of money in your view to enter the race or join RORC ( It's definitely more to do both) but it isn't trivial to me.

Time for one of my favourite sailing lines.

“If you can’t afford to spend £4,000 a year on this sport (offshore racing) you shouldn’t be in it!

Don Pye, as in “Holman and”, bar of WMYC, 1972.

I took his advice and confined my offshore racing to OPBs.

 

[ckris]

There is a more interesting underlying point here. Whilst a lot of club sailing and smaller events are struggling for numbers, the Fastnet is fairly unique as a flagship "bucket list" event that is phenomenally successful and having no problems getting entries (4 and a bit minutes for the entries to be filled!). RORC have done well to build an iconic franchise.....but they do seem to be cashing in. In 2009 entry fee was £405, 2019 it is £758. A real 40% increase after inflation. We have done the last 7 Fastnets and make sure we get our entry in the first minute they are opened, but if it we end up having to join RORC to get a place then that is effectively an extra £300-400 on entry cost ( you get a chunk back in race fee discounts in a Fastnet year but on the non-Fastnet year I am paying for a membership I am unlikely to use).

I am torn on this, on one hand I think good on them, they have built a great event and hardly blame them for finding a price the market can bear (as evidenced by the entry numbers). On the other hand I do feel vaguely exploited and wonder at what point as an amateur team we will get priced out of the event.