We Tried to Enter the Fastnet Race

[Kukri]

That’s a really good point - it has become “a bucket list event”.

Perhaps part of the more general phenomenon that is summed up in the expression “ the best is the enemy of the good” - people will watch the Premier League but will not turn out for their local side, and people will sooner take part in a Fastnet with no hope at all of placing, rather than do a club race with a realistic chance of a place.

Of course in any yacht race there will be another boat at about our own level, and things resolve into a private race, but that applies in the club race as well as in the Fastnet.

 

[Resolution]

There is a more interesting underlying point here. Whilst a lot of club sailing and smaller events are struggling for numbers, the Fastnet is fairly unique as a flagship "bucket list" event that is phenomenally successful and having no problems getting entries (4 and a bit minutes for the entries to be filled!). RORC have done well to build an iconic franchise.....but they do seem to be cashing in. In 2009 entry fee was £405, 2019 it is £758. A real 40% increase after inflation. We have done the last 7 Fastnets and make sure we get our entry in the first minute they are opened, but if it we end up having to join RORC to get a place then that is effectively an extra £300-400 on entry cost ( you get a chunk back in race fee discounts in a Fastnet year but on the non-Fastnet year I am paying for a membership I am unlikely to use).

I am torn on this, on one hand I think good on them, they have built a great event and hardly blame them for finding a price the market can bear (as evidenced by the entry numbers). On the other hand I do feel vaguely exploited and wonder at what point as an amateur team we will get priced out of the event.

Chris
Try to value the event on a cost per crew member per hour of the "experience". Then ask them what else they can do for this rate that is half as exciting / enjoyable/ downright uncomfortable?:encouragement:

 

[ckris]

...sorry to reply to my own post but have been mulling it over. We bought our Sigma 38 15 years ago expecting to keep it for a few years to go cruising. In the first 2 years we decided to give a few racing events a go and loved it. We have since sailed hundreds of races both inshore and offshore, I doubt many amateur crews on a similar size boat have competed in as many events as we have (and we cruise the boat just as much as we race). But in that first year or so if the Fastnet and Cowes Week had been double the cost I honestly think we would have gone 'meuh' and not bothered. We would have cruised the boat for a few years and probably sold it a decade ago.The trickle down would have been one less entry in a whole load of JOG, Hamble Winter Series, Spring series, odd race weeks and club races over the last 15 years. How many people coming into yacht racing in 2019 are taking the opposite path to us and not bothering? I do think RORC and other premium events have a wider impact on the health of our sport than perhaps is obvious at first glance....

 

[savageseadog]

There is a more interesting underlying point here. Whilst a lot of club sailing and smaller events are struggling for numbers, the Fastnet is fairly unique as a flagship "bucket list" event that is phenomenally successful and having no problems getting entries (4 and a bit minutes for the entries to be filled!). RORC have done well to build an iconic franchise.....but they do seem to be cashing in. In 2009 entry fee was £405, 2019 it is £758. A real 40% increase after inflation. We have done the last 7 Fastnets and make sure we get our entry in the first minute they are opened, but if it we end up having to join RORC to get a place then that is effectively an extra £300-400 on entry cost ( you get a chunk back in race fee discounts in a Fastnet year but on the non-Fastnet year I am paying for a membership I am unlikely to use).

I am torn on this, on one hand I think good on them, they have built a great event and hardly blame them for finding a price the market can bear (as evidenced by the entry numbers). On the other hand I do feel vaguely exploited and wonder at what point as an amateur team we will get priced out of the event.

You may be making my point for me better than I did.

I think there is a point at which the event morphs into something bigger than the club/organisers. It is the premier British offshore yachting event and it has therefore becomes property of the yachting world at large. It''s a bit like the Grand National, Wimbledon etc which the public feel are public institutions that belong to them.

On the subject of cost, people on here are saying that I'm being tight and unreasonable by not joining RORC. The race is an open event, I'm already a member of a yacht club and don't feel that I should be forced to join another one. When we did the race in 2013 I reckon it cost about £3,000 minimum. That was entry, food, fuel, transport, liferaft, marina fees, some extra ORC/RORC gear. Training was extra plus we had to do 1000 miles of deliveries, 250 miles of it in atrocious weather. If we were South coast based it would have been much easier and cheaper.

 

[Resolution]

...sorry to reply to my own post but have been mulling it over. We bought our Sigma 38 15 years ago expecting to keep it for a few years to go cruising. In the first 2 years we decided to give a few racing events a go and loved it. We have since sailed hundreds of races both inshore and offshore, I doubt many amateur crews on a similar size boat have competed in as many events as we have (and we cruise the boat just as much as we race). But in that first year or so if the Fastnet and Cowes Week had been double the cost I honestly think we would have gone 'meuh' and not bothered. We would have cruised the boat for a few years and probably sold it a decade ago.The trickle down would have been one less entry in a whole load of JOG, Hamble Winter Series, Spring series, odd race weeks and club races over the last 15 years. How many people coming into yacht racing in 2019 are taking the opposite path to us and not bothering? I do think RORC and other premium events have a wider impact on the health of our sport than perhaps is obvious at first glance....

Did you watch that excellent presentation on The Future Of Boating by an RYA lady? Featured in a thread here last month. One of the key points that she made was that the generational changes mean that youngsters today do not wish to restrict themselves to just one activity / sport / hobby. So OWNING a boat is right out. However RENTING a boat for an "experience" could be right in. So maybe the racing sea schools are doing the right thing to encourage youngsters (under 40?) to get out and race without the hassles of ownership. And maybe RORC are sensible in enabling such organisations to have places in the Fastnet.
Peter

 

[Kukri]

Did you watch that excellent presentation on The Future Of Boating by an RYA lady? Featured in a thread here last month. One of the key points that she made was that the generational changes mean that youngsters today do not wish to restrict themselves to just one activity / sport / hobby. So OWNING a boat is right out. However RENTING a boat for an "experience" could be right in. So maybe the racing sea schools are doing the right thing to encourage youngsters (under 40?) to get out and race without the hassles of ownership. And maybe RORC are sensible in enabling such organisations to have places in the Fastnet.
Peter

I did. It had the effect of persuading the committee of my club that a club owned fleet may be in our future, starting with keelboats, perhaps progressing to offshore racers, a decision which I endorse.

However, I have two thoughts

1. The Fastnet by definition is a race for well prepared bigger boats. I don’t myself much fancy spending time in an apres ski atmosphere full of Hooray Henries who have just “done the Fastnet” on a school boat and are now off for their next adventure holiday, and I’d have a lot of sympathy for an owner who had entered his own boat and had to endure it.

2. Nostalgia I know, but didn’t we all have more fun when we were charging around in quarter tonners?
I

 

[Resolution]

2. Nostalgia I know, but didn’t we all have more fun when we were charging around in quarter tonners?
I

Couldn't get more bang for your buck than in a Sigma 33.

 

[Kukri]

Couldn't get more bang for your buck than in a Sigma 33.

Agreed. Particularly if as in my case the Sigma 33 was owned by a syndicate of which I was not a member but who regularly invited me along!

 

[lw395]

There is a more interesting underlying point here. Whilst a lot of club sailing and smaller events are struggling for numbers, the Fastnet is fairly unique as a flagship "bucket list" event that is phenomenally successful and having no problems getting entries (4 and a bit minutes for the entries to be filled!). RORC have done well to build an iconic franchise.....but they do seem to be cashing in. In 2009 entry fee was £405, 2019 it is £758. A real 40% increase after inflation. We have done the last 7 Fastnets and make sure we get our entry in the first minute they are opened, but if it we end up having to join RORC to get a place then that is effectively an extra £300-400 on entry cost ( you get a chunk back in race fee discounts in a Fastnet year but on the non-Fastnet year I am paying for a membership I am unlikely to use).

I am torn on this, on one hand I think good on them, they have built a great event and hardly blame them for finding a price the market can bear (as evidenced by the entry numbers). On the other hand I do feel vaguely exploited and wonder at what point as an amateur team we will get priced out of the event.

I'm not doing the Fastnet.
But £758 compares quite well with RTIR interms of what you get?

I think part of what's happening is the pay'n'play operators are making a ton of money out of the Fastnet, and RORC wants its slice. RORC presumably doesn't discriminate between a 10 berth boat where the owner pays for everything and one where the owner is getting £££? a head from bucket listers.

Funny how sponsored events always cost more....

 

[Keen_Ed]

Time for one of my favourite sailing lines.

“If you can’t afford to spend £4,000 a year on this sport (offshore racing) you shouldn’t be in it!

Don Pye, as in “Holman and”, bar of WMYC, 1972.

I took his advice and confined my offshore racing to OPBs.

One guide I’ve heard is that if you’re going to race your boat, you should be able to write a cheque for a new mast without a worry.

 

[lw395]

One guide I’ve heard is that if you’re going to race your boat, you should be able to write a cheque for a new mast without a worry.

If your serious about racing your boat, you can afford a spare boat.
I know racers who like to have that mast before they devote a week to a regatta.

 

[zoidberg]

2. Nostalgia I know, but didn’t we all have more fun when we were charging around in quarter tonners?
I

Hence the new/old Nicholson 55....?

 

[Kukri]

Hence the new/old Nicholson 55....?

Long history of Fastnet entries as a Services boat scoring a free pass. Since I would have to think very hard indeed before writing a cheque for a new mast, her racing career (TCC 1.062) is almost certainly over, but we might contemplate a lesuirely canter round the cans at some point if I can shark up a list of lawless resolutes. The ex boat holds the distinction of a First in Class in the North Sea Race in 1956, after which she wisely retired...

 

[Walther]

I think there is a point at which the event morphs into something bigger than the club/organisers. It is the premier British offshore yachting event and it has therefore becomes property of the yachting world at large. It''s a bit like the Grand National, Wimbledon etc which the public feel are public institutions that belong to them.

When "the yachting world at large", or "the public", are prepared to assume the considerable responsibility and expense of organizing and administering this race, it may then be time for the RORC to cease dictating the terms and conditions of entry. Until then, not.

On the subject of cost, people on here are saying that I'm being tight and unreasonable by not joining RORC.

I for one am not saying that. It's your money and your choice.

I did say that your original post was misleading for implying that preference is given to school boats. That is not the case.

I'm already a member of a yacht club and don't feel that I should be forced to join another one.

Which is fine, because you are not forced to join RORC.

It is helpful to be a member when it comes to securing an entry place, but it is certainly not necessary. I know several people who are not members but have entered their respective boats for this year's edition. And as you've acknowledged, you were able to do the 2013 race in your boat despite not being a member.

When we did the race in 2013 I reckon it cost about £3,000 minimum. That was entry, food, fuel, transport, liferaft, marina fees, some extra ORC/RORC gear. Training was extra plus we had to do 1000 miles of deliveries, 250 miles of it in atrocious weather. If we were South coast based it would have been much easier and cheaper.

Yes. Nobody ever said that offshore racing was inexpensive or easy.

Many people come from all over the world to compete in the Fastnet. Their costs and inconvenience will considerably exceed yours, so perhaps you should count your blessings. Or try taking your boat to race in the Newport-Bermuda, or the Sydney-Hobart, and see how that compares to the Fastnet.

 

[Walther]

Why does sailing so often eat its young?

I don’t myself much fancy spending time in an apres ski atmosphere full of Hooray Henries who have just “done the Fastnet” on a school boat and are now off for their next adventure holiday, and I’d have a lot of sympathy for an owner who had entered his own boat and had to endure it.

Wow.

In the first place, the racers' village at Plymouth is a pleasant enough affair, with an overall atmosphere of low key camaraderie. The sort of loutish, alcohol-fuelled debauchery you reference is a figment of your imagination.

More importantly, most pay-for-play customers have a decent amount of sailing/racing experience when they sign up. Only a very few are novices, and in any case by the time they've completed the various qualifier races even the latter will be well on their way to becoming reasonably competent sailors. In other words, they are just normal people and don't deserve to be sneered at merely because they are not yacht owners.

Our sport is not improved by snobbish contempt towards less experienced or wealthy sailors.

 

[Kukri]

Wow.

I offered some support for your Club’s position, as a non- wealthy non- racing non- member, and some understanding of the other point of view, and I get my head bitten off!

Yes. Nobody ever said that offshore racing was inexpensive or easy. .

Our sport is not improved by snobbish contempt towards less experienced or wealthy sailors. .

Which is it?

 

[zoidberg]

Re: Why does sailing so often eat its young?

the racers' village at Plymouth is a pleasant enough affair....... The sort of loutish, alcohol-fuelled debauchery you reference is a figment of your imagination.

I also could reference that 'sort of loutish, alcohol-fuelled debauchery', but not as a figment of someone's imagination. Rather, it would be several 'figments of memory' recalled from numerous such 'EndExs' at QAB enjoyed over the years. There have been times one could hear the roar of the crowd from the Finish Line at the Breakwater....!

 

[Walther]

Which is it?

No inconsistency.

Offshore racing is expensive: especially for owners, but also for crew. One way or another - writing a cheque, taking sailing courses, contributing sweat equity, etc. - everyone 'pays their dues'. That's not snobbery, it's just recognition of reality.

Consider Montel Fagan-Jordan. He certainly earned his way onto a Fastnet boat, and I have no "sympathy" for an owner compelled to "endure" his company at the finish.

The high cost of sailing is inescapable, but there are many ways in for someone who is willing to make an effort. For some, that means paying for a berth on a well-sorted school boat: which is a valid choice and should not subject those sailors to scorn ('sailing wannabes', 'Hooray Henries', etc.).

 

[lw395]

Re: Why does sailing so often eat its young?

Wow.

In the first place, the racers' village at Plymouth is a pleasant enough affair, with an overall atmosphere of low key camaraderie. The sort of loutish, alcohol-fuelled debauchery you reference is a figment of your imagination.

More importantly, most pay-for-play customers have a decent amount of sailing/racing experience when they sign up. Only a very few are novices, and in any case by the time they've completed the various qualifier races even the latter will be well on their way to becoming reasonably competent sailors. In other words, they are just normal people and don't deserve to be sneered at merely because they are not yacht owners.

Our sport is not improved by snobbish contempt towards less experienced or wealthy sailors.

People who've completed the tick-box mileage and sat on the rail for a Fastnet, occasionally pulling string by numbers can be a very long way from being 'reasonably competent sailors'. I've met bucket listers who I wouldn't trust to get a Mirror around the course.
Equally I know some great racers who race inshore boats or even dinghies, who've chosen to buy a place on a bigger (or just faster!) boat for a one-off experience.

I have lots of great memories of good natured, alcohol-fueled, mildly loutish behaviour from fellow sailors in Plymouth, from various events ranging from student individuals through Fastnet and Round Britain. Isn't that what 'Plymouth' is all about?

 

[rszemeti]

Re: Why does sailing so often eat its young?

Back when I was racing bikes, I could *easily* spend £750 on a weekends racing, without even trying ... £750 to enter the Fastnet is a bargain, and per person, it's not even the price of a decent meal.