We’re buying a new boat !!

[MapisM]

Yes I know I am nitpicking re semantics!

Not nitpicking at all, I'm well aware that my EN is a bit stretched when it comes to debates on somewhat tricky technicalities!
So, thank you for adding a further/better explanation of what I had in mind.
I agree with everything you are saying, of course.

The example that colhel mentioned is also appropriate, BTW.
Essentially along the lines of mine ref. catamarans, but possibly even better because less extreme, and applied to the very same monohull boat.
Of course, the difference made by having a HT or not on a 55' flybridge mobo will never be anywhere near the difference made by the mast of a sailboat, but the principle is exactly the same.

Anywhow, at the end of the day, what I'm really trying to say is that there are valid reasons for either choosing a HT (as I certainly would if I were in the UK) or not (as I probably would if I were in the Med, as I am) on the boat which is the protagonist of this thread.
BUT, the weight/stability/roll difference certainly isn't one of them, because I very much doubt that it would be measurable even with specific instruments...

 

[Bouba]

Not nitpicking at all, I'm well aware that my EN is a bit stretched when it comes to debates on somewhat tricky technicalities!
So, thank you for adding a further/better explanation of what I had in mind.
I agree with everything you are saying, of course.

The example that colhel mentioned is also appropriate, BTW.
Essentially along the lines of mine ref. catamarans, but possibly even better because less extreme, and applied to the very same monohull boat.
Of course, the difference made by having a HT or not on a 55' flybridge mobo will never be anywhere near the difference made by the mast of a sailboat, but the principle is exactly the same.

Anywhow, at the end of the day, what I'm really trying to say is that there are valid reasons for either choosing a HT (as I certainly would if I were in the UK) or not (as I probably would if I were in the Med, as I am) on the boat which is the protagonist of this thread.
BUT, the weight/stability/roll difference certainly isn't one of them, because I very much doubt that it would be measurable even with specific instruments...

Your English is excellent. In fact, the only thing that stretches it is a post from Porto?

 

[MapisM]

Thanks for the flowers, J.
Sometimes I think that the efforts required to understand some posts here in the asylum (not only from Porto, btw) did more to improve my EN than anything I learned at school ever did...

 

[Portofino]

Happy to carry the crap eng colours into battle guys .

I thought we reached a consensus on this particular modal it ruins the aesthetics first and foremost .
For charter that money could be deployed better elsewhere in the financial modal .

I was trying to say at this L a lot of HTs on FB s are in fact a frame with a canvas roll back middle bit .As some sports cruisers btw .
Henry kindly put me right as Priny s is a hard movable lid inside the frame .

So comparing a 55 HT with a canvas Bimini , if itself was basically canvas ( with a frame ) means it’s gonna perish and need replacing anyhow .The framed canvas inside the “HT “ will cost more than a simple Bimini .

How ever the hard sections that open in the priny 55 s HT are low maintenance in theory?
Still as H said he’s still on the OEM after how many years ?So you will not recover the extra £ up front going the HT route from a running perspective.

As for used market ……buy on condition and history and factor in aesthetics .

We all know a blokes got no chance if the wife blurts out “ I don’t like it “
No amount of technical bamboozling is gonna alter that .All that tinternet deep research from the Mr is wasted .

 

[TonyR123]

Well congrats henry on finally choosing a boat! Finding the perfect boat is nigh on impossible, at least under 70 feet it seems to be, so finally finding one you want is a great feeling. I have been debating my next one for 18 months now. I thought this would be a 65ft flybridge, but now I might even be looking at open top 55ft day boats. I have no hope of making a decision in the next 6 months.

As for the hard top. I personally think 55ft is probably the min size for getting a hard top. For 'convenience' anything over 65ft I would more than likely spec a hard top. Alot of hard tops are carbon fibre now so the weight it adds must be minimal compared to the rest? And as someone said having lots of people on the flybridge will surely impact any pendulum swing far more.

 

[MapisM]

For 'convenience' anything over 65ft I would more than likely spec a hard top.

I would agree that under 65' or so, HTs aren't exactly things of beauty, though some builders like Azi and Absolute did a decent job of integrating them also at smaller boat sizes.
But it's the "feeling" of being under an HT that is completely different vs. a bimini.
I would summarize it by saying that a bimini is the best choice if you are planning to use it very rarely, enjoying a completely open flybridge most of the time - which imho can be even nicer than with an open boat.
OTOH, anyone who keeps the bimini on most of the time (regardless of whether due to too much sun or too little) is really missing out something by not having an HT.
Not to mention that HTs (at least in some boats) offer also the possibility to have a full enclosure, that depending on cruising habits can be anywhere from useless to a godsend.

 

[ari]

OTOH, anyone who keeps the bimini on most of the time (regardless of whether due to too much sun or too little) is really missing out something by not having an HT.
Not to mention that HTs (at least in some boats) offer also the possibility to have a full enclosure, that depending on cruising habits can be anywhere from useless to a godsend.

What are they missing out on? Not disagreeing with you, just curious as have had limited exposure to flybridge hardtops. They're a bit more rigid, and if you have the opening section that's quite useful (if you can ignore that they cost the same as a mid range brand new car!). And I can see what you mean about enclosing the flybridge fairly easily, although personally never wanted to do that (if the weather isn't suitable, that's what the saloon and lower helm are for on a flybridge boat in my personal experience).

So left wondering what's the 'really missing out on something'?

 

[Hurricane]

What are they missing out on? Not disagreeing with you, just curious as have had limited exposure to flybridge hardtops. They're a bit more rigid, and if you have the opening section that's quite useful (if you can ignore that they cost the same as a mid range brand new car!). And I can see what you mean about enclosing the flybridge fairly easily, although personally never wanted to do that (if the weather isn't suitable, that's what the saloon and lower helm are for on a flybridge boat in my personal experience).

So left wondering what's the 'really missing out on something'?

I agree with MapisM
It is a PIA taking the Bimini off when we leave the boat.
OK, so during the summer we might leave it on but with these strange Covid times, we don't actually know when we will be returning.
Just removing the cover isn't the only problem.
We always make sure that it is clean when it is put away and that means cleaning all the bird poo off first.
Then, you have to pick your day - making sure that it isn't or hasn't just rained.
And, indeed if it is too windy to take it off.

Of course, you could do as lots of people do and just leave it up exposed to the elements.
We don't and as a result, ours is still in good condition 13 years later.

With a hard top, I would be tempted to have side curtains thus providing protection for the flybridge furniture and instruments etc - also providing extra dry storage space.
This isn't about using the boat with flybridge curtains- if I had a hard top with curtains, they would probably be removed soon after getting to the boat.

I would also fit solar panels to the top of a hard top.
No, not for propulsion - for keeping the batteries topped up - I have already fitted solar panels to the eyebrow which have helped considerably with the boats electrical consumption.
So adding more would be fairly high on my list.

Yep - there are considerable everyday advantages to having a hard top.

 

[Hurricane]

But it's the "feeling" of being under an HT that is completely different vs. a bimini.

Yep P
Do you remember this?

 

[Bouba]

I have seen some hard-tops with the full curtain and have wondered how they attach them. Do you need a mountaineer ?

 

[Bouba]

Yep P
Do you remember this?

View attachment 125984

The people’s faces have melted? I guess that they were lucky not to have been in the sun

 

[Hurricane]

I have seen some hard-tops with the full curtain and have wondered how they attach them. Do you need a mountaineer ?

Do you have to be a mountaineer to attach cockpit curtains?
It is just a matter of designing them correctly (tops fitted with luff track etc)

 

[Hurricane]

The people’s faces have melted? I guess that they were lucky not to have been in the sun

All the pixels are there - just not necessarily in the right place.

 

[Bouba]

Do you have to be a mountaineer to attach cockpit curtains?
It is just a matter of designing them correctly (tops fitted with luff track etc)

There is a difference between curtains that come with a boat and those that you have made?

 

[Hurricane]

There is a difference between curtains that come with a boat and those that you have made?

OK but it doesn't necessarily have to be your own skill.
Take my bimini - I had it professionally made but specified how I wanted it.
The same could be said about having hard top curtains made.
You tell the canvas guy that you want to be able to put them on and take them off without mountaineering!!
It isn't rocket science but I do take your point that some of these boat designers don't really think of the practicalities.

 

[rafiki_]

Interesting debate, however Henry has had many years on his P50 cruising The Solent and south coast, and clearly understands what works for him. I don’t think we will sway his selection.

 

[MapisM]

So left wondering what's the 'really missing out on something'?

It's not so easy to describe actually, but I think Hurricane already nailed it .
BTW, one of the ladies in the pic he posted of MYAG's S/skr Y80 was my wife, with the island in the background which is the place we call home by now.
And aside from having tried several other boats with proper HTs (including a couple with full enclosures and air conditioning inside - no prize for guessing that these were over the Pond), I also have a first hand experience of retrofitting a sort of HT on my old boat ("sort of" because it was a T-top style, with canvas covering a fixed s/steel rigid structure), and it was a game changer with regard to f/b liveability and pleasantness.
Though that was a rather peculiar case, since the boat had an unusually large f/b for her 53 feet, so even if very big, the T-top structure left also an exposed area astern, for sunbathing fans.
Anyway, the crux of the matter is that a flapping bimini above your head (which is what I have in my current boat, mind!) will never give the same "open air living room" feeling.
In fact, I did consider going for another retrofit project, but for reasons connected to the radical differences between the two boats (not in size, the current one being just 3 feet longer, but her f/b is smaller, has a low radar arch, etc.), and also in the type of cruising (8 vs. 20+ kts, most of the time) I didn't go that route yet.
And probably never will, but never say never...

 

[MapisM]

Interesting debate, however Henry has had many years on his P50 cruising The Solent and south coast, and clearly understands what works for him. I don’t think we will sway his selection.

Absolutely!
And if I gave the impression to have tried, trust me, it wasn't my intention.
As with most choices in boats, there's no right or wrong, but it's mostly a matter of personal preference.
If the thoughts that I threw into the debate added anything interesting for henryf, I'm glad I did.
But if not, that's also fine.
Isn't banter the main "raison d'être" of boating forums, at the end of the day?

Besides, I'm sure she will be a great boat regardless.
And rather unlikely as it is, if I'll ever be interested in a Solent tour in the future, I might as well ask him!

 

[rafiki_]

P, you have enough mates on here to enjoy a Solent trip at any time. You might need to bring some Italian sun please?

 

[jrudge]

As an owner of a stabilised boat bear in mind the thing is on 24/7 from dock to dock with no exceptions so if a hard top does or does not impact stability it matters not as the gyro will be on all the time.

My 2p? Get the hard top - at that money it is a no brainer in my view - but we are all different