Waxing?

[Allan]

After polishing our dark blue hull, I normally give it a few coats of wax. I use 3M liquid wax. I would be interested to hear if anyone has any knowledge about what improvement I would get from adding more coats?
Allan

 

[lustyd]

None at all. There’s no such thing as a more coats of wax, you’re just smushing around wax and from coat two you’re removing as much as you’re adding. Because the whole point of buffing is to spread it thinly and evenly over the surface. Better to do the topsides every few months with the wax to protect from UV, and ideally don’t use polish unless there’s a specific reason to do so.

 

[Caer Urfa]

Used one coat of Meguiars for years and happy with it

Meguiar's Marine RV 56 Pure Wax Carnuaba Blend 473ml M5616​

 

[johnalison]

I prefer to use solid wax, chiefly because I am less likely to spill it. Also, it can also make loading the cloth I apply it with a one-hand job and marginally quicker. It has been harder to find solid waxes in the last year or two for some reason. On one occasion it was only when I got home that I saw that the wax contained silicone, in spite of being bought at a respected chandlers.

 

[Concerto]

My local glassfibre repair man recommend Meguir's Flagship Wax. It has UV protection. He says hulls should have 3 coats of wax, but as a release wax he says you need 8 coats. So adding extra coats must make a difference.

 

[Allan]

Many thanks for the replies, despite being contradictory, they are all useful. Under all circumstances I feel a second coat is a good idea as the chances of missing the same bit twice are quite remote. Until 3M stopped making it, I used to prefer hard wax.
Given Concerto's reply, I think I'll stick with my original plan of at least three coats and more on the waterline bow and transom.
Allan

 

[MikeBz]

I’ve used Collinite 885 Fleetwax (a hard wax in a tin) and thought it was very good. Their 920 Boat Cleaner is also very good - a little goes a long way and is very effective.

 

[lustyd]

Under all circumstances I feel a second coat is a good idea as the chances of missing the same bit twice are quite remote.

I do agree with that, and it certainly doesn't contradict what I said. More "coats" just means less scope for missed bits, but it's important to understand that the wax doesn't get thicker or provide more protection. When using as a release agent it's obviously more important to not miss bits, and that'll be behind the 8 coats thing, but realistically wax isn't often used for release much any more as better options are available to spray on.

 

[Thresher]

None at all. There’s no such thing as a more coats of wax, you’re just smushing around wax and from coat two you’re removing as much as you’re adding. Because the whole point of buffing is to spread it thinly and evenly over the surface. Better to do the topsides every few months with the wax to protect from UV, and ideally don’t use polish unless there’s a specific reason to do so.

I'm curious to know why you say not to use polish. How would you prepare the surface before waxing?

 

[lustyd]

I'm curious to know why you say not to use polish. How would you prepare the surface before waxing?

Just wash it. Polish works by removing material and unless there’s damage you’ve no reason to use a cutting compound. Fairy liquid will get it clean, wiping with alcohol such as meths or isopropyl will remove grime without damage. Then you’re ready for protective wax.
Polish is one of the reasons topsides degrade, GRP itself will happily last a hundred years if you keep the UV at bay and don’t mess with it too much.

 

[johnalison]

Just wash it. Polish works by removing material and unless there’s damage you’ve no reason to use a cutting compound. Fairy liquid will get it clean, wiping with alcohol such as meths or isopropyl will remove grime without damage. Then you’re ready for protective wax.
Polish is one of the reasons topsides degrade, GRP itself will happily last a hundred years if you keep the UV at bay and don’t mess with it too much.

I’m still just using a cleaner and wax on my 24 yr old boat.
I should perhaps qualify that by saying that the stern needs more agressive treatment, usually with colour restorer polish before waxing.

 

[PaulRainbow]

I do agree with that, and it certainly doesn't contradict what I said. More "coats" just means less scope for missed bits, but it's important to understand that the wax doesn't get thicker or provide more protection. When using as a release agent it's obviously more important to not miss bits, and that'll be behind the 8 coats thing, but realistically wax isn't often used for release much any more as better options are available to spray on.

Seriously, you need to put 8 coats of wax on a mold in case you miss a bit with the first 7 coats ?

Was doesn't get any thicker if you put more coats on ?

 

[Chiara’s slave]

I thought the OP might have an unwanted body hair problem.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

Lusty has a serious issue if he needs 8 coats.

 

[lustyd]

Seriously, you need to put 8 coats of wax on a mold in case you miss a bit with the first 7 coats ?

Was doesn't get any thicker if you put more coats on ?

I never have but Concerto said that’s the advice he received and it does make sense if you’re trying to do a very good job. I can’t imagine any pros actually doing it, it’s quicker to “fix it in post” than spend longer prepping beyond a certain point.

 

[Concerto]

Just wash it. Polish works by removing material and unless there’s damage you’ve no reason to use a cutting compound. Fairy liquid will get it clean, wiping with alcohol such as meths or isopropyl will remove grime without damage. Then you’re ready for protective wax.
Polish is one of the reasons topsides degrade, GRP itself will happily last a hundred years if you keep the UV at bay and don’t mess with it too much.

Sorry I have to disagree. You are assuming all gel coat is the same as on your boat. Gel coat on hulls before the early 1990's was brushed on, with modern production methods the amount of gel coat was reduced by spraying it, reducing it from 1.5 to 3mm down to 0.5 to 0.75mm. Then different gel coat manufacturers have different grades of gel coat. Some builders used a standard gel coat used for baths and car panel, rather than a UV stable marine grade. My 1980 Westerly Fulmar, along with all Westerlys manufacture from the mid 1970's to mid 1980's, have a non UV stable gel coat made by Ryland which UV makes the hulls go creamy. Over the decades the shine on the hull was lost. However with compounding and polishing the hull has an almost white surface again with a shine. All gel coats will go chalky over the decades, despite regular polishing. Polish does not remove the surface of gel coat, but leaves a thin film of polish. Gradually the film will erode, but never completely, so old polish will build up and will removing to return to pure gel coat.

Fairy Liquid will only remove some dirt and alcohol will remove some of the remnants. Acetone will remove even more. Some boats find the gel coat in regular contact with the water leaves a discoloured line that can be removed with oxalic acid. The discolouration can enter the surface of the gel coat and can only be removed by the chemical reaction caused by the oxalic acid.

GRP will certainly last a century, but the gel coat will never remain the same over this time, especially if you follow lustyd's advice. Most of the comments I have made come from people who have more detailed knowledge than I have. The glassfibre repair man who I know has been working in the industry since leaving school and he is now in his mid 50's. He does the finest work and at times works for all the British builders like Princess, Oyster and even Spirit Yachts. He is in such demand that he does not even have a web site. I feel sure his comments about waxing are more reliable than lustyd's.

 

[stranded]

Polish does not remove the surface of gel coat, but leaves a thin film of polish.

I don’t know if this is true or not, but it does seem to be at odds with everything I have ever read in what until now I have considered reputable sources.

 

[PaulRainbow]

I don’t know if this is true or not, but it does seem to be at odds with everything I have ever read in what until now I have considered reputable sources.

There seems to be some confusion regarding the term "polish". To some "polish" means a compound, to others it means wax.

So some people will polish and wax their boat, others will compound and polish it.

Pretty sure Concerto is in the latter camp, as am i.

 

[PaulRainbow]

I never have but Concerto said that’s the advice he received and it does make sense if you’re trying to do a very good job. I can’t imagine any pros actually doing it, it’s quicker to “fix it in post” than spend longer prepping beyond a certain point.

You missed my points. Putting multiple coats of mold release wax on is not in case you miss a bit, it's to build up the layer of wax.

You also said "it's important to understand that the wax doesn't get thicker or provide more protection." this is therefore incorrect.

 

[lustyd]

There seems to be some confusion regarding the term "polish". To some "polish" means a compound, to others it means wax.

So some people will polish and wax their boat, others will compound and polish it.

Pretty sure Concerto is in the latter camp, as am i.

Yes I'm sure this is part of the misunderstanding. I certainly consider polish something that removes blemished while wax protects.

I also think that in many, many cases, the chalky appearance is UV damaged wax which can be removed with alcohol. Lots of people doing damage to their boats because they assume the gelcoat is knackered. While I agree that older hulls often are, it's unwise to assume all hulls are old and knackered. Blindly following advice that's good for old UV damaged gelcoat will do more harm than good on a newer hull. Appologies to Concerto if he knows more about the OPs boat than I do - it didn't say in the first post so I gave advice that's safe for all.