Water filters

[Artie]

My boat has a unique water supply system. The water is pumped electrically to the galley tap, shower etc (this water tastes OK) but coming from the same storage tank is a smaller tap with a hand pump that supplies water supposedly for drinking and watering down the whisky. Before anyone tells me to stop watering the whisky I should say that my tipple is brandy. This hand pumped water has a Jabsco "Aqua Filta" in the line - the idea was to take out all the bad tastes that may be in the system. Unfortunately this is not the case and there is a strong smell/taste of bad eggs (hudrogen sulphide) in the first pourings of this tap. After flushing the smell/taste goes until the next time it is used. I have changed the filter twice this year with little or no effect.
Is it because there is not enough water going through this side of the system? Is it because the filter is 6 feet away from the outlet tap? I am very close to ripping the system out and replumbing but would like your ideas comments please.

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[stamfordian]

Yukk sounds like you have a bug living in this leg of system or in the tank,I would not drink it!!!.A soultion would be to chlorinate the WHOLE system with chlorination tablets obtainable at a certain PLUMBING outlet,to the instructions on the packet then flush the whole lot ,and then fit a new filter,comercial properties are supposed to do this once per year where drinking /potable water comes from a tank.
hope this helps but needs a good supply of fresh water

<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.arweb.co.uk/argallery/stamfordian>http://www.arweb.co.uk/argallery/stamfordian</A>

 

[Talbot]

I fitted my filter as close as possible to the tap. The water I get through my aqua filter is superb. whilst agree on the cleaning of your system, I would also recommend that you move the filter closer to the tap and replace the pipes from the filter to the tap. err - you didnt say that you had recently changed your filter? I do mine at the beginning of the season, after I have puricleaned the system and flushed a couple of times.

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[hlb]

I have one of those filter thingies to. Cept mine works automatic, just like the rest. When I think on. I some times put it in the whisky, other times I use the normal stuff on the grounds that I have not changed the filter in five years, cant say before that!! Anyway it all seems to taste OK. Maybe the whiskey disinfects it....../forums/images/icons/shocked.gif

<hr width=100% size=1> <font color=blue>No one can force me to come here.<font color=red> I'm a volunteer!!.<font color=blue>

Haydn

 

[Freebee]

water filters need fairly constant flow of water through them to keep bug build ups at bay. The very nature of a filter is that you have some kind of media through which the water passes. When water flows nasty things get trapped on the media after all that is what its for, but when not in use the media becomes a bug breeding ground. This can be made worse by high summer temps, encouraging the blighters to grow more vigerously. Apart from chlorinating your system , use more water, run the tap more often.

<hr width=100% size=1><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by Mikehorrill on 27/09/2003 23:48 (server time).</FONT></P>

 

[HeadMistress]

Re: Water filters--the solution to your problem:

Fresh water system problems--foul odor or taste--are typically caused by allowing water to stagnate in the system. Although most people think only in terms of the tank, the plumbing is actually the source of most foul water, because the molds, mildew, fungi and bacteria which cause it thrive in damp dark places, not under water. Many people—and even some boat manufacturers—believe that keeping the tanks empty reduce the problem, but an empty water tank only provides another damp dark home for those “critters.”

There are all kinds of products sold that claim to keep onboard water fresh, but all that’s really necessary is an annual or in especially warm climates, semi-annual recommissioning of the entire system—tank and plumbing. The following recommendations conform to section 10.8 in the A-1 192 code covering electrical, plumbing, and heating of recreational vehicles. The solution is approved and recommended by competent health officials. It may be used in a new system a used one that has not been used for a period of time, or one that may have been contaminated.

Before beginning, turn off hot water heater at the breaker; do not turn it on again until the entire recommissioning is complete.

Icemakers should be left running to allow cleaning out of the water feed line; however the first two buckets of ice—the bucket generated during recommissioning and the first bucketful afterward--should be discarded.

1. Prepare a chlorine solution using one gallon of water and 1/2 cup (4 oz) Clorox or Purex household bleach (5% sodium Hypochlorine solution ). With tank empty, pour chlorine solution into tank. Use one gallon of solution for each 5 gallons of tank capacity.

2. Complete filling of tank with fresh water. Open each faucet and drain cock until air has been released and the entire system is filled. Do not turn off the pump; it must remain on to keep the system pressurized and the solution in the lines

3. Allow to stand for at least three hours, but no longer than 24 hours.

4 Drain through every faucet on the boat (and if you haven't done this in a while, it's a good idea to remove any diffusion screens from the faucets, because what's likely to come out will clog them). Fill the tank again with fresh water only, drain again through every faucet on the boat.

5. To remove excess chlorine taste or odor which might remain, prepare a solution of one quart white vinegar to five gallons water and allow this solution to agitate in tank for several days by vehicle motion.

6. Drain tank again through every faucet, and flush the lines again by fill the tank 1/4-1/2 full and again flushing with potable water.

People have expressed concern about using this method to recommission aluminum tanks. While bleach (chlorine) IS corrosive, it’s effects are are cumulative. So the effect of an annual or semi-annual "shock treatment" is negligible compared to the cumulative effect of holding chlorinated city water in the tank for years. Nevertheless, it's a good idea to mix the total amount of bleach in a few gallons of water before putting it into either a stainless or aluminum tank.

People have also expressed concern about the potential damage to rubber and neoprene water pump parts. Again—the cumulative effect of carrying chlorinated water is far more damaging over time than the occasional “shock treatment.” And it’s that cumulative effect that makes it a VERY bad idea to add a little bleach to each fill. Not only does it damage the system, but unless you add enough to make your water taste and smell like a laundry, it’s not enough to do any good. Even if it were, any “purifying” properties in chlorine evaporate within 24 hours, leaving behind only the corrosive properties.

An annual or semi-annual recommissioning according to the above directions is all that should be necessary to keep your water tasting and smelling as good as anything that comes out of any faucet on land. If you need to improve on that, install a water filter. Just remember that a filter is not a substitute for cleaning out the system, and that filters require regular inspection and cleaning or replacement.


To keep the water system cleaner longer, use your fresh water...keep water flowing through system. The molds, fungi, and bacteria only start to grow in hoses that aren't being used. Before filling the tank each time, always let the dock water run for at least 15 minutes first...the same critters that like the lines on your boat LOVE the dock supply line and your hose that sit in the warm sun, and you certainly don't want to transfer water that's been sitting in the dock supply line to your boat's system. So let the water run long enough to flush out all the water that's been standing in them so that what goes into your boat is coming straight from the water main.

Finally, while the molds, fungi and bacteria in onboard water systems here in the US may not be pleasant, we're dealing only with aesthetics...water purity isn't an issue here--or in most developed nations...the water supply has already been purified (unless you're using well-water). However, when cruising out of the country, it's a good idea to know what you're putting in your tanks...and if you're in any doubt, boil all water that's to be drunk or used to wash dishes, and/or treat each tankful to purify. It's even more important in these areas to let the water run before putting it in the tank, because any harmful bacteria will REALLY proliferate in water hoses left sitting on the dock.

(The code referenced above is a US standard...I'm sure there has to be a comparable UK code).


<hr width=100% size=1>Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987

 

[ccscott49]

I have a seperate tap for drinking water, with a filter in line, it's a general ecology one, I think, and works very well, no bad tastes or smells, takes everything out, tno taste, like bottled water, great for my tea and cask strentgh malt! The filters are advertised in PBO and most other mags. they nreally are good. I've been using mine for years, in the meddy and UK.

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[Artie]

Well it is obvious from your replies that the bugs are lurking between filter and tap.
I will try to clean this spur initally by detaching from the tank and pumping chlorinated water from a bucket through it. I presume that the filter will allow the chlorine through and not filter it out. Assuming that this works and the water remains fresh tasting then I will do the whole system. Trouble is that although I use the boat all year round one does not tend to require as much water for day trips as one does for vacations. I will report back when I have solved the problem
Thanks all.

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[HeadMistress]

I'm in the US and sometimes forget that the rest of the world doesn't measure in ounces and cups. To get the right ratio of bleach to water, 4 oz (1/2 cup) = 125 ml.

An easier way might be "bulk" measurement: a liter of bleach to 40 liters of water.

I'd remove any filters before recommissioning the system and either clean or replace according to filter mfr's directions. Filters require periodic cleaning/replacement anyway.

While I have your attention, I should introduce myself...I think it's already clear that I'm an American...in addition to being in the marine sanitation/plumbing business for nearly 20 years, I've also been a boat owner all my life...both motorboats and sailboats. I'm temporarily boatless...my last pride and joy was a 20 yr old 32' sedan that I bought in non-running and uninhabitable condition and restored. I was just recently invited to join the merry band of UK boat owners here by Ian Wright, a sailor who's been my good cyber-friend for nearly 10 years. I was glad accept because in addition to anything useful I can contribute, it's also a wonderful opportunity for me to learn about the issues of boating on your side of the pond and products that aren't availalble here.

So I hope you won't mind if I chime in when I think I can be useful, and also to ask questions about what to you may obvious, but new to me.



<hr width=100% size=1>Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987

 

[hlb]

Ah. An Expert!!

Years ago I told the folks around here a tale about my exploding bog. An event for which, I've been famous ever since!! Can you explain what happened. And why?? /forums/images/icons/laugh.gif

<hr width=100% size=1> <font color=blue>No one can force me to come here.<font color=red> I'm a volunteer!!.<font color=blue>

Haydn

 

[Artie]

Welcome Peggie and thanks for your input. It is great to have an expert give an opinion especially when they are not trying to sell something.
I suppose my problem with the water comes from the fact that the builder based his ideas of water supply on his own kitchen and had a separate drinking water supply so that the filter would last. What a shame he did not put it on the main system. In fact I'm thinking that when I have steralised the system of disregarding the "drinking" water tap and placing the Filter on the main spur near the "kitchen" tap - at least there will be a much greater flow of water here and of course it will not stagnate as it does in the other spur.

Let us all know when you get your next boat!!

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[HeadMistress]

Thank you for the very warm welcome! I cringe at the term "expert" though...that's someone from out of town with a lot of theory and little hands-on experience. I'm just someone who's learned a lot, enjoys sharing what I know, and hope I never stop learning. Since I sold my company 5 years ago, I have nothing TO sell any more--unless you count my new book, which isn't available in the UK yet...and besides, my publisher makes far more from it than I do.

HLB, I suspect that either a clog or a blocked holding tank vent was the cause for your exploding head. If it's any consolation, I too once took an unexpected "bath" in the geyser that resulted from a pressurized tank due to a blocked tank vent when I opened the deck pumpout fitting...and immediately did the only sensible thing--I went swimming...clothes, shoes, sunglasses and all!

But that's a subject for another thread. Is there any more I can contribute to solving your fresh water problems?



<hr width=100% size=1>Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987

 

[dickh]

Hello Peggy and welcome.
I have been on your US site a couple of years ago and took your advice regarding curing "Smelly Heads" and now pump through fresh water in the inlet pipes at the end of every sail and yes, it's totally cured my problems. I have offered this solution on this forum and others since then. Thanks a lot.

<hr width=100% size=1>dickh
I'd rather be sailing... /forums/images/icons/smile.gif

 

[Artie]

Peggie

I agree with you about the term "Expert"
One definition I heard was as follows:-

"ex" - passed
"spurt" - drip under pressure

Hence an expert relates to a "Drip under great pressure who is passed his prime.."

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[HeadMistress]

Someone just sent me a wonderful definition of "expert:"

someone who learns more and more about less and less, until eventually he knows everything about nothing.

<hr width=100% size=1>Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987

 

[Guest]

I suspect in this case that the water downstream of the filter has had the chemicals that the water company added to ensure it's safety removed.
This might well improve the taste but does nothing to help it's purity. Try shortening the downstream leg or just bleed a bit off before using it.

Geoff

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[HeadMistress]

It's important to remember that filters are not "install it and forget it" items...they have a finite life before they must either be cleaned or replaced...and that lifespan varies with the filter and/or the amount of minerals and chemicals in the water. It can be as long as a year, or as short as a month.

But as Art noted, filter may improve the taste, but it doesn't cure the problem that creates the taste...so filters can't replace regular system maintenance, they can only improve on it--but then, only if the filters are maintained.

<hr width=100% size=1>Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987

 

[hlb]

Re: Please Miss!!

Confesion.

My filters been in at least five years to my knowledge. Should I be dead..../forums/images/icons/shocked.gif

<hr width=100% size=1> <font color=blue>No one can force me to come here.<font color=red> I'm a volunteer!!.<font color=blue>

Haydn

 

[HeadMistress]

Re: Please Miss!!

After 5 years, it's unlikely that your filters are still capable of filtering anything...in fact, I'm a bit surprised that they're still even allowing any water to pass through them. If you've experienced a drop in water pressure at the taps, this would account for it. However, as long the water going into your tank is purified water from a municipal water source, your life and health are in little danger...the molds and fungi that like to grow in boat plumbing make the water aesthetically unpleasant, but they're non-pathogenic (won't make you sick). So as long as you're only cruising the waters of the UK and developed European countries that have safe water, you shouldn't have any worries.

It's when you take on water in ports that don't have reliable water treatment that your water can put you in any danger. And most filters are not capable of removing viruses and bacteria that can make you sick. That's when you need to be very aware of the quality of the water you are taking on and follow recommended water purification procedures. And when you get home, recommission your system according to the directions I posted above to sanitize it.







<hr width=100% size=1>Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987

 

[hlb]

Re: Please Miss!!

Thank god for that!! So if wot I put in is ok. It's OK for ever. If I understand correctly. WEll in any event we all have been drinking the same water for a few milion years anyway. So it must be OK!!

<hr width=100% size=1> <font color=blue>No one can force me to come here.<font color=red> I'm a volunteer!!.<font color=blue>

Haydn