Was this legal?

[Guest]

Ran in to a friend at the weekend, who tells me he overnighted in Keyhaven on his own anchor. Next morning, he was boarded without warning by a man from the council, demanding a fiver. Told him to sod off, man from council said he'd better leave Keyhaven, and departed.

Friend went ashore in another friend's tender, and then spotted a police cutter circling his yacht from the top of Hurst castle. Cutter boarded his yacht and removed his tender, then handed it over to the man from the council.

Phone call to the police caused some consternation, followed by suggestion (after some while) that if he went to the man from the council and paid up, he could have his tender back. Friend suggested that as the police were accessories to the theft of his tender, maybe it should be returned to his yacht, and he'd pay the money.

Is this stuff allowed to happen?

 

[PeteMcK]

I doubt whether it would be legal in Scotland. There was a court here case about 10 years ago which effectively outlawed the practice of wheel clamping and then charging money for release. In a test case, guys from a security contractor were found guilty of extortion (for "normal" clamping on private property). They were quite heavily fined: I believe extortion is regarded as a serious crime with, potentially, extremely heavy penalties. Anyway, it had a salutary effect and, to my knowledge, no one up here dares to clamp any more. There might be a bye-law which says he has to pay, in which case the official should have said, and perhaps should carry a copy of it. And if that's the most important thing these particular cops could find to do with their time, their paymasters should be thinking about better ways of using their/our money (like abandoning anchoring charges?).

 

[Bergman]

This sort of behaviour by the police appears to be becoming more and more common.

They appear to confuse being the law and enforcing the law.

I hope your friend sues them or brings a private prosecution.

It makes me fume - and I don't even know the chap.

 

[Guest]

Re: i\'d say no

I beleive that this is a civil matter. Not like pinching petrol from a petrol station. Up to keyhaven to pursue it, find boat, then owener, then prosecute if necessary.

I am amazed at the subsequent action you relate. Your friend should speak to local police, and chase it up as high as posssible. I trust that he has got his tender back.

As for the fiver, I think that they are okay to charge - I understand that the same applies frexample in the Scillies, no facilities, no buoys but a fee to overnite. Byelaws, see. You can anchor in my garden for a tenner, but the approach is tricky.

 

[Guest]

From what I understand, the launch came out from Portsmouth, with six or seven coppers aboard, so what the cost was, I dread to think. And it's not even the same council...

 

[Guest]

Re: i\'d say no

I would love to, but I've heard it can get rowdy...

 

[Castletine]

Taxpayers pay again

It's bad enough to be screwed to the ground on taxes and outrageous mooring costs because we want to enjoy our sport, if you think about it there's probably very little in the field of sports that has our level of outgoing costs to contend with.

And it's quite another to realise that additional taxpayers money is being squandered by officials to claim on some outdated byelaw that has no relevance and benefits no -one.

Once again, to gain satisfaction, a frustrating journey has to be taken through the 'red tape' at personal expense to 'understand' the irrational actions of the state.

The Australian's have an expression which is 'F you, and F your dog' - meaning that it's bad enough being conned as it is, but it's doubly bad when your dog gets it too. Seeing as this country is going to the dogs, I think this expression apt.

 

[billmacfarlane]

How much did the whole exercise cost ?

I wonder how much local ratepayers money was wasted in the pursuit of a fiver ?

 

[johnt]

wasn't there a fairly major court case recently where it was found that COUNCILS DO NOT HAVE A RIGHT TO CHARGE anchorage fees or something .....I know that if anyone got this high handed with me the Merde would fly in all directions!

 

[Twister_Ken]

Call the RYA solicitor, and ask. nm

§

 

[billmacfarlane]

His name\'s Edmund Whelan nm

!

 

[steve_cronin]

The NT has charged in Newtown River for years and gives a..

.. large discunt to members but the alleged actions of the police in this case are outrageous. I wish that I could get the local police to put a "distraint on goods" without benefit of an intervening County Court Order on those who owe ME money.

A case of the "Uniformed Classes" working together?

I have been criticising the various Chief Constables in this land for their changed perception of their function for some time.

More than one has stated in recent years that he sees his role as one of "Regulating Society" rather than attempting to deter, detect and report crime. You can criticise France but their police stick strictly to the latter definition.

Do you want your society "regulating" by people with attitudes like some of our police? Having them decide bases upon their own attitude, what IS or IS NOT "acceptable behaviour"?

Name and Address supplied & my car not registered in my name

(I'm no fool!!)

 

[peterb]

Police powers

The police seem to be very uncertain as to their real powers, but do it anyway along the lines that 'no one is going to challenge us'.

A few years ago I was stopped for a traffic survey; waved in to a coned-off lane by a constable. I gestured to him that I didn't want to take part, but was waved in anyway. The survey man knew the law; they can stop you for a survey, but can't detain you against your will if you don't want to take part. But having been put into a coned-off lane with other cars in front and behind, how can you get out?

As it happened, I was on my way to evening school, so couldn't do anything at that time. But when I came back, I went to the police station responsible and asked to see the officer in charge. I complained about being detained for a traffic survey. "We are entitled to stop you at any time, sir." "Stop, yes, but not to detain. I want to know who it was that gave instructions to the constable that entailed him acting beyond his powers?" "There is no difference between stopping and detaining, sir".

Now it just so happened that a year or so before someone had been stopped in just this manner on a Kent motorway, and had thereby missed his ferry. He took a case for damages to the High Court and won. The case was reported in the Times Law Reports, and by some fluke of memory I could remember not just the case, but the name of the driver as well.

"Are you not aware of the case of X against the Chief Constable of Kent, in which damages were awarded against the police for doing exactly what you did to me?" "Oh, are you a solicitor, sir?" "Does it matter? Do solicitors and the general public get different treatments from the police in this station? Do you have a special form for recording complaints, or do I just write in? And can you give me the address to complain to?"

I ended up with an apology from the Chief Constable, together with thanks for bringing this aspect of the law to their notice!

I suggest that you try writing to the Police Complaints Authority, copy to the Chief Constable.

 

[cynthia]

Re: Call the RYA solicitor, and ask. nm

I always understood that all land between the high water and low water mark belonged to the crown (of course this may be a myth) and that exploration rights can be granted for an area of the sea bed, but by whom? Who actually owns the sea bed? Does anybody possess the deeds??

 

[johnt]

Re: The NT has charged in Newtown River for years and gives a..

Your quiet right steve our constabibulary (deliberate) isnt to "serve and protect" its a political tool for population control and has been for years, I think they stopped using the army for that job about the time of the Peterlee massacre. peterlee? peterloo? something like that, all I remember is the Hussars set about the population with sabres when they voiced a grievance. ( shades of the miners strike!)

My wife is taking a degree in sociology and social policy and "the role of the Police " is one of the subjects, so everything gets discussed ( Yawn)

OH AND THE FRENCH AINT ANY BETTER ! VIVE LE WATER CANNON!

 

[tonyleigh]

There may be a legal point here which is worth checking. A few years ago when the local squire started charging on our river he boarded boats and left messages threatening people who didn't register and pay that their moorings would be ripped up. The boarding of the boats was held to have broken maritime law and he was forced to issue letters of apology. On the face of it both the council operative and the police would appear to be in contravention of this same law.
Whelan was also "supposed" to be handling our case but he, and the RYA, were so appalling it led to a number of us ceasing to be RYA members. That, however, is a different issue.

 

[Geoffs]

Re: The NT has charged in Newtown River for years and gives a..

Careful, or we'll hear another news broadcast of another poor chap being shot in a dawn raid by police in his bed. Hope you don't live in West Sussex!

 

[gus]

Re: Police powers

Some years ago a yacht was anchored just off from an hotel while the owner and his companions partook of a meal. On the opposite side of the loch is a navy submarine base with a naval police boat in constant attendance. In the absence of the owner the police boarded the yacht and commenced searching it. The owner returned with his companions and demanded an explanation from the police who said they had a right to search the yacht as it was near a restricted area. The owner than informed the police that in that case he would proceed to search the police boat. "You cannot do that Sir" To which he replied "Oh yes I can, and would you care to contact this number for confirmation" as he handed them a plastic card. The police then contacted the number to be told that he indeed had the right. The owner was the head of Customs and Excise for Scotland which has more powers than the police. The postscript is that is took two days for the police to put their boat back together again. They have been more careful about boarding yachts since then.
The message for the police down south is that they had better be careful about their actions as it could backfire on them.

PS This story is the gospel truth because I know the owner.

 

[Guest]

A similar(ish) experience

We went to visit friends at their dacha at a large provincial city in Russia. We met up with our friend on a road outside the city.

A traffic policeman at a checkpoint stopped our car, took away the driver's passport and licence and demanded a fine/bribe. In the distance our friend's jeep did a majestic turn, roared the wrong way round a major roundabout and screeched to a halt in front of the policemen in a cloud of dust and stones.

One traffic policeman said to the other "B****y hell, and right under our noses, too!"

Our friend leapt out of his jeep, took the traffic policeman by the scruff of the neck and dragged him into the checkpoint hut, from where could be heard a stream of violent swearing. Ten seconds later our friend emerged, thrust the passport and licence into our driver's hand and we all set off.

As it happened, our friend was Chief of Police for the Region, whose surname was well-known throughout the city. We left behind us two ashen-faced and trembling traffic policemen.

The moment was delicious; anyone who has had any dealings with the Russian traffic police can have no sympathy for them whatsoever.

 

[durham123]

Please get in touch with a contact number for your friend who had his dinghy seized and I will personally check this story out for any illegalities.
Dick Durham, news editor, Yachting Monthly : 0207 261 6580