was the mirror dingy the best little ship ever built?

[lustyd]

But your thread drift is really off topic.....

My thread drift? You're the one who attacked the young and gamers on page one of a thread about dinghy sailing for no apparent reason! Perhaps best stick to anchors...

 

[LittleSister]

When I bought my Snap 23 .... I was a 'helper' for Scouts. I offered my Alacrity 19 to them FoC .... without any req't that I be skipper or anything ... completely free.

The District Comm'tee when they were told of the offer turned it down. Explaining that such activities were so full of rules and regs, insurance ... HS&E as well as the large list of safety gear that would near sink the finances ....

A far cry from when I was a Sea Cadet in Whalers etc. years before.

I bought a Leisure 17 from a scout group about 20 years ago (I never did get it in the water before selling it on, but that's another story). It had been unused for a long time, because, I was told, the Scouts (presumably nationally) had introduced a rule that meant that they had to have two adults aboard when sailing it, so they could only accommodate a couple of kids at a time, which was impractical. The kids could, however, sail that Scouts group's dinghies - on the face of it much more hazardous - without an adult. Presumably they had fixed requirements for the 'manning' of yachts which assumed they were large vessels.

I suspect it is an example of the problems of bureaucratic inflexibility and poor communications in large organisations, rather than anything wrong in the principle or legal requirements of taking care to manage risks of bodily or mental harm to the minors in their charge.

 

[ylop]

I suspect it is an example of the problems of bureaucratic inflexibility and poor communications in large organisations, rather than anything wrong in the principle or legal requirements of taking care to manage risks of bodily or mental harm to the minors in their charge.

Voluntary organisations seem to be excellent at finding the sort of people who will be frustrated by a rule, widely propagate the frustration, and spread the details of the supposed rule (often misquoted!) rather than pick up the phone to the well-meaning "rule maker" to clarify the meaning or whether should=must or they can use a small yacht just like its a dinghy. Without having seen the rules I imagine it was either (or both): yachts are assumed to be used without safety boat cover and so they want competent adults on board to sort the mess out OR yachts with sleeping accommodation have child protection/safeguarding complications.

 

[LittleSister]

Voluntary organisations seem to be excellent at finding the sort of people who will be frustrated by a rule, widely propagate the frustration, and spread the details of the supposed rule (often misquoted!) rather than pick up the phone to the well-meaning "rule maker" to clarify the meaning or whether should=must or they can use a small yacht just like its a dinghy. Without having seen the rules I imagine it was either (or both): yachts are assumed to be used without safety boat cover and so they want competent adults on board to sort the mess out OR yachts with sleeping accommodation have child protection/safeguarding complications.

I don't doubt it. I can assure you, though, from first-hand experience that both private and public sector organisations can easily match such problems as you describe!

I think scale is an important factor. Perhaps the most fleet-footed organisation I worked for was a medium-sized (regional, not local or national/international) voluntary sector organisation. Big enough to have a range of very experienced, trained, and confident professional staff, but small enough to be able to get all those with the relevant knowledge and authority to make a decision in the room (or on the blower) together at short notice to settle (or amend) a decision.

 

[Refueler]

Voluntary organisations seem to be excellent at finding the sort of people who will be frustrated by a rule, widely propagate the frustration, and spread the details of the supposed rule (often misquoted!) rather than pick up the phone to the well-meaning "rule maker" to clarify the meaning or whether should=must or they can use a small yacht just like its a dinghy. Without having seen the rules I imagine it was either (or both): yachts are assumed to be used without safety boat cover and so they want competent adults on board to sort the mess out OR yachts with sleeping accommodation have child protection/safeguarding complications.

In my particular case - many discussions face to face were had - District Commisioner was friend of ours let alone the other relevant people.

The requirements were studied at great length to find a way .... but 1. a 19ft Alacrity would have been loaded down ... 2. The group was unable to consider the expense of such setting up ...

As to safety and my role in Scouts - I was the guy in charge of rigging, inspecting the monkey rope walks and general ropework matters ....

 

[Sandro]

Neeves seems looking for a boat to sail IN and not ON.

A 12' international could suit. Wooden or GRP, oars, lugsail, outboard motor, and a real "boat", not a sports tool wetting your back bottom.

Ours was our first family boat in 1954 and is still in commission, even if seldom launched.
I wonder why this English designed dinghy is so little (almost never) mentioned in this forum.

Sandro

 

[viago]

In a time long, long ago I used to crew for my dad when he "raced" as a member of the BP yacht club on the Isle of Grain, he took it very seriously and woe betide me if I did something wrong, shame really but the Mirror was built by him in the house and extricated by taking out a window and knocking part of the wall down.
He was of the time and grew his own tobacco, distilled his own spirits and dyed his hair bright orange when attempting to colour it when using additives in some hair colouring.
His workshop was full of various things and lots of tins of Golden Virginia containing lots of things, we also kept chickens, geese and a couple of goats.
I had a strange childhood.....

they are terrific pictures. they speak of a time long past.

you'll be interested to know that i still have golden virginia tins in garage with various things in them. god only knows what.

you were lucky, you sat beneath the boom, i got clocked by the boom on my dad's heron on more occasions than i can remember.

probably explains a lot.

that, and having my head stamped on at the secondary modern.

 

[viago]

I think it was accepted because - as you say "the best little ship ever built" it was built at home and thus became something Dad could afford. It brought sailing onto the street, the guy next door or your own kitchen table and allowed the kids to relate to Swallows and Amazons - suddenly the book became identifiable with what Dad was doing and what his efforts were used for.

Arguably there is a greater need now - not much to aspire to in a video game - but if Dad was building a ship (or yacht) on the kitchen table and little Jimmy could help - maybe the appeal of the console would diminish.

PBO or YM could offer the lead - and provide the backing for something based on more recent technology, glass and foam are not difficult to work with, design to have a foil as an option - much better than a skate board......

Go to boat shows now - Dad's mortgage payments are getting bigger and bigger (as are the yachts at the show) - not easy times.

Jonathan

Edit

I've always wondered about a dinghy, call it a tender to provide more focus, that would be sailable and come in sections (so it could be stowed on long passages) and foiling seems to be very popular, here (but maybe a bit physical).

It would open up opportunity for a larger interest base (and might increase hard copy media).

that is my feelings exactly.

we need a new mirror dingy people can build at home.

i think the kids of today would soon latch on to the idea that using wind power to travel is something they can buy into.

they would believe they are helping the 'climate crisis'.

 

[Kelpie]

There are plenty of young people sailing, and plenty of them are aiming to keep their environmental impact as low as possible. But they're not building dinghies, they're buying old yachts, covering them in solar panels, and setting off to sunny climes.

 

[ylop]

that is my feelings exactly.

we need a new mirror dingy people can build at home.

i think the kids of today would soon latch on to the idea that using wind power to travel is something they can buy into.

they would believe they are helping the 'climate crisis'.

I think if you do some proper analysis of why kids go to sailing clubs (or indeed any sports club) the sport is often the secondary consideration and its a friendship thing that takes priority. I'm not sure that building a boat with "dad" has quite the same appeal. With a bit of a growth of "Men's Sheds" and many rural boat clubs building rowing skiffs though I can see that actually there might be an appeal for "parents" (or grandparents) to get together and build something (perhaps better than a mirror). (by (grand)parents I just mean that generation, rather than any actual need to have progeny).

 

[rogerthebodger]

It also makes me consider is the various stages of life / career family has an effect on membership of clubs in general

When you are young you have no money but time. Then college / University. Then its all about girls / wives / paying back loans. Then pressure of work, Its only later in life that time and money becomes available pastimes like sporting clubs that you may be interested in.

Also how close you live to the coast and boating centers can have a big effect on a persons interest in boating and sailing

I lived in the Midlands and had little exposure to boating or sailing when I was young until we moves to closer to the canals in the West Midlands ( Sturbridge and the Birmingham Canal Navigation (BCN) when I got interested in canal boat cruising.

When I moved to South Africa I spent almost 20 years 600 km from the coast and it was later when my company could carry on without my day to day attension that I got back into bosting and sailing in particular

 

[lustyd]

When you are young you have no money but time. Then college / University. Then its all about girls / wives / paying back loans

That may be your experience, but a large proportion of the population have no money or time when young, they're too busy working minimum wage jobs to survive. Many of those don't go to college or uni, and I'd wager at least 50% of them are all about boys/husbands

 

[rogerthebodger]

That may be your experience, but a large proportion of the population have no money or time when young, they're too busy working minimum wage jobs to survive. Many of those don't go to college or uni, and I'd wager at least 50% of them are all about boys/husbands

While I was at school I had no money by time

When I started work at 15 yes I has some money and a little time.

I was offered a University place and that when you have some money but not too much but I had to study hard and of cause girls came into play

But of cause different will have different life experiences

All I can do is relate my personal experience and may be some of my colleges

 

[Poignard]

While I was at school I had no money by time.

When I started work at 15, yes I has some money and a little time.

I was offered a University place and that when you have some money but not too much but I had to study hard and of cause girls came into play

But of cause different will have different life experiences

All I can do is relate my personal experience and may be some of my colleges

Did you get a degree?

 

[rogerthebodger]

Did you get a degree?

Yes B Sc upper second class honors from University of Aston . I graduated in 1971

I did a 4 year Sandwich which is 2 terns a year in Uni and 2 terms training in various Engineering companies

I started work in 1962 straight from school at 15 and signed indentions at 16. I then dis a National Certificate on day release and at 2 or 3 nights a week wile working in Various Engineering workshops leaning various trades.

Married in 1973 in South London lived in Stevenage Herts for a company designing hoist, crane and convertor equipment