Was I stupid?

[martinwoolwich]

I left Cherbourg yesterday at about 12:00 local for Southampton. The heavy rain of the previous night had virually ceased although I could still see ominous clouds overland. Out to sea the weather looked much better. Forecast was wind 3-4, sea state slight some thundery showers in the morning expected.

Based on forecast (and in my innocence), I decided the return to Southampton would be fine.

As it transpired all was fine. We got into rain - not too bad - twice for approx. 10 minutes each time. Both times I could see it easily on the Radar (an experience I had not had before).

The wind might just have touched a F5 and was mainly SW most of the way.

I have just spoken to a friend of mine who said. "My father saw you leave Cherbourg in a thunderstorm. You shouldn't have done that"

I'm not asking this just so I can be told I was OK to make this trip and make me feel better. I'm genuinely interested to know if I had been stupid to attempt the crossing in those conditions, (particularly since the storms on land behind me could easily have caught up with me mid channel), and what would have been the risks of making the crossing if I had been caught up in thunder and lightning the whole way.

Considering your answer bear in mind that I have only crossed the channel four times previously (two full journeys with returns), I have only two full years boating experience, I know I am weak in my understanding of weather and have already attended one, one day course and am booked on another two day course, and my boat is a Broom 38. I have full compliment of electronic Chartplotter, VHF, Radar, all paper charts.

I thought I was fine and I wasn't putting myself, my boat or my passengers in any risk at all. But that could just be my naivety.

I am interested in your comments

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[hlb]

Dont see any problem in your boat. Although its bloody miseable in rain. The sea was behind you anyway, which would be like flat calm on mine. Course I once crossed the wide bit of the Bristol Channel in a 4 to 5 which turned out to be a 6 to 7 but that was the coast guards fault!!

<hr width=100% size=1> <font color=blue>It's flog a flag day.<font color=red> Today.<font color=blue>

Haydn

 

[tcm]

Hm, i think this was fine. Of course, theres always *some* risk. But the sea not in front of beam.

You might have considered heading more west to start (mebbe you did) cos the sea will have been flatter on french side than on uk side: this would have meant you would be taking a more easterly course from midchannel where i bet it will have been rougher.

But, I think you were okay to go, experience and boatwise. And i specially think you were ok to go cos making this post shows that you aren't too cockily sure of things which can be dangerous.







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[hlb]

If you cant go anywhere in a f3/4 then you cant go anywhere at all. I think a F5 would be fine.

<hr width=100% size=1> <font color=blue>It's flog a flag day.<font color=red> Today.<font color=blue>

Haydn

 

[kindredspirit]

I think what you did was fine and OK.

No argument in my opinion. (for what it's worth)

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[Guest]

No i do not think you were stupid and your successful crossing proved the case. Very often heavy rain tends to flatten the sea for some reason. The more you cross the channel etc in different conditions the better and before long your natuaral instincts will take over,of course if adverse forecasts are given you don`t go ,common sense will prevail,you have a sound vessel for these trips,you don`t want to be like some whom always find an excuse not to go out.i.e. I saw a wave the other day so I`m not going out this year.

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[trev]

You have a well found boat and exercised your judgement - which is all any of us can do to get anywhere. How else can you learn from experience ? Your judgement proved correct, but even if it had got a bit hairy I'm sure you would have come through OK, a bit shaken and stirred maybe. I think most of us have been caught out at one time or another - its the nature of boating in Britain.

<hr width=100% size=1>Trev

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

No

No, you were'nt stupid. A thunderstorm might bring some shortlived squally gusts of wind which could be a problem for a sailing boat but not for a well found motor boat like yours. Maybe you did this anyway but its always wise to undertake an open sea passage in wind over tide conditions so with a SW forecast I would have left Cherbourg at the start of the E-going tide and I would have gone via the Nab rather than the Needles to give a bit more of a following rather than a beam sea

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[h4nym]

Here here with all the comments. We have a straighforward rule - wind, forecast f4 or less and not against the tide. Sea state less than a metre. That way you're covered if it's a bit worse than forecast.

Boating is about fun, not heroics... but sometimes a challenge is fun!

Enjoy!

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[tcm]

Fair enough - but martin's boat is bit bigger and heftier and should be fine in F5, in fact uncomfy (but still ok) in F7+, depending on sea state etc. etc.

The thread, incl your post, does raise the interesting question of what "experience" each should try to acquire. I mean, perhaps few intend to go out in over force 4. But is this healthy? If it is forecast 3-4 but turns out F7 (as happend the other week in solent) ... would the "F4 maximums" go to pieces? Some seem to have done so, with over thirty rescue callouts.

I think that Martin has very cleverly acquired excellent knowledge. He knows he can do a F5, what it's like and so on. He of course wd prefer less, but wouldn't be freaked at the idea of F6. He has ensured that his own idea of safe fun can continue at least to F5, not that he's being "heroic", perhaps?

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[LadyInBed]

"My father saw you leave Cherbourg in a thunderstorm. You shouldn't have done that"

Contrary to others, the way I read that comment was not about the sea state, but the possibility of lightening associated with a thunderstorm. If there was any around I would have stayed put. If you are already out in it, I note you have Radar, I would if possible, have driven around the rain.

I saw lightening W of Poole Sunday evening but don't know what was about at midday.

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[h4nym]

I agree... we got caught in an 8 with a 4-5 metre sea to go with it between Dieppe and Le Havre... uncomfortable... very uncomfortable... but never felt truly endangered - what's the rule? You'll give up well before your boat will?

It was after that that we put the ground rules in about wind and sea state... wind against tide endorsement was added after another uncomfortable run out in the estuary!

Horses for courses...

H

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[tcm]

I'm not sure that all boats will be just fine in F8 -there's a lot of crashity bang and big green stuff can cause quick damage. But yes, provided that you have seen it (a bit) then the F4rule is nice for comfy cruising.

Mind you, all this changes in the med, short choppy sea means that facing an F8 is like having a fire hyrant in your face, but downwind it can be bikini time, depending on the fetch of the sea (often v short). Coming then?

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[h4nym]

lol - u inviting tcm? need a 33ft Tender? ;-) Will bring her into southern Italy where I have an Aunt to look after her after England get knocked out of the Euro 2004s

I fancy the Greek Islands thru '05... yum!

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[martinwoolwich]

Lightning

Nigel,

That was the other part of the question. What are the risks associated with motor boating in lightning conditions? (forked not sheet)

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[ccscott49]

Re: Lightning

No more than if you were in port in a thunder and lightning storm.

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[Steve_D]

Lightening strike - how likely

Has anyone ever actually heard of a boat getting struck by lightening? I haven't, I think you would have to be very unlucky.

As to the doom and gloom brigade, you're the skipper and you make your decisions based on your own experience etc, no one else can do it for you.

There are always "I told you so's" that will point a finger, heading out into a worsening gale is probably not bright but your actions sounded ok to me.

To my mind you have to push the envelope a bit sometimes, sooner or later you will scare yourself enough so that you know when to back off, so that:

1 - you know your limitations and those of the boat
2 - know how to handle the boat in dodgy seas

The most important thing to my mind is to instill confidence in your passengers and crew, and that comes with experience, and you get that by going out, not just on flat calm days but in a variety of conditions.

all IMHO of course.

Steve D

PS please note:- this is from someone who went canoeing in a force 10 to see what would happen!


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[Bejasus]

Re: Lightening strike - how likely

There was anarticle recently in one of the mags, by an owner, whose vessel was struck by lightening whilst at sea. Can't remember which mag tho.

<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.arweb.co.uk/argallery/h00>http://www.arweb.co.uk/argallery/h00</A>

 

[jon_bailey]

Re: Lightning

Colin

Are you sure about this? In port there are usually lots of yottie things with masts or buildings that are bound to be struck before a mobo.

I was considering the same thing when coming back from Poole on Saturday evening. There was a tremendous electrical storm up ahead probably 10 miles + but I was certainly wondering if I had been underneath would I have risked a strike due to me or more likely my VHF aerial being the lowest resistance route to ground?

As it is I went closer to shore working on same principle but as I say it was a long way ahead.


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[ccscott49]

Re: Lightning

Lightning doesn't seem to notice things like that, it will strike a house, with a skyscraper next to it, why does it strike a yacht, which may well be insulated from the sea, when theres all that sea out there? nobody seems to know why, it doesn't seem to follow totally the normal laws of electricity, think of ball lightning, how the hell does that work, St. Elmos fire and things like that, they are still spending time and money to attempt to understand this.

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