VP Outdrive opinions please..

[oldgit]

Well joking aside, I did read and consider what you said, and I did not dismiss it either. As per the OP there are other considerations in this particular project - considerations that at least caused me to stop and question my pre-conceived ideas.
As we all know, boats are compromises, horses for courses etc. etc. I too have made my living on the water since 1972 (as a marine engineer) but again as per the OP I have not had much dealings with O/D's. On another occasion I could have gone for shafts but for this job I've now chosen drives, I will prep and look after them as best I am able, and we'll see how it goes.
I've only just thought of this - but I've now pushed myself around the oceans with steam, nuclear, gas turbine, diesel, petrol, jet drives, outboards, oars and sails - so perhaps it's just fate rounding things off!

always had great admiration for anyone prepared to take on a challenge

 

[Moodysailor]

Not aware of any small commercial craft in my locality and any skippers who earn a living on the water ,who use outdrives.
Without exception they all have shaft drives.
Mainly small charter and fast fishing vessels.
There might be reason for this. ?

In 18 years as a marine engineer I've worked on hundreds of small commercial boats powered by outdrives - from police to fast fishing. Also worked on thousands that have shafts - the reason you see more commercial boats with shafts is that there are more of these built than O/D. And the reason for this is that many of these boats are essentially a recycled older hull design that pre-dates O/D. These work well, are cheaper to make and easy to self-maintain - often these are higher priorities for the multitude of small fishermen than greater comfort, efficiency, performance and cabin space.

I'm not saying there is anything wrong with this - the guys who make their living on the sea have a right to stake their claim in "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" - but I think the "reason" you are looking for is more than likely to prove your own confirmation bias.

Anecdotally, the met police who use the Botnia Targa said to me once that they appreciated having the O/D boats - at the time they had a mix of shaft, jet and O/D. When they had a problem with a shaft boat it was always 2/3 days to sort it out, jets were great but expensive (their words), and they liked O/D as when there was an issue they could haul the boat, put a new drive on and be back in the water within an hour or two. The faulty drive would then be serviced or fixed in good time. Admittedly, they have the resources to have complete spare drives hanging around but it does go to show that if you look at the situation pragmatically there are as many positives as negatives for each type of propulsion solution. And in their eyes, each one was a case of "when not if" it would go wrong.

 

[James L]

In 18 years as a marine engineer I've worked on hundreds of small commercial boats powered by outdrives - from police to fast fishing. Also worked on thousands that have shafts - the reason you see more commercial boats with shafts is that there are more of these built than O/D. And the reason for this is that many of these boats are essentially a recycled older hull design that pre-dates O/D. These work well, are cheaper to make and easy to self-maintain - often these are higher priorities for the multitude of small fishermen than greater comfort, efficiency, performance and cabin space.

I'm not saying there is anything wrong with this - the guys who make their living on the sea have a right to stake their claim in "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" - but I think the "reason" you are looking for is more than likely to prove your own confirmation bias.

Anecdotally, the met police who use the Botnia Targa said to me once that they appreciated having the O/D boats - at the time they had a mix of shaft, jet and O/D. When they had a problem with a shaft boat it was always 2/3 days to sort it out, jets were great but expensive (their words), and they liked O/D as when there was an issue they could haul the boat, put a new drive on and be back in the water within an hour or two. The faulty drive would then be serviced or fixed in good time. Admittedly, they have the resources to have complete spare drives hanging around but it does go to show that if you look at the situation pragmatically there are as many positives as negatives for each type of propulsion solution. And in their eyes, each one was a case of "when not if" it would go wrong.

I have dpe's, only problem in 10 years has been a worn clutch.
I have been propped 3 times and was very thankful that I could just raise the outdrives and cut the rope off. One of the times it was a one inch rope tied onto a lorry tire a fishing boat had lost over the side. had to unwrap that one, I would never have managed to cut through it.
I also appreciated being able to tie up to piers where low tide would leave about 2 feet of water. it's nice knowing there'll always be a space that most mobos and yachts can't take.
All that being said I think my next boat will have shafts - because I will be looking for something mid 40s to 50 feet and there aren't many with outdrives. I imagine most people changing from an outdrive to a shaft drive boat will be doing so for similar reasons.

 

[Moodysailor]

All that being said I think my next boat will have shafts - because I will be looking for something mid 40s to 50 feet and there aren't many with outdrives. I imagine most people changing from an outdrive to a shaft drive boat will be doing so for similar reasons.

Good reason, O/D are not really suitable for boats at that size or weight (hasn't stopped some manufacturers trying though...).

Depending on your preference and budget, IPS are another option at that size (although I suspect just mentioning that will bring out a whole different bunch of opinions ?)

 

[James L]

Good reason, O/D are not really suitable for boats at that size or weight (hasn't stopped some manufacturers trying though...).

Depending on your preference and budget, IPS are another option at that size (although I suspect just mentioning that will bring out a whole different bunch of opinions ?)

my budget might stretch to the IPS but without the boat attached.

 

[madabouttheboat]

I know OG like to talk about all the people who have sold their outdrive boat and bought shafts, but he never addresses one of the main reason for this. They, like many others, are going up in size and when you get to 40ft+ flybridge boats you don't get the option. It's shafts and their 1mpg or nothing. While i'm mincing around with my twin sterndrives, doing the sort of mileages in one average year that all the shafts in my club put together don't cover, I can at least rejoice in the fact that I am using half the fuel that they would if they dared to take their boats out and open the throttle.

 

[oldgit]

I know OG like to talk about all the people who have sold their outdrive boat and bought shafts, but he never addresses one of the main reason for this. They, like many others, are going up in size and when you get to 40ft+ flybridge boats you don't get the option. It's shafts and their 1mpg or nothing. While i'm mincing around with my twin sterndrives, doing the sort of mileages in one average year that all the shafts in my club put together don't cover, I can at least rejoice in the fact that I am using half the fuel that they would if they dared to take their boats out and open the throttle.

An oft recycled tale by outdrive carers in the community .
However in the real world.................
Owned a Princess 33 with pair of 125 Hp AQD40A on 280T outdrives.
Had the boat for eight years and kept a detailed log of hours (1200) and fuel consumption.
Having finally tired of the expence and time ashore due to the outdrives, decided to finally listen to advice given to me by folks who have spent their lives around boats many of whom earned a living on the water.
The next boat was a Transocean 37 basically a heavy old Broom 37 hull powered by pair of Perkins M 130HP diesels, had this boat for around 7 years (1000 hours) again kept a detailed log of fuel costs.
Was actually worrying the extra fuel costs between the two boats.
Average hours on both boats was between 150 and 200 hours per annum.
The actual fuel burn difference between the two boats was of little consequence and certainly not noticable on the pocket.

The absence of outdrive repair bills and that tiresome rubberware change palaver most certainly was.
Not having to dig out those barnycules from the intimate little cracks and folds of the transom assembly will of course be missed.
As will lying down in the wet with a jet wash to get to them.
Always loved buying those tiny weeny little tins of special antifoul you MUST use and do not forget to leave a clear inch around the transom assembly .. or else !

Next...............................

Trading up, the chap with the S41 is looking at a Princess 380 on shafts and the other chap with the 290s on his boat has replaced his boat with a smaller Fairline Corniche 31, on shafts , we are bringing it back from Dover over the weekend.
The chap with the outdrives that no longer come out of the water just wants something, anything with shafts. .

As for those Targas, there was always a dozen hanging on the pontoons at Cherrytree and if the outdrives failed they probably just grabbed other while it was being fixed. Cannot recall ever seeing one out in the estuary , can get bit rough out there, best used in calmer waters ?

 

[James L]

The absence of outdrive repair bills and that tiresome rubberware change palaver most certainly was.
Not having to dig out those barnycules from the intimate little cracks and folds of the transom assembly will of course be missed.
As will lying down in the wet with a jet wash to get to them.
Always loved buying those tiny weeny little tins of special antifoul you MUST use and do not forget to leave a clear inch around the transom assembly .. or else !

OG - it might be pretty informative if you could tell us what repairs (other than routine servicing) you had to do to your outdrives in the 8 years.

 

[Chris_d]

OG - it might be pretty informative if you could tell us what repairs (other than routine servicing) you had to do to your outdrives in the 8 years.

If you have read his posts over the years there are various rants about repairing shaft drive chocolate gearboxes, bent shafts, p-bracket repairs and difficult cutlass bearing removals etc....

Whilst I understand his various Outdrive rants and issues all boats need regular maintenance, but shafts do allow a few more years neglect before the swearing starts

 

[oldgit]

Whilst I understand his various Outdrive rants and issues all boats need regular maintenance, but shafts do allow a few more years neglect before the swearing starts

Every year with outdrives or......Ahem .......................when you are temporarily unsure of your position with shafts


Did we mention in previous rants
Sealine 33 both legs replaced ,(beyond repair) £6K
Bavaria 32 . major repairs to both legs £8K
Princess 30Ds leg broke up on passage. £?? . Good job somebody with shafts was round to tow him back to safety. ?
Ask Murv of this forum about his outdrive on his first boat.
Boats are slowly starting to move again on our moorings, after 18 months of inactivity be interesting to see which will be heading straight out to sea and which will be heading for a outdrive repair bill.
Anybody taking bets .

 

[oldgit]

OG - it might be pretty informative if you could tell us what repairs (other than routine servicing) you had to do to your outdrives in the 8 years.

It was outboards all the way until it all started to go wrong in about 1980 with pair of Black Anchors on the back of petrol powered Regal.
After that........... How long have you got ?

 

[BruceK]

You guys are just feeding the monster If OG didn't have something to gnaw on he'd just find something else.

Why I like outdrives? Simple. I'm cheap and dont believe in cranes unless absolutely necessary and certainly not for maintenance of penny parts and their replacement

 

[oldgit]

You guys are just feeding the monster If OG didn't have something to gnaw on he'd just find something else.

Why I like outdrives? Simple. I'm cheap and dont believe in cranes unless absolutely necessary and certainly not for maintenance of penny parts and their replacement

 

[madabouttheboat]

I could recount the story of a man I know that bought a nearly new 50 footer with around 60 hours on its shaft drive engines. By the time the boat reached 90 hours, it required two replacement gearboxes. I could have paid off my mortgage with the bill that was presented to him at the end of it. No help from the boat or engine manufacture, despite the young age and low hours. The worst I could face is a bill of around £10k for two complete drives. My friend would have been over the moon if his bill had only been £10K

 

[Moodysailor]

As for those Targas, there was always a dozen hanging on the pontoons at Cherrytree and if the outdrives failed they probably just grabbed other while it was being fixed. Cannot recall ever seeing one out in the estuary , can get bit rough out there, best used in calmer waters ?

I did state that they kept spare drives in stock (not robbed from another boat) - but they also kept spare jets, buckets & impellers, complete inboard transmissions, shaft, P-brackets and props too. The spares inventory at the Met marine police back in the day was very impressive - as I said, every propulsion method was a "when" failure due to the debris in the Thames and their type of use.

And have you seen a Botnia Targa, they are quite different from the Fairline ones! The boats would travel from Poole to London on their own hulls mostly - they are called the 4x4 of the sea for a reason, no issue with a few waves for them, they can handle much tougher conditions that most.

 

[James L]

It was outboards all the way until it all started to go wrong in about 1980 with pair of Black Anchors on the back of petrol powered Regal.
After that........... How long have you got ?

sorry, you've lost me completely.

Surely with all the posts you've made about outdrives you actually have a list of problems you've had ready to go.

I don't think we need to worry too much about any outdrive from 1980, if they're as bad as you say there'll be none around 40 years later.

Lets say from 1990 onwards, as it seems a few current outdrive designs are from around that time.

 

[BruceK]

Really? You just took his dummy right out his mouth. Brace yourself!!

 

[oldgit]

I did state that they kept spare drives in stock (not robbed from another boat) - but they also kept spare jets, buckets & impellers, complete inboard transmissions, shaft, P-brackets and props too. The spares inventory at the Met marine police back in the day was very impressive - as I said, every propulsion method was a "when" failure due to the debris in the Thames and their type of use.

And have you seen a Botnia Targa, they are quite different from the Fairline ones! The boats would travel from Poole to London on their own hulls mostly - they are called the 4x4 of the sea for a reason, no issue with a few waves for them, they can handle much tougher conditions that most.

Am familiar with the Police Targas that moor at Wapping have even had one or two come alongside for security checks during past excursions into the Thames on passage to Teddington.
4 x4 of the Sea. ?
One might remember the Volvo ads from years ago stating just how safe the Volvo car was, it was of course no better than much else around at the time , but the PR myth stuck.
First Transocean 37 similar to mine was delivered on its own keel from the builders yard to the 1973 boat show in some pretty crap weather , got the MBM boat report to prove it, would I say it was good sea boat, Naa, like most Brooms it rolled like pig in beam seas and hard work to keep in straight line in a quartering sea.
The Princess 33 with o******* s was even worse all the weight at the back, a butterfly flapping its wings 100miles away would send it veering off course.
We can agree on something, also very familar with the other type of Targa and yes they are different.
This is a chums T 43, he did previously have a T37 with outdrives , he got rid of that fairly quickly.

 

[oldgit]

Really? You just took his dummy right out his mouth. Brace yourself!!

.
Boat is out for its yearly scrub up shortly .
Have everything ready .
Two 4 kilo bar anodes
Two ring anodes
2 tins of A/F.
..............and a reel of masking tape.
Couple of hours should do nicely.

.

 

[James L]

.
Boat is out for its yearly scrub up shortly .
Have everything ready .
Two 4 kilo bar anodes
Two ring anodes
2 tins of A/F.
..............and a reel of masking tape.
Couple of hours should do nicely.

.

I take it from that, that the extra anodes on the O/Ds and spraying the can of antifoul where a major problem for you?