Volvo TAMD61A engine problems.

[superheat6k]

These are insulated return to - all the switching is done internally. For the two wire version, the wires are simply + and -. Apply 12v to the positive and it energises the pull in coil. At the top of its stroke, the plunger hits a changeover switch which cuts power to the pull in and applies power to the hold in.

The later solid state three wire version still does all the switching internally, but needs an additional permanent 12v feed for some reason. So you have permanent +, switched + and - wires. Needs the extra permanent 12v wire adding if using this version on an older engine built with the two wire version.

Sorry if I'm not explaining this too well, it makes sense when you take one apart

And I'm too embarrassed to mention the time I'd left my lower helm keys in the stop position overnight and couldn't work out why the engines wouldn't start from the upper helm the next day. I'd got as far as stripping fuel filters before I accidentally touched one of the stop solenoids to find it warm.......

I never realised these were that clever. One to bear in mind next time my engines won't start though !

Happy New Year to all on here - the new season is coming to a Marina / Boatyard / River / etc near you !

 

[Latestarter1]

All sounds a little complicated.

On Cummins B and C engines with either Bosch P7100 or Nippon Denso in line pumps use a Syncrostart three wire solenoid which looks very similar to the V.P set up.

The Sycrostart solenoid simply has two coils, a continuously rated hold coil and intermittent pull coil.

The hold solenoid is permanently 'hot' when you are keyed on, the pull coil is energised via the starter circuit, hit the starter button and shutdown lever is pulled open and held in position once starter coil is de-energised.

The Syncrostart pull in coil was originally not noted as being robust if engine was cranked over for an extended period to for example bleed the fuel system and many a tec would simply pull the solenoid plug and slip an elastic band over the shutdown lever if bleeding the engine.

Syncrostart seemed to get their act together and make the pull in coil more robust.

However if you search under Cummins shutdown switch on Ebay throws up plenty of Syncrostart knock offs from China between £30-50.

 

[rosssavage]

So the Cummins is energise to run?

One of the great things about these old Volvo lumps is the energise to stop. That means once running, you can suffer a complete electrical failure and the engines keep running - you only need power to stop them (although you can manually pull the stop levers too). That and the gear driven camshaft / pumps make for a reliable engine

 

[Latestarter1]

So the Cummins is energise to run?

One of the great things about these old Volvo lumps is the energise to stop. That means once running, you can suffer a complete electrical failure and the engines keep running - you only need power to stop them (although you can manually pull the stop levers too). That and the gear driven camshaft / pumps make for a reliable engine

Cummins leisure rated mechanical engines ATR (Activate to run) as standard however they have option of ATS (Activate to stop). Commercial mechanical ratings are ATS as standard.

Once you move on to modern electronic engines EUI or common rail of any color engines are ATR.

Old Cummins PT engines have always been ATR including VTA 903's in US Coastguard lifeboats or the hundreds of trawlers with single KT19's.

 

[rosssavage]

It's funny - common rail diesels are great (my next car will be one), aviation (my industry) is utterly dependent on power to keep engines running, but I just really, really like the idea of simple old mechanical engines in my boat. Maybe I'm worried some other part of the 30yr old vessel will let me down at exactly the wrong time, but simple is best!

 

[Jcorstorphine]

Slight thread drift but one of the few features I liked about the old Volvo MD2B was that it was ATS by a bowden cable. Taking that concept a stage further and away from boats, I designed and built a number of diesel driven emergency water pumps which were employed to keep induction melting furnaces cool in the event of a power cut or loss of main water cooling. To make sure these engines ( Perkins 100 series) kept going I removed the fuel solenoid plunger so that the production guys had to actually go out to the Pump room and pull the stop lever (keep it simple) That way it could not be shut down by accident leaving a very expensive vacuum induction melting coils as scrap. On the same vein, I have thought about removing the solenoid plunger from my CAV injection pump and just use the mechanical stop lever, would be just one less thing to go wrong.

 

[volvopaul]

It's funny - common rail diesels are great (my next car will be one), aviation (my industry) is utterly dependent on power to keep engines running, but I just really, really like the idea of simple old mechanical engines in my boat. Maybe I'm worried some other part of the 30yr old vessel will let me down at exactly the wrong time, but simple is best!

I'd keep well away from common rail cars if you can, we have 3, 2 Audis and a VW van , all subject to the emissions scandal .
The van has been a nightmare of late, now showing 88000 miles 5 years old and one pilot from new (me). Been ok on its own but going into limp on rallies towing the car, two garages giving different answers both wrong, in the end it went to Lanerboys garage at Burton on Trent , was diagnosed very quickly costing a mere £26 part yet two other garages failed to diagnose .

Then the A4 same engine now playing up boost control 33000 miles 6 years old. My advise keep away.

 

[lynall]

I'd keep well away from common rail cars if you can, we have 3, 2 Audis and a VW van , all subject to the emissions scandal .
The van has been a nightmare of late, now showing 88000 miles 5 years old and one pilot from new (me). Been ok on its own but going into limp on rallies towing the car, two garages giving different answers both wrong, in the end it went to Lanerboys garage at Burton on Trent , was diagnosed very quickly costing a mere £26 part yet two other garages failed to diagnose .

Then the A4 same engine now playing up boost control 33000 miles 6 years old. My advise keep away.

I would hazard a guess any modern ish diesel car will be common rail, so going to be difficult to avoid.

 

[rosssavage]

Interesting. I don't need diesel, but thought it would be cheaper to run.... Maybe not so, especially as my budget gets no where near a new car!

Looking at BMW's (it would be my fifth) and there doesn't seem to be many horror stories about their M57 3.0 TD. Usual stuff about blown turbos on uncared for cars...

 

[SEVEN RODS]

Ok very useful this thread, I read with anticipation it would resolve my issue.I puzzled with my solenoid...I stopped the engine at sea and it then failed to start.i quickly realised that it was the solenoid that WAS not disengaging!!!!
I released the linkage to make it so and started up. Reading the threads I was puzzled as my issue was starting not stopping.i
I have taken the solenoid off after doing a 17 stone limbo and yoga class in the bilges to get everything off. Still puzzled as I could see nothing really wrong with solenoid Or anything else.I then noticed the loose 10ml nut on the linkage that turns off/on the fuel....it was hanging!! So much play ..I am pretty sure this is my problem, I bet it would cause one to not be able to stop in another scenario. Check the linkeage!!!

 

[SEVEN RODS]

Hello to you all and wishing everyone stress free boating in 2016.

I have a problem with the stop solenoid on my Volvo TAMD 61A of 1988 vintage.
for a considerable time the original worked only about fifty per cent of shut downs
finally giving up completely .
A new Volvo unit is priced at £440 and I wonder if anyone has sourced and fitted a non Volvo unit,
if so perhaps you could give details.

Have same engine see my reply further down in my case it needed a 10ml spanner to tighten the nut on the linkage on the fuel cut off ..it was so loose !!! I had too much play and the damn thing stayed in the stop position.

 

[SEVEN RODS]

Put it back together today and it's working perfect. Would advise anyone to check the 10mm bolt, as discussed. I didn't notice it was so loose originally...cheap resolution.. Happy days good fishing!!!