Volvo/Merc

[BarryH]

Have a chance of getting hold of a V6 Mercruiser 205 and alpha drive at a very reasonable price. The engine is in good nick as is the drive, I know the history of the engine as it is in the remains of a Friends boat.

Now the problem that I have is that the hole in the transom of my boat that has a Vilvo 280 drive in it. Its too big for the Merc drive. Don't like the Idea of filling the hole and recutting for the Merc. I dont think the strength will be there and the finish will always be noticable between the gelcoats. The engine bearers won't be too much of a problem to sort.

Can't see a problem with the extra horse's in the engine bay. I've spoken to Tremlett and they say the hull is good for 275hp. So going from 145hp to 205hp should give me the extra turn of speed I'm looking for and increase the cruising speed without killing the range too much. Anyway a V6 sounds better than a 4 pot any day.

So the question is, What do you think is possible that will give a decent finish and not look like a hash job. I know I could couple the engine to the existing drive, but would like to have the alpha drive if poss as its got power trim and the Vilvo doesn't.



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[DepSol]

Make sure you work out the x measurement first.

<hr width=100% size=1>Dom

2003 is going to be a good year for me

 

[BarryH]

Dom, I've seen other Tremletts with this set up before. So working on that, if the builder put them in I can't go far wrong. Would like a V8, but haven't got the room in the engine bay. Its about 2 inches too short and I'm not moving bulkheads!

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[byron]

<font color=blue>You should be able to match up so it looks good and not as if I had done it. You can always get someone who's good at that sort of thing to do a 'finish' for you or even put a stainless steel plate over the whole thing and cover it that way.

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[DepSol]

yes but best to make sure the transom is at the right height for the Merc otherwise you could have more problems later, might just mean getting different height mounting blocks.

<hr width=100% size=1>Dom

2003 is going to be a good year for me

 

[BarryH]

Dom, looked at that already. The volvo drive is slightly longer than the Alpha. If anything it should improve things as the anticavitation plate will now be running at the same level as the keel. Wheras the 280's is just below the keel. The angle of the transom is only 10 degrees off the vertical so is within the specs of the alpha according to merc.

Byron, now theres an idea. The stainless, or rather getting an adapter plate cut by and engineering firm. You've planted a seed there mate, cheers.

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[tr7v8]

Barry, their is an adapter plate specifically for this purpose. Funnily enough Merc make one to adapt Volvo 'oles but not vic versa! maybe that means someting. Spoke to Merc techies (US guy) at the LBS about converting to 1.7L diesels and he said cost of adapter and cost of professional filling 'ole is about the same. Filling the hole and recutting with some ply reinforcement is actually fairly straight forward and probably the way I'd go about it.

PS Did you get my PM, will collect one from Mr Neighbour tomorrow, so thanks for the offer.

Jim
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[BarryH]

Ah! so they make an adapter do they, that interesting might look into that. I suppose its a merc bit and priced accordingly! Filling and recutting was my first thought, but still unsure wether it'll be stong enough. You can't really butt join marine ply and get a good strong joint and the adapter would be alot quicker.

As for those 1.7 diesels, yuk spit spit. GM/rover lumps. I can't see hoe they get 140hp out of them, even with the turbo. They must be running on the limit, I would have thought.

Not a prob about the gas cylinder, they can sit in the garage with the rest of the crap I've got to sort out.

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[tr7v8]

Standard technique is to laminate another piece of ply full width of transom, grind out existing holes so its a vee and cut ply plates to fit the oles. Glass these in the fill in remaining vee with more glass and tape. New drive will fit through new inner transom and filled holes. Price of converter is bloody steep from what I remember.

The 1.7 is actually an Izusu/GM diesel, don't know about Rover. The reason they can get more horses is that they are fresh wate cooled so all that cold sea water can be put through the intercooler. Shame they didn't use the 2Litre though.
Gives 90Hp in the car so with the better cooling should't be a problem.
Coming up with the dosh for a pai is a much bigger prob! Will maybe look at the Trannie 2.5's but unsure which ones are which.

Jim
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[BarryH]

The new Puma engine from the new Trannie looks to be a good conversion. I looked at it at the boat show. Will mate to your existing drives as well. Its that old nugget of a standard answer again, Lancing do the marinizing bits for it or can do the whole thing ready to bolt in.

If I go the fill and re cut route. I'll think I'll get the job done by someone who knows what they are doing. Its got to be worth the money as one day I might even sell the old girl to get something else.

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[tr7v8]

I've not done it on boats but have had experience of GRP fabrication on cars.
Plenty of books around show how to do it & you could always get a surveyor to check and certify your work.

The Puma is quite good and 30Kg lighter than the 2.5 not sure what sort of money it works out to, if you DIY because it's uprated by Lancing a well as marinised. The 2.5 is going to be more available but seems to come in various versions, might ring around at sometime and see what scrappies want for them.

Jim
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[Col]

I've heard about those adapters too. Another possibility is to get 290 drive from someone line Coastal rides, PX your old drive for it. Volvo also used the GM 4.3 V6, so it shouldn't be a problem to get correct ratios. I've had Alphas and Volvos. I'd go fo Volvo personally.

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[Col]

By the way. Hope you've done a proper risk assesment on this conversion. Have you researched which bolts to use, and the proper torque settings. If I were you I would see what the RYA has to say on the matter. You may have to upgrade the engine mounts to Cummins ones to take extra HP, although Sabre, or Seatek might be suitable. Best check it out.

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[BarryH]

Was only asking about the drive swop as the engine and drive would only have cost me £500. The thought of the 290 had crossed my mind, but I would have had the alpha anyway. I'll wait and mull it over for a bit. The adapter seemed an easy way round the problem of the differece in the cut out sizes.

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[BarryH]

The only risk assesmnt I have to do is wether aztec can barrel roll the thing with the bigger engine. He's got the power to do it now!

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[longjohnsilver]

Why not give Tremletts a ring, expect you know they're based in Topsham.

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[Col]

There would be other differences, but a man of your calibre could soon get round it. Seawater pump, being one of them. Def go for "cream" over "black" any day. Alphas gave me nothing but grief. Those bludy dog clutches... mutter...mutter....moan.....moan.

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[BarryH]

Longjohn, Phoned them. They reckon the hull that I have is good for 275hp. They have built one or two where the customer spec'd 300 horses. Nice, but my bum wouldn't handle that!

Col, that did cross my nind. Never been a fan of the raw water pump in the leg. If it goes wrong while your out on the water, basically you can't do anything but rely on a small outboard. At least with the volvo you can get to it and carry spare impellers, or as I do a complete water pump. Less friggin' about.

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[BarryH]

Right chaps, done a bit of hunting this morning. The adapter plate thing. The Merc one is £410+vat, but I have found out that Lancing do their own one, which is basicaaly the same thing, for £200+vat. Not a bad saving. So going that route the engine swop would cost me roughly 700 quid and loads of spanner spinning on my part.

Using a second hand 290 drive, part exchanging my existing, would cost me around the 700 mark. I would be able to use the Merc trim pump on that as its the same as the volvo one. Add to that a raw water pump for the engine and you can add another 400 quid to that. So that route in total would be 1600 quid and loads of me spinning the spanners.

The fill the hole and re cut route. Conflicting stories here. One chap I spoke to said 'umm, well its possible, but I wont gaurentee the work and it'll cost you in the region of 300 quid'. The other guy on the other hand said 'yep, no probs when yer wanit done and it'll cost yer 900 sovs mate'

So on the whole it looks like the adapter plate thing will be the way to go, but ditching the pump in the leg and working out how to mount a pump on the engine. I'll just have to put up with the crunch crunch merc dog clutches!

Oh, nearly forgot, tr7v8, the pumaT lump from lancing comes in at just over £5400+vat for the ready to go bolt in job. The kit for the tranny 2.5 comes in at £1791+vat, but you've got to add the cost of your base engine as well. If you want the price lists and all the gumph I've got it here clogging the magazine rack.

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[spannerman]

I work for a mercruiser dealer and have pulled out over 20 Volvo lumps and installed all types of Mercruiser engines using the adapter. It is designed to give you the right drive height as there are tables included to establish where to mount it. It requires the Volvo hole to be enlarged a little so you have some lattitude as to what height you can use. As regards the 1.7 all I can say don't knock it till you have tried it, it developes 112 hp at the prop and after installing 7 of these I know its a good unit. The new owners suddenly find that having gone from a 3.0 petrol they now have a real jump in performance. Fitted two in a Draco 25 Twin Cab which is a heavily built boat, before it had 2 x 3.0l and a total 240hp. Now it has 2 x 1.7l and a total of 224hp and its faster, it does 38 kts on the GPS. It will blow away any 4 cyl Merc or Volvo petrol, what it lacks in hp it makes up in torque, bucket loads of it!


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