Volvo d4 225 or Volvo penta 230hp

[volvopaul]

The boat is a given Paul, Antares 9, all shaft drive, no out drive options were ever offered. the OP is simply asking about differences in the two engines.

Sorry David I didnt realise you were the referee on this post, ill add no more incase it offends you.

 

[Latestarter1]

Se your points.

In Norway MGO is tax free so all are using this. It contains particles that destroy fuel valves. I know suppliers that add on 12 ekstra fuel filers to avoid particles destroying their parts.

Most common reason for CR engines not to start is no pressure build up in rail. No alarms no indication. The question is:

How many customers are starting up troubleshooting on their own trying to find root course? They dont know if there are a blown fuse fuel starvation or a leaking injektor!

I think above 80% of D4 owners are going to their dealer. Then they have to pay the dealer price of a injector or whatever failing part. VP price is high!



In the kad you can hear the stop solinoid and easily se the return flow from the fuel pump. In 99% of cases the engine vill run.

Well people are different. Hopefully there will be a lot of used KAD engines to a low prise on the used marked. If somebody have a KAD32 i have a boat for it!

"KAD 43 Hp is to fanciful ISO 8665 numbers.

D4 power is to far more realistic ISO 3046. Comparisons based on two different ISO standards are valueless. "

The KAD43 power is ISO 3046 Fuel stop power 40deg fuel and dens 840g/l Attached

Ulyden,

I respect the fact that you are a professional engineer and have no intention to offend........However I suspect that what you portray as facts, is acually what we referred to in the U.S as 'dock talk'. I think you gave this away with your comments regarding start up smoke, suspect you have never been on a boat with D4/6 in it.

Have taken the trouble to troll though data on the D Series in service performance in the US since engine was first released. All reference to D4/6 on Boatdiesel since launch. Emailed people and contacted a senior VP guy in North America, all in order to make sense of your comments.

U.S. is the worlds largest marine leasure market and boaters accrue far larger annual hours than we do in Europe. In addition typical owners holler real loud when they hit problems.

I have found NOTHING to support your contentions. Once you wade through mass of DPH **** engine appears to be doing a real good job.

Early reports of campaign on HX end caps and ECU recalibration, then around 2006/7 number of reports of melted pistons, about the same time that I was involved in a D6 piston failure in Scotland. Piston failures dried up late 2007, nothing since.

I have even had reply from outfit using number of D6-310's in commercial parasailing tow boats, lowest hours 9,000, highest 16,000 with just one major failure when turbo shaft snapped.

Reports of failed injectors, CP3 pumps, nothing, nowt, zilch.

People here deserve better, they are making big $$ purchases and want to be well informed and looking for good reliable first hand experiences, certainly not 'dock talk'.

I would suggest that unless you can offer properly documented and unbiased reports as opposed an anecdotal view you should really butt out.

D4/6 appears from all accounts to be doing a fine job in the marine leasure market and that comes from a dyed in the wool Cummins man.

ps I have email stating that prior to introduction of new D Series performance graphs were to ISO 8665, however I need to dig it out.

 

[scottie]

LS

You are in danger of spoiling the fun by using proven information and being able to back it .
Dock talk as you call it is far better for getting our ill informed out of date prejudiced "facts" across and accepted as gospel.

Thank you for your impartial comments

Maybe more European boatbuilders should use volvo,s white paint option just to confuse people.

 

[ulyden]

Sorry. I give up.

But I have a Common rail engine standing 10m from my office and i can play with it every day, measuring smoke,emissions and even have a camera to se the smoke comming out from the tailpipe. I know the advantages and whats not so good. Fired up my first fully elektronik engine 20 years ago. CR we have had last 14year.

I read different boat forumsi can se problems with broken rail pipes and failing ecus.I also understand why you are defending this. But my world is true marine engines, not a cheap converted LT engine wich make profit all the chain.

I dont mind, the tread started with the difference betveen a KAD43 and a D4 225. I think everybody can make ut their mind without this discussion.
I missed about the weight sorry for that!

 

[Latestarter1]

Hand on heart, have you actually been aboard a Volvo D4/6 powered vessel, witnessed cold start performance, or perhaps run one in a test cell???

 

[ulyden]

Never tested it against water brake. We have a DEUTZ made Volvo penta in a fork lift- at work. Different stroke and uncooled exhaust. D6E i think it is. So i se the smoke at startup. I also know ve had to pay 12000£for new nozzles because we used MGO on it.

I have been in boats with D4 (Taxi boats) Engine hours 2000 one replaced.
Outdrives 1000h each. If you could read Norvegian is a lot of treads about modern engines failing and people that uses months to repair it.

But I se a lot of diesel engines starting up. Its always easy to fix problems that does not eksist. (Startup smoke havent been a issue last 30years for new diesel engines)

I realy don't se the cause of the strong feelings and attack on me. Lots of people choose different cars. I might go to a petrol type next time and have my arguments for that. All things have its positive and negative sides.

Take my arguments instead of my "dock talk". What about the crusing speed. Is that true or not? Is the performance curve somthing wrong with? Took it from a penta site. Is the D4 easier to trouble shoot when it don't start? Is parent bore an advantage on a leasure engine exspected to last 30 year? In a marine envirement?
What about nozzles. I was planning to buy a BMW 530d. I was reading about misfiering engines that had to be repared for a lot more than i can expect so save in fuel consumtion. I'm I totaly wrong?

 

[GeorgX]

The reason I mentioned drives is simple.

The kad has dpe/dpg drive.

The d4 has the dph and no other combination unless its a shaft drive boat which will help the OP come to a decision as to what he buys.

The parts that wear on the dpe are cost effctive, ie steering bushes an a seal £20.00 max per drive, the steering ram is inside the boat so not prone to problems.

The dph is a different story, 2 rams per set up at £450.00 each, they last maybe 2 seasons, when the leak they suck in sea water which in turn wrecks the power steering pump, I dont have current price but its £££££.

A contributing factor to a decision as to what motor to buy.

Gravedigging...

Would you say the same about the D3-DPS drives?

 

[volvopaul]

Gravedigging...

Would you say the same about the D3-DPS drives?

No the DPSX is a totally different drive to the DPH and DPE , it’s an old sort of copy of the old OMC set up.
Drive shaft sits supported in a gimball bearing which is a service item , they don’t allow water in at the same rate as the other two, is limited in its capabilities of taking high hp that’s why it’s mated to the D3 and the kad 32.
As with any purchase if your not sure what your looking at employ someone who does.

Btw this is an old post you have resurrected, my price quotes in a previous post are null and void .

 

[ari]

Might be worth considering resale too. The KAD series engines came in mid nineties and went out of production in 2005? So buy a boat with one now, and if/when you come to sell it in (say) 5 years time you're selling a boat with three decade old technology that went out of production two decades ago. Maybe a bit offputting for potential buyers?

Personally I think I'd go for the more current engine. Quite apart from all the advantages of a more modern engine (fuel consumption, emissions etc), there's a better chance of plentiful parts and knowledgable dealers going forward.

 

[scottie]

Might be worth considering resale too. The KAD series engines came in mid nineties and went out of production in 2005? So buy a boat with one now, and if/when you come to sell it in (say) 5 years time you're selling a boat with three decade old technology that went out of production two decades ago. Maybe a bit offputting for potential buyers?

Personally I think I'd go for the more current engine. Quite apart from all the advantages of a more modern engine (fuel consumption, emissions etc), there's a better chance of plentiful parts and knowledgable dealers going forward.

So from this the whole thing is irrelevant as he will have sold the boat by now

 

[BruceK]

I can only look at this from my own experience and that is there is only one D engine in the Welsh Mob, the rest are KADs. KAD owners go out and explore the waters every weekend while the D owner sits and polishes his Marina Queen every weekend and has to be dragged out under duress. We can only assume D engines must be fragile. :encouragement:
So, what type of boater are you? The choice is simple.

KADs vs D in moving pictures......

after running a few donuts about the D this is the owners response

 

[GeorgX]

No the DPSX is a totally different drive to the DPH and DPE , it’s an old sort of copy of the old OMC set up.
Drive shaft sits supported in a gimball bearing which is a service item , they don’t allow water in at the same rate as the other two, is limited in its capabilities of taking high hp that’s why it’s mated to the D3 and the kad 32.
As with any purchase if your not sure what your looking at employ someone who does.

Btw this is an old post you have resurrected, my price quotes in a previous post are null and void .

So the DPS is plagued by fewer problems and cheaper to maintain than both the DPE/DPG and the DPH?

Have the DPH problems been solved by the updated parts sold by VP?