BrendanS
Well-known member
Yeah, but would still like Mike's comment on the situation, as he is far better placed to second guess future developments than either you or I
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VHF on Ebay
- Thread starter Bottle_of_Rum
- Start date
Heckler
Active member
Brendan, so all is not quite what it seems
i mean i stuck my head over the parapet on the jon brooks post and got quite a lot of flack from certain quarters ( not you i hasten to add) and was accused of banging on, but it would appear that even the regulatory authority doesnt know.
if it wasnt for people like me who wont have smoke blown up their arse by people just shooting from the hip we would all accept what we are told and go quietly back to our corners and be good little boys for the little hitlers who are increasingly trying to run our lives.
several thoughts and i think i'll start a fresh post, G stands for GLOBAL so these sets are designed to be used GLOBALLY even if they are sold for the american market. so they will transmit and recieve globally and it doesnt take a rocket scientist to work out from that that they will talk to others GLOBALLY, and the second thought is that in the early 70s CB radios were not allowed in this country, we were still in the dark ages as far as radio licensing went, people wanted to use them and the government sadi no, some people said sod this and started importing and using american CB radios, civil disobediance raised its ugly head and the country was overwhelmed with them, the authorities couldnt catch and prosecute them all and lo and behold a spectrum was allocated and we can now use CBs. officialdom had to have its pound of flesh by making the frequency different but hey thats the way of the world. government agencies and businesses should get their heads around something, you can bluster and threaten and harass people but eventually they will say enough is enough and if they cant change things because people wont listen then they will take the law into their own hands! and hey businesses, market forces do work.
stu
stu
<hr width=100% size=1>http://www.beneteau-owners-association.org.uk
i mean i stuck my head over the parapet on the jon brooks post and got quite a lot of flack from certain quarters ( not you i hasten to add) and was accused of banging on, but it would appear that even the regulatory authority doesnt know.
if it wasnt for people like me who wont have smoke blown up their arse by people just shooting from the hip we would all accept what we are told and go quietly back to our corners and be good little boys for the little hitlers who are increasingly trying to run our lives.
several thoughts and i think i'll start a fresh post, G stands for GLOBAL so these sets are designed to be used GLOBALLY even if they are sold for the american market. so they will transmit and recieve globally and it doesnt take a rocket scientist to work out from that that they will talk to others GLOBALLY, and the second thought is that in the early 70s CB radios were not allowed in this country, we were still in the dark ages as far as radio licensing went, people wanted to use them and the government sadi no, some people said sod this and started importing and using american CB radios, civil disobediance raised its ugly head and the country was overwhelmed with them, the authorities couldnt catch and prosecute them all and lo and behold a spectrum was allocated and we can now use CBs. officialdom had to have its pound of flesh by making the frequency different but hey thats the way of the world. government agencies and businesses should get their heads around something, you can bluster and threaten and harass people but eventually they will say enough is enough and if they cant change things because people wont listen then they will take the law into their own hands! and hey businesses, market forces do work.
stu
stu
<hr width=100% size=1>http://www.beneteau-owners-association.org.uk
numenius
New member
There's an easy rule of thumb when your unsure if a product is legal in the UK (works every time):
Q. Is it cutting edge, guaranteed for longer than in the UK, cheaper than here in the UK, works everywhere in the world, could it save your life?
A.If the answer to all of these is YES, then the government and/or EU (but don't worry, that particular definition is getting to be a moot point) says you can't have one.
<hr width=100% size=1>http://members.lycos.co.uk/boaty1965/index.htm
Q. Is it cutting edge, guaranteed for longer than in the UK, cheaper than here in the UK, works everywhere in the world, could it save your life?
A.If the answer to all of these is YES, then the government and/or EU (but don't worry, that particular definition is getting to be a moot point) says you can't have one.
<hr width=100% size=1>http://members.lycos.co.uk/boaty1965/index.htm
Heckler
Active member
im going to the pub
now, several pints of lager and i'll see you lot later
stu
<hr width=100% size=1>http://www.beneteau-owners-association.org.uk
now, several pints of lager and i'll see you lot later
stu
<hr width=100% size=1>http://www.beneteau-owners-association.org.uk
BrendanS
Well-known member
Re: Brendan, so all is not quite what it seems
Stu,
Are you one of those people who thing that the US moon landings never happened, and that it was all a great conspiracy theory? /forums/images/icons/laugh.gif
Brendan
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Stu,
Are you one of those people who thing that the US moon landings never happened, and that it was all a great conspiracy theory? /forums/images/icons/laugh.gif
Brendan
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G
Guest
Guest
Quoting CB is a bit different .....
Why ? Because CB was actually breaking into another reas legitimate use of the frequencies.
At the time I used to fly Radio Models and illegal 27Mhz CB's were shooting down a lot of expensive models. There was a Voluntary body the SMAE that looked after us and they lobbied for alternative model frequencies and also to try and sort out the confusion. It was iterally another case of the US had taken a different route from us in allocating the 27Mhz band to CB, even though it had already been allocated to Models on the other side of the pond.
The UK govt were daft - they tried the UK stunt of a completely NEW frequency band for CB, making the sets more expensive, limited in range and generally unwanted !!! So 27Mhz sets still flooded in.
Finally Models moved to 35Mhz and the 27Mhz band was accepted to be ground models ...... in fact 27 can be used on any model, but 35 Mhz is flying models only.
Some of you lot out there may consider models toys - but they are serious bits of kit - expensive and lovingly built. They are bloody dangerous if out of control and it really started to get hazardous at times .......
<hr width=100% size=1>Nigel ...
Bilge Keelers get up further ! I only came - cos they said there was FREE Guinness !
Why ? Because CB was actually breaking into another reas legitimate use of the frequencies.
At the time I used to fly Radio Models and illegal 27Mhz CB's were shooting down a lot of expensive models. There was a Voluntary body the SMAE that looked after us and they lobbied for alternative model frequencies and also to try and sort out the confusion. It was iterally another case of the US had taken a different route from us in allocating the 27Mhz band to CB, even though it had already been allocated to Models on the other side of the pond.
The UK govt were daft - they tried the UK stunt of a completely NEW frequency band for CB, making the sets more expensive, limited in range and generally unwanted !!! So 27Mhz sets still flooded in.
Finally Models moved to 35Mhz and the 27Mhz band was accepted to be ground models ...... in fact 27 can be used on any model, but 35 Mhz is flying models only.
Some of you lot out there may consider models toys - but they are serious bits of kit - expensive and lovingly built. They are bloody dangerous if out of control and it really started to get hazardous at times .......
<hr width=100% size=1>Nigel ...
Bilge Keelers get up further ! I only came - cos they said there was FREE Guinness !
Bergman
New member
Not sure I agree:
If the answers are in the documentation then why is there not a clear and simple statement from the RA saying something like "these things are illegal and if you use one we'll prosecute"
Certainly ignorance of the law is no excuse when you break the law, but the point is that the RA are supposed to ENFORCE the law. How can you do that without a clear understanding of what that law is?
Agree about not picking and choosing which laws to obey but where the enforcement authority does not know what the law is then it is difficult for a mere user like me to choose. Don't think its an issue about democracy, more about competance of the administration.
I know that the RA are not responsible for CE marking but the legislation about some areas of radio useage most certainly refer to CE marks, so I would expect them to understand these elements of CE marking regulation.
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If the answers are in the documentation then why is there not a clear and simple statement from the RA saying something like "these things are illegal and if you use one we'll prosecute"
Certainly ignorance of the law is no excuse when you break the law, but the point is that the RA are supposed to ENFORCE the law. How can you do that without a clear understanding of what that law is?
Agree about not picking and choosing which laws to obey but where the enforcement authority does not know what the law is then it is difficult for a mere user like me to choose. Don't think its an issue about democracy, more about competance of the administration.
I know that the RA are not responsible for CE marking but the legislation about some areas of radio useage most certainly refer to CE marks, so I would expect them to understand these elements of CE marking regulation.
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MainlySteam
New member
I entirely agree Brendan (this agreeing is habit forming!) - I have asked some questions of Mike on the other thread which hopefully he will answer.
Regards
John
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Regards
John
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Heckler
Active member
Uhh
was working in algeria and the algerians that worked with me were convinced that it all happened in a studio, but moi dont be stupid, and piss taking aside one of the more thought provoking moment s of my life was when i was in kennedy years ago and was able to touch the heat shield of one of the capsules that had been up there and returned, it was interesting also that it was covered with a perspex shield to stop mere mortals like us touching it but there was a space where it didnt quite cover it and it had been worn away by the thousands of people doing what i had done and stroked it, and going on from there the imax theatre had a movie on that i would defy any one not to be humbled by, the exploits of those astronauts is something else. i have a great admiration for america and my life has been shaped by working with americans, they taught me their work ethos and the possibility of being able to achieve whatever you want to do, maybe that is why i am such a cynic, i came from nothing and have carved out a comfortable life and style for me and mine, i am a self made man and bloody proud of it, america and americans have made me what i am.
stu
<hr width=100% size=1>http://www.beneteau-owners-association.org.uk
was working in algeria and the algerians that worked with me were convinced that it all happened in a studio, but moi dont be stupid, and piss taking aside one of the more thought provoking moment s of my life was when i was in kennedy years ago and was able to touch the heat shield of one of the capsules that had been up there and returned, it was interesting also that it was covered with a perspex shield to stop mere mortals like us touching it but there was a space where it didnt quite cover it and it had been worn away by the thousands of people doing what i had done and stroked it, and going on from there the imax theatre had a movie on that i would defy any one not to be humbled by, the exploits of those astronauts is something else. i have a great admiration for america and my life has been shaped by working with americans, they taught me their work ethos and the possibility of being able to achieve whatever you want to do, maybe that is why i am such a cynic, i came from nothing and have carved out a comfortable life and style for me and mine, i am a self made man and bloody proud of it, america and americans have made me what i am.
stu
<hr width=100% size=1>http://www.beneteau-owners-association.org.uk
Heckler
Active member
Re: Quoting CB is a bit different .....
point i am trying to make is that if there is a market, market forces will always prevail, same as chart soft ware, it used to be too expensive, now look at it, chart software developers actually helping people who used to have copies of charts.
stu
<hr width=100% size=1>http://www.beneteau-owners-association.org.uk
point i am trying to make is that if there is a market, market forces will always prevail, same as chart soft ware, it used to be too expensive, now look at it, chart software developers actually helping people who used to have copies of charts.
stu
<hr width=100% size=1>http://www.beneteau-owners-association.org.uk
yachtbits
Member
Simple Answer
regardless of the RA or whether it works or if it is class D or F, if the unit does not carry a CE mark then it is illegal to sell it in the EU. and it is that simple.
Trading standards issue, not RA or Icom or anybody else.
<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.yachtbits.co.uk>http://www.yachtbits.co.uk</A>
sales@yachtbits.co.uk
marine electrics & electronics
regardless of the RA or whether it works or if it is class D or F, if the unit does not carry a CE mark then it is illegal to sell it in the EU. and it is that simple.
Trading standards issue, not RA or Icom or anybody else.
<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.yachtbits.co.uk>http://www.yachtbits.co.uk</A>
sales@yachtbits.co.uk
marine electrics & electronics
steffen
New member
In the Netherlands....
the VHF set has to be type approved by the Dutch frequency board which is part of the ministry of Traffic and Waterworks. The same authority grands the licence to use the set and when the set is not type approved you wil not get the licence.
Hence the use of a non type approved VHF is illegal.
Happy sailing, Steffen
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the VHF set has to be type approved by the Dutch frequency board which is part of the ministry of Traffic and Waterworks. The same authority grands the licence to use the set and when the set is not type approved you wil not get the licence.
Hence the use of a non type approved VHF is illegal.
Happy sailing, Steffen
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quaelgeist2
New member
Re: In the Netherlands....
yes, but they cannot refuse the licence for a radio approved elsewhere in the EU.
For once, thanks to the EU rules and regs.
chris
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yes, but they cannot refuse the licence for a radio approved elsewhere in the EU.
For once, thanks to the EU rules and regs.
chris
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Mike_Martin
New member
Re: Quoting CB is a bit different .....
Just to illuminate further, I saw a 9ft long, jet engine propelled, metal, "model" plane at the PFA this year. I wasn't impressed until the proud operator informed me of it's approx 180 Kts on the straight and a heck of a lot more in a dive. Just imagine that coming down in your garden amongst your kids.
The interference problems caused by the US CB system also included amongst many others Domestic TV Interference.
MM
<hr width=100% size=1>Manager,
Aeronautical & Maritime Services Section,
Radiocommunications Agency
Just to illuminate further, I saw a 9ft long, jet engine propelled, metal, "model" plane at the PFA this year. I wasn't impressed until the proud operator informed me of it's approx 180 Kts on the straight and a heck of a lot more in a dive. Just imagine that coming down in your garden amongst your kids.
The interference problems caused by the US CB system also included amongst many others Domestic TV Interference.
MM
<hr width=100% size=1>Manager,
Aeronautical & Maritime Services Section,
Radiocommunications Agency
Mike_Martin
New member
Of course you will need the $140 odd dollar Ship Radio Licence because you'll be outside USTW.
I couldn't resist that one.
M
<hr width=100% size=1>Manager,
Aeronautical & Maritime Services Section,
Radiocommunications Agency
I couldn't resist that one.
M
<hr width=100% size=1>Manager,
Aeronautical & Maritime Services Section,
Radiocommunications Agency
Mike_Martin
New member
Good point ish.
National type approvals were replaced in 2001 by the R&TTE Directive (for pleasure craft) under this the radio equipment must meet the Interface Requirement (all published at www.radio.gov.uk) of the administration where it is intended to use the equipment.
M
<hr width=100% size=1>Manager,
Aeronautical & Maritime Services Section,
Radiocommunications Agency
National type approvals were replaced in 2001 by the R&TTE Directive (for pleasure craft) under this the radio equipment must meet the Interface Requirement (all published at www.radio.gov.uk) of the administration where it is intended to use the equipment.
M
<hr width=100% size=1>Manager,
Aeronautical & Maritime Services Section,
Radiocommunications Agency
AndrewB
Well-known member
R&TTE Directive
Is advice on the implications of this forthcoming, as it affects our ability to buy and use an imported set?
As a result of this thread I feel confused, and left wondering if anyone has fully established how the rules apply. It feels very much like you are suggesting 'wait-and-see' is a good plan.
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Is advice on the implications of this forthcoming, as it affects our ability to buy and use an imported set?
As a result of this thread I feel confused, and left wondering if anyone has fully established how the rules apply. It feels very much like you are suggesting 'wait-and-see' is a good plan.
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JonBrooks
New member
Re: R&TTE Directive
The answer is it is not legal to buy, install and or use radio products other than those meant for use in the UK on a UK reg vessel.
Not my rules, we don't make them just have to work to them the same as every other company making radio.
You can reg your boat in the US but as pointed out you would then be subject to a $140 (approx) ships radio licence.
The only way the US boater does not pay a licence fee is if their boat never leaves USTW.
As the boat would live in the UK, your out of USTW and then subject to the SRL.
So it may seem they get a better deal on the surface.
We all, as UK reg boaters can go anywhere all for the nominal fee we pay.
Not bad value really.
The "wait and see" is not ref changes in the rules and reg it means some thing else.
I can, at this time, say no more nor can Mike. (legal reasons)
Hope that helps
Kind regards
<hr width=100% size=1>Jon Brooks Icom UK Ltd. 01227 741741
The answer is it is not legal to buy, install and or use radio products other than those meant for use in the UK on a UK reg vessel.
Not my rules, we don't make them just have to work to them the same as every other company making radio.
You can reg your boat in the US but as pointed out you would then be subject to a $140 (approx) ships radio licence.
The only way the US boater does not pay a licence fee is if their boat never leaves USTW.
As the boat would live in the UK, your out of USTW and then subject to the SRL.
So it may seem they get a better deal on the surface.
We all, as UK reg boaters can go anywhere all for the nominal fee we pay.
Not bad value really.
The "wait and see" is not ref changes in the rules and reg it means some thing else.
I can, at this time, say no more nor can Mike. (legal reasons)
Hope that helps
Kind regards
<hr width=100% size=1>Jon Brooks Icom UK Ltd. 01227 741741
Mike_Martin
New member
Re: Quoting CB is a bit different .....
I'm defo not disagreeing with you. However, a market must be a market that is of sufficient size to make a change. A vocal minority doesn't actually make a market in itself.
Just look at the hand-portable VHF/DSC set which we stuck our necks (as an administration) out to authorise because there was an alleged market for UK vessels with no power. Every other administration refuses to allow it so it only has the UK market and no-one here wants to buy it. The problem is that the manufacturer is now counting the cost of listening to the vocal minority that said there was a need and it turned out that there isn't a market at all.
Mike
<hr width=100% size=1>Manager,
Aeronautical & Maritime Services Section,
Radiocommunications Agency
I'm defo not disagreeing with you. However, a market must be a market that is of sufficient size to make a change. A vocal minority doesn't actually make a market in itself.
Just look at the hand-portable VHF/DSC set which we stuck our necks (as an administration) out to authorise because there was an alleged market for UK vessels with no power. Every other administration refuses to allow it so it only has the UK market and no-one here wants to buy it. The problem is that the manufacturer is now counting the cost of listening to the vocal minority that said there was a need and it turned out that there isn't a market at all.
Mike
<hr width=100% size=1>Manager,
Aeronautical & Maritime Services Section,
Radiocommunications Agency
Heckler
Active member
Re: Quoting CB is a bit different .....
you missed the point, the choice should be there, if it aint people make a fuss, if they make a big enough fuss things change, if the change isnt sustainable things change again. life is like that, human nature changes "things"
human life is a bit like market forces, shit happens due to forces, if the forces change shit changes, very crudely put but true.
conservatives - labour, and eventually this lot will continue to tell enough lies and things will change,
cars in the uk are too expensive, market forces start to rule, manufacturers are forced by market forces to drop prices due to grey imports, the grey importers start to lose money, in the meantime our prices come down, the grey importers disappear.
africa, no elections, no democracy, their form of democracy is to riot and then rise up and kill the incumbant. human nature/market forces in action.
cb radios, law breakers, protest, the authorities cant cope so allow a modified form, who uses em now?
the same with yotties and electronics as is evidenced by the sheer volume of response to the ebay posts, maybe some one higher up in icom will see the response and act on it other wise their market share will start to diminish due to grey imports.
i mean we are not stupid, we all hear the talk in the club bar, american radios are cheaper, im going to buy one, and i repeat we are not stupid, contrary to what people would have us believe, they do work ok (hey their market is the most litigous people in the world), they are designed by definition to be global and to work globally.
the irresistable force of human nature/market forces (which i personally believe to be one and the same) will ensure that nothing is ever static
stu
<hr width=100% size=1>http://www.beneteau-owners-association.org.uk
you missed the point, the choice should be there, if it aint people make a fuss, if they make a big enough fuss things change, if the change isnt sustainable things change again. life is like that, human nature changes "things"
human life is a bit like market forces, shit happens due to forces, if the forces change shit changes, very crudely put but true.
conservatives - labour, and eventually this lot will continue to tell enough lies and things will change,
cars in the uk are too expensive, market forces start to rule, manufacturers are forced by market forces to drop prices due to grey imports, the grey importers start to lose money, in the meantime our prices come down, the grey importers disappear.
africa, no elections, no democracy, their form of democracy is to riot and then rise up and kill the incumbant. human nature/market forces in action.
cb radios, law breakers, protest, the authorities cant cope so allow a modified form, who uses em now?
the same with yotties and electronics as is evidenced by the sheer volume of response to the ebay posts, maybe some one higher up in icom will see the response and act on it other wise their market share will start to diminish due to grey imports.
i mean we are not stupid, we all hear the talk in the club bar, american radios are cheaper, im going to buy one, and i repeat we are not stupid, contrary to what people would have us believe, they do work ok (hey their market is the most litigous people in the world), they are designed by definition to be global and to work globally.
the irresistable force of human nature/market forces (which i personally believe to be one and the same) will ensure that nothing is ever static
stu
<hr width=100% size=1>http://www.beneteau-owners-association.org.uk
