VHF license discs

[dick_james]

Just an idle thought when my new licence disc arrived yesterday. Why don't the radio agency people make the disc a tad smaller so they fit in car tax holders. Then they wouldn't have to supply those square ones. Maybe that's just too easy.

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[philip_stevens]

That's cost effectiveness - that would not come into the equation.

<hr width=100% size=1>regards,
Philip

 

[Jimmy20V]

Far to sensible, not a chance! They would have to use the same printing process as another official body, even use a similar design to cut costs even further! Pah! Plain sillyness!!

Whatever next? not paying vat on road fuel taxes???? That would be legal!!

Thank you ladies and gennelmen, my name is Jimmy, Goodnight!



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[dickh]

And also why does the square holder have the slit for inserting the licence on the INSIDE sticky side? So you have to remove the old one to be replaced with the new one! I just cut a slit on the existing one and slip in the new licence.
I agree about the size though.

<hr width=100% size=1>dickh
I'd rather be sailing... /forums/images/icons/smile.gif

 

[Robin]

I trim ours to fit a fancy car holder which has a slide cover for replacement. Unfortunately the paper used in the licence must be too heavy since the holder regularly falls off, whearas the matching one used for the harbour dues sticker (doesn't need trimming) never falls off. I have quite a collection of the square holders, all in pristine condition, maybe I'll put them on the For Sale forum.

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[davel]

Agreed.
Mine arrived 5 mins ago and that thought occured to me.

I'm sure previous ones had the slit on the other side. I'll find out tomorrow when I get to the boat.

<hr width=100% size=1>Dave L.

 

[petery]

Until I completed this year's renewal slip, I didn't realise that you had to declare that you were using radar on the same licence application - along with SSB and Inmarsat C units etc etc.

Does anyone know if it's a legal requirement to 'licence' a radar in this way - or is it just a way of gathering statistics?

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[Mike_Martin]

Gents,

I’ll try to roll the answers all into one here.

The Ship Radio Licence is bigger than a tax disk due to the fact that it needs to be inspected by us, unlike cars, boats tend to move around a bit when at a mooring and the Agency can be inspecting from 20ft away in a RIB rather than standing next to it. So we make them as big as our stationery allows.

Although we supply a holder you obviously don’t have to use it. The holder was chosen to be as usable as possible within a very wide range of craft. I take it that none of you have open boats and that’s why you don’t get the “slit to” positioning, it’s to make the holder as water-proof as possible for those of us who helm them.

As to using DVLA’s systems, that does sound like a great idea but do you mind us charging the same? They would expect us to pay and that would have to come from your licence fee? As to the cost effective issue, have you looked at the price of a “Fishing Rod Licence“ recently??


Mike

<hr width=100% size=1>Manager,
Aeronautical & Maritime Services Section,
Radiocommunications Agency

 

[Mike_Martin]

Re: VHF licence discs

Yes I can confirm that it is a legal requirement to license a RADAR. It being a radio transmitter which is not specifically exempted by law from requiring a licence.

Of course before it was rolled into the Ship Radio Licence around 10 years ago there was a specific separate licence for a boat mounted RADAR unit. It is worth pointing out that this is why some people still refer to the "Ship Radio Licence" as a "VHF licence", there actually used to be a separate licence for each piece of kit carried on board.

Mike

<hr width=100% size=1>Manager,
Aeronautical & Maritime Services Section,
Radiocommunications Agency

 

[Peppermint]

Re: If you want to save us some cash

Why don't you get your threatening letter department under control. Postage aint cheap you know.

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[Robin]

Come on Mike, the difference in diameter VHF licence v Tax disc is minimal and the edge carries no information you would need to read I believe. We cut ours down slightly to fit a car disc holder, the info you need to check is still there same size for you to read from 20' should you wish.

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[Mike_Martin]

Re: If you want to save us some cash

Once again, it is the cheapest postage possible business class it ranks below 2nd class.

The letters, oh the letters, they sometimes are the bane of my life but nothing I can do about them. We (AMS) have to do the same as the rest of the Agency and the Agency has to comply with the European Licensing Directive (due to be replaced by the European Authorisation Directive). The Directive tells us how to communicate with customers (licensees) and stipulates the letters that should be sent during the renewal process and how many have to be sent after failure to renew etc.

Mike

<hr width=100% size=1>Manager,
Aeronautical & Maritime Services Section,
Radiocommunications Agency

 

[Mike_Martin]

Quite right but the money it would cost to change it now would have to come from licence fees. The sizes were decided at the beginning of the contract to maximise cost effectiveness.

The bottom line here is that I administer a neccessary safety radio service and I try to do it in a way that does not financially burden you, the end user. That's why the licence only costs £20 rather than £40 or £50 or even £160 like Road Tax.

The little things that the odd customer brings up as a great idea will affect the other 64,000 customers and I have to take that into account. It is fine for you to trim your disc slightly to use a different holder (as long as no information is lost) however, the majority of users would not be happy with a rise in fee because I have decided to change all of the licence stationery to accomodate you not having to do the trimming. WRT to doing things the same as DVLA don't forget that it might decide to change the size of the tax disc again, then where would we be.

Mike


<hr width=100% size=1>Manager,
Aeronautical & Maritime Services Section,
Radiocommunications Agency

 

[DavidTocher]

I gather from previous threads the reason a UK license costs so much (£20) is because revenue is required to run the Radiocommunications Agency. If one looks at the prosecutions for marine radio offences in 2002/3 there were 2 prosecutions and 10 warnings so there's a lot of money (your license fees) being collected and spent for little return - the total fines&costs amounted to £550 in 2002/3.

In Ireland a ships license costs 3.80 Euro. I suspect not much effort is made by the Irish Authorities to chase unlicensed vessels.

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[Mike_Martin]

You really need a perspective on RA to understand what it is about, some facts n' figures:

213,000 licensees, circa £80m annual turnover. You can view the Annual Report at www.radio.gov.uk

Ships licences circa 63,800 at between £10 -£20 each. If I was in the Office I could give you an exact income figure.

Although the Ship Sector is numerically superior to all others its income is only slightly more than that of the Amateur Radio Sector. When you compare that to the Mobile Telephone Operator licensees, each one of them pays more in licence fee per year than all ships put together!

WRT to other administrations we are in the process of comparing other European admins to our own. The study is not about VFM but I am quite certain that the issues such as MARS updates, direct info to HMCG and direct info to customers will show that the UK service far out weighs any of them.

While we are looking at VFM though, again I would draw your attention to the UK Fishing Rod Licence (one of my own bugbears as I fish on a private lake) which costs me £22 a year and DOES just create income for the Environment agency.

Mike

<hr width=100% size=1>Manager,
Aeronautical & Maritime Services Section,
Radiocommunications Agency

 

[philip_stevens]

It's no good everyone. You will never beat a politician or a civil servant in justifying their cosseted, (index linked pension), position.
The fact remains that it is just yet another way to extract tax for no reason. There is absolutely no justification to licence something that is not there - airwaves.
Marconi's spark-gap morse, is no different from lightning, so why isn't lighning taxed - or is Gordon thinking about that as well.

<hr width=100% size=1>regards,
Philip

 

[Mike_Martin]

Oooh now I'm hurt. BTW we become part of the new "public corporation" (whatever that means) Ofcom in December, we won't be civil servants anymore.

Does this mean that we should strive to increase the fees? As we will no longer be cossetted and we'll need to fund the old pensions from somewhere.

Mike

<hr width=100% size=1>Manager,
Aeronautical & Maritime Services Section,
Radiocommunications Agency

 

[tome]

Mike

This is frightening news as no doubt you'll be expected to go 'enterprise-culture'. Some suggestions to fund your pension pot:

Charge extra for 'cherished' callsigns
Reserve and charge fortune for easy-to-remember MMSI numbers
Charge-per-call with subscription levels (eg 10 mins free monthly talk-time, 30 in winter)
Change enquiry number to premium rate
Become more inclusive, eg why not offer gas and electricity billing?
Take on Road Fund licensing (and increase size of tax disc)

Can PM you with my consultancy rates if this gets your pulse a-racing.

Tom

BTW, hovering over my iron knee button in case Twister Ken rears his ugly...

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[AOWYN]

Licence discs

Re The letters and some European regulation which determines how the agency communicates with its licence holders, how nice to know that Europe has our interests at heart. A pity that my renewal notice hasn't arrived, I suppose it is coming by Royal Mail?

I would like to praise the helpful chap at the centre who did my remewal by telephone though, and did not need to write to me to agree that.

As for using brains and saving money, if we have to have licences for VHF sets then why can't the licence be made of sticky plastic which can be stuck on the inside of a window without all this messing about with pieces of paer and plastic holders. It works for many other licence and inspection certificates as used in side thw windscreens of over 50 million cars in the USA and you don't need a holder, just a scraper to remove the old one each year.

Of course, if one started following a sensible idea from the USA where would it end? No VHF licence fee is where it would end.


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[Jacket]

Re: Licence discs

<just a scraper to remove the old one each year>

I think that's your answer.

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