VHF/GMDSS

[poter]

I have just completed the RYA VHF/GMDSS course, and it occurred to me, that maybe
the IMO are being a bit hasty.... I explain my reasoning:

1/ If we just accept that most yachties/stinky boat owners are of an age which
is ....well... not to young (no offence ) and maybe a bit set in their ways.

2/ Most sailing persons, whilst not being adverse to SOLAS might bulk at paying a
considerable amount of dosh to upgrade their existing VHF sets to VHF/DSC sets,
especially when it is not compulsory.

3/ Nearly all the “ advance digital developments “ have tended to fall by the wayside
I am thinking of the idea that terrestrial TV will be taken over by Digital and also
the uptake of g2 & g3 phones etc. etc.


Is it not then a bit short notice that in 3 years…. I quote “ The only way to guarantee
Communications with all authorities within VHF range is by fitting VHF/DSC”

Hmmmmm!!!!

Have you fitted a new DSC set yet?

Poter.

 

[bigmart]

I was sailing this week on a boat fitted with an expensive DSC/GMDSS set. It failed to both send & recieve DSC calls to & from another vessel. That is to say that although it both sent & recieved the calls the call alarm failed to operate on both boats.

Thank god we could still hail each other on Channel 16.

The question should be "Have you met anyone who has bought a set that thinks it is worth the investment."

Martin

 

[poter]

Hi bigmart
re the " Expensive equipment" How expensive???
& if this was an equipment fault, it is not good that both sets failed!

However as the DSC frequency is dedicated I can't really see any other explanation, apart from you both not having input the MMSI number.

Going back to my point, I realise that the DSC equipment is not to replace VHF but if the Emergency services are not going to have a dedicated watch on Ch 16 what happens (in 2005) if the DSC sig fails, or you do not have DSC, and its an emergency.
Do you just sink?

poter

 

[Paulka]

The DSC (or is it GMDSS?) is just another "Big Brother" b***s**t!
As you state it, DSC is NOT to replace VHF!
Then, any serious "Emergency service" still will monitor channel 16, even long, long after 2005.
And, if you really are afraid to sink, have an EPIRB 406 Mhz, which is really efficient, .... and doesn't air all your personal data each time you speak to your club mate in his boat half a mile from yours.

It's just my opinion.

 

[Guest]

My understanding is that after 2005 coastguards will continue to have a loudspeaker watch on Ch16 but they won't have a dedicated 24/7 headset watch. I'm not sure what this means in practice for the reliability of picking up a voice-only distress call on Ch16.

But in theory DSC surely offers significant advantages (especially if interfaced with GPS). It should provide rapid and reliable transmission of the basic distress call information. That's the theory anyway.

By the way when sailing in eg Spanish and Portugese waters with Ch16 on I've found constant chattering and noise from (I believe) local fishermen to the extent that Ch16 might well be occupied when you want to make a distress call ! Maybe DSC would help ?

But I guess that if you really want to be sure of your distress message getting through an EPIRB is the best option.

gofa

 

[bigmart]

Hi Poter

The equipment that I was referring to was the Icom two part DSC set.

£600.00 or there abouts. Thats expensive enough for me. The mmsi numbers were loaded into the memory of both sets and the vessels in question were both owned by the same organisation.

As to your point about listening watches. My guess is that the GMDSS system will prove so unreliable that, in practise, a full watch will always be kept on channel 16.

Regards

Martin

 

[Cornishman]

The 'short notice' of which you complain was first mentioned about 6 years ago as 'for the foreseeable future'. Soon it became '5 years' which most thought to be ample notice. Remember also that the CGA is anxious to reduce its personnel which it can do once digital is the only option, so for good or bad technical reasons I doubt they will stop now. They have the technology. You have the choice.
I have my terrestrial digital TV on while I write this - it was nothing technical which led to the downfall of ITV Digital - it was money!

 

[poter]

But if the technology is not working??? see previous postings
&/or you have no DSC what then???

If the DSC technology is not correctly implemented, & you must admit that the government and most authorities have an enviable record of cock ups, or is under funded like the ATC then I am sure we will be heading for disaster.

Also if as you state the CGA are anxious to reduce personnel it will end up like the HSE which has an appaling record, especially in my industry, for following up on complaints, with the consequence of lives being put at risk.
Currently I am sure all yachtsmen will agree that the CGA are doing a brill. job and the thought of them having a manpower problem...........!!!!

Why oh why can't the authorities leave well alone, until at least the technology is tried and trusted and is affordable to the majority of boat owners.

The reason ITV Digital TV failed was surley through the lack of uptake as well as lack of funding, which is the point I was trying to get accross regarding DSC sets.

Right I'm off me soap box now.

poter.

 

[Guest]

I'm in favour of the GMDSS system it will save a lot of time and effort in the long run. The system still uses VHF as a carrier and will be subject to all the normal problems that currently exist save that a digital signal is far easier to transmit with less problems of distortion. As for a "speaker watch" after 2005, folks I gotta tell ya that just about every RNLI lifeboat coxon at this very moment has a "listening watch" going on Ch 16. Why do you think that the launch times are so quick. By the time you've said Mayday a second time he's already on his way to the boathouse, have you never wondered why the coxon is always standing on the lifeboats flying bridge as the crews arrive waiting to decide who his crew are going to be for that particular shout! I dont think that a listening watch is going to disappear for a very long time.

 

[Cornishman]

You have overlooked the fact that digital comms have been around for a long time in other worlds than the small boats. Eg commercial vessels of over 300 grt have had them compulsorily for some time now, and have proved that not only do they work but that they are an improvement on the old analogue type of VHF. Whether you have one in a small boat or not is your choice after due consideration of whether you think it necessary or not.
As for the CGA, they, like all other government departments, have been subjected to staff reductions ever since Long John Silver had 2 legs! In most institutions the most expensive resource is the manpower (oops, sorry, personpower) bill and the taxpayer demands that their contributions are not wasted.

 

[vyv_cox]

I sail in an area that is certainly amongst the busiest for shipping in the world - offshore Holland/Belgium. Monitoring Channel 16, one hears almost constant exchanges of the type "Tanker proceeding x-degrees, this is vessel soandso, I am about to pass you to port" and so on. It is still unclear to me how GMDSS can substitute for this wide use of existing VHF. Can anyone explain?

 

[Viking]

Not have taken the new course yet. I maybe speaking without the full facts - 'a little knowledge is a dangerous thing'. But, If no listening watch is be kept now do you know if your call as been received? I know the ideas is that once the 'button' as been pressed you do have to keep pressing it. But my understanding is that, which as been proven many times over, that a in a time of 'stress' a human voice at the other end of the phone or radio is 'worth' a second lifeboat!

 

[JeremyF]

Its hardly a major advance in technology; its just adding paging-type functionality on top of the analogue circuitry. Most manufacturers have taken it as an opportunity to design a separate box, and charge the earth. NASA and Silva both have decent combined units well under £300. My NASA works well ship-to-ship once you get used to the strange user interface.

I think DSC is great. Firstly you dont have to leave the volume up high and get all the Solent Radio Check stuff- if someone wants you, or there is an all ships call, it rings loudly to alert you. Secondly, I'm reassured that if I go over the side my crew just press the tit for 5 seconds and HM Coastguard knows exactly where I am.

Im sure the problems you have had are finger trouble. I found it odd getting individual calling to work. If you are in the Solent next weekend, try some calls to me, see my profile for DSC MMSI.

BTW, lets help get DSC underway - Kim has added a field in user profiles for us to publish MMSI's.

Jeremy Flynn

 

[longjohnsilver]

I still have got 2 legs!! NM

.

 

[Mike_Martin]

Hi Poter,

I'm replying to this before reading the other postings as I am short on time, so apologies if anyone has already pointed any of these things out already.

The GMDSS appeared in the World of SOLAS in 1974 and after a 25 year lead-in was fully implemented in 1999 (yes that is irony ;-)).

I'm not going to comment on the amount of time involved and why the world of pleasure boating seems to have remained completely oblivious to it. It may be that everyone assumed it would fall by the wayside, who knows. I do no that both my Agency and the MCA have been trying to get this information to pleasure boaters for 7 years plus. As to it not going ahead, pretty unlikely as it has been in force (as mentioned above) for 3 years already.

As to not being able to contact the authorities, it's quite right and I understand that some administrations have already compelled their pleasure craft to re-fit with DSC, someone told me the Dutch started several years ago. Unfortunately I don't have the time (or the Dutch) to check it out.

The message is "The GMDSS is already here and it is here to stay. Don't begin to imagine that the 01/04/05 deadline for cessation of Channel 16 watching will be extended, I was at Falmouth CG on Tuesday last and it was restated that it will not."

MIke

Manager,
Aeronautical & Maritime Section,
Radiocommunications Agency

 

[Mike_Martin]

Under GMDSS Channel 13 is available for "Bridge to Bridge" voice calling where a danger of collision exists. Once everyone does the course they will of course know this.

I have done the course and I don't even have a boat, however I should admit that I do crew once in a while and I do like to pilot the odd RIB, as anyone in Falmouth Harbour weekend before last may have seen.

Mike.

Manager,
Aeronautical & Maritime Section,
Radiocommunications Agency

 

[Mike_Martin]

Once the button is pressed and the call is acknowledged by an MRCC, everyone moves to Channel 16 which is of course nowadays actually the Distress and Safety Working Channel.

Mike

Manager,
Aeronautical & Maritime Section,
Radiocommunications Agency

 

[Mike_Martin]

Please refer to my first about timing.

I must say that the UK was amongst one of the first European administrations to declare Sea Area 1 facilities and I have seen there kit in action. There are no problems with it at all.

HMCG is staffed by dedicated personnel who take your safety at Sea seriously and all they ask is that you do the same and help them to do their job. If the safety system changes, on a global basis for the first time in over 50 years and it helps you, surely it is in your interest to update as well.

Mike.
Soap boxes, who mentioned soap boxes!


Manager,
Aeronautical & Maritime Section,
Radiocommunications Agency

 

[Mike_Martin]

2 Points:

You need to run the self test circuit in the DSC controller ASAP and contact the manufacturer immediately, if you let me know the make I can probably give you the tel. no

At present the cheapest "all in" VHF/DSC on the UK market is around £250 +VAT.

Mike

Manager,
Aeronautical & Maritime Section,
Radiocommunications Agency

 

[Mike_Martin]

Martin,

Call Jon Brooks at ICOM UK on 01227 741 741 and let him know what has happened if this is not a "operator" issue he will obviously need to know about it.

Mike

Manager,
Aeronautical & Maritime Section,
Radiocommunications Agency