VHF/GMDSS

[Guest]

I am interested to know what you, and others, consider to be the 'right price'?
Recently there was a mad rush to buy widescreen TVs near here for £229, a bargain when you look at the average price. Would a similar figure for an electronic piece of life saving equipment be acceptable?
The RYA has a former member of staff keeping a watching brief on the whole subject and the cheapest prices seem to be about £250

 

[Guest]

Hi Gofa,

just to re-inforce your point, in Greece last week, there was a DSC Mayday relay which cut through the chatter, music, singing and foul language like a knife. CH16 went totally silent, as no-one would respond to the Relay. Whilst I am certain the my boat wasn't the nearest, not a soul responded, and I confirmed the position of what turned out to be a DSC alert about 15 miles to the east with the land station issuing the mayday-relay.
No-one would have picked the call up without DSC.
The irony of this turned out that it was a false alert.

Nick

 

[Chris_Robb]

What happens when...

With DSC what happens when you make a DSC MAYDAY from the middle of the channel - ie out of range of the coast guard- who picks up the automated call? other yachts won't hear it will they?

 

[bedouin]

Re: What happens when...

Yes they will - provided the radio is turned on!

As soon as you have pressed the DSC button, you should follow it up with a voice MAYDAY on Ch16 as normal.

Other yachts equipped with DSC will hear a loud bleep - and the radio will automatically go to channel 16 to receive the voice MAYDAY - the screen on the radio should also give the basics of the distress (e.g. position).

Yachts without DSC should also be listening to Ch16 anyway - so will hear the call normally. In fact with DSC you are more likely to be heard because yachts with DSC sets who are not tuned to Ch16 will receive the DSC mayday, followed by the voice.

BTW - Given that I can hear Solent Coastguard in Cherbourg, and the French Coastguard in the Solent, I don't think that there is much of the channel outside the range of the shore stations.

 

[alex_rogers]

Re: No

I've heard that message from Solent coastguard a couple of times but it has always been in circumstances where some privacy is required; the first time concerning arrangements to retrieve a body from the water.

 

[Guest]

Re: No

heading south last year, and with my old sea voice not even able to receice all channels, i bought a simrad dsc set. i used it down the french and spanish coasts.

neither french nor spanish coastguard would respond to a routine dsc call - the only routine calls i was able to make by dsc since i didnt have any one elses mmsi no. uk coastguard did respond, but in most cases by calling on 67 for"the staion who just called by dsc" or by the mmsi.

we were unfortunate enough to suffer an emergency of sorts - cross etel did then use the dsc calling system but to no great advantage.

the set was a major irritation in northern spain where the coastguard made a lot of use of dsc calls for minor matters, and the alarm on the set kept being triggered (v strident and with no volume control). in the end, i switched the set off.

conclusion - no worthwhile advantage at this stage. dont waste your money.

 

[ccscott49]

Just to add my twopence worth, GMDSS alerts on channel 70 are mostly, today at least, false alarms, most of them, this is before yachtmen get there hands on the units, how many more false alarms there will be is guesswork. The system is a good one, but not really designed around yachtsmen, it's for commercial use really. They can't seem to get it right, so how the hell do they expect the weekend sailor to get things right? maybe it's time for a seperate system for pleasure boaters, there are a few channels available now, from the basically defunct ship to shore telephone links, could these be used, to direct calls, directly to the rescue centres by an automatic telephone link? The technology is available and could be used fairly easily. Those of us who travel further afield must use GMDSS, but actually we would then need HF/SSB equipment, or satellite anyway, as this would be the range required. EPIRB would be a godd way of doing things aswell, so that real emergencys used that instead of the VHF system and low priority stuff, close to shore, (Pan Pan) etc could use the ship to shore system. Just a thought, something that bears thinking about at least.

 

[Mike_Martin]

I'm sure that I have mentioned this elsewhere in this thread but I spent the day with the Staff Officer GMDSS at Falmouth MRCC the week before last. We touched on the subject of false alerts he said and I quote " the figures of VHF/DSC false alerts has fallen dramatically over the past 3 years due mainly to the hard work of manufacturers, training organisations and boaters themselves to ensure correct training and application. During the last year there have been no more than 6 false VHF/DSC Distress Alerts received by HMCG, he couldn't remember whether it was 5 or 6. He has also confirmed that he is happy for me to quote him on the usefullness of these perceived no duff alerts on testing the operation of his systems.

The figure that was quoted about 3 or 4 years ago about 90% of GMDSS alerts being false is a bit of a "no no" nowadays as it was grossly misrepresented in many fora. That figure was inclusive of ALL alerts including EPIRBS (which funnily made something over 90% of them) as well as MF/HF and VHF DSC but it somehow became a representation of VHF/DSC Distress alerts in UK Sea Area A1.

The bottom line for this subject is that the Maritime Radio Service has never been designed around pleasure craft, that is why in radio terms they are categorised as either "non-SOLAS" or "Vountary Fit (VF)". However, in the past owners have recognised the benefits and decided to join in, that has not changed. The fact is that the Service itself has undergone (3 years ago) its first overhaul in 50 years and now if VF craft still want to use it they need the correct equipment.

The old non-DSC equipment is becoming less useful day by day as more non-SOLAS craft are moving to or being built with the correct system. In the the not too distant future non-DSC kit will be about as useful as a CB for summoning assistance from other vessels or the Coastguard.

Sorry to rant but there you are.

Mike

Manager,
Aeronautical & Maritime Section,
Radiocommunications Agency

 

[ccscott49]

Mike,
You didn't comment on the suggestion that existing channels and sets could be used through the old ship to shore system (or an inexpensive re-broadcast unit) for alerts to coastgurd stations through the phone lines, who could then put out a channel 70 alert to ships in the area which automatically switch to channel 16 anyway (which we already have) as the working frequency for distress work, is this a valid method, could it work? It's fairly simple technology, it could even be tied to the mobile phone network, without too much trouble. I just think the good equipment is just too expensive for most yachtmen at present. Remember we are a resistive lot at the best of times, but when it attacks the old cruising budget, duck! This is not to say I won't go GMDSS, I've already done the course, but it seems so useless down here in the med, as the radio procedures and systems are fairly chaotic.

 

[steve_cronin]

Well I bought a Sailor...

.. on the advice of the yacht builders and the Charter Management company who look after the boat. Thinking Sailors are the people who used to make those big green professional looking VHFs I though OK, I'll go along with that.

It is the most complicated bit of kit I have ever experienced. It relies on drop down menus on a small screen and you need to keep very calm just to remember where you are. Hardly likely in an emergency. The cover dropped off the Mayday buton within two days and the cable pulled out of the handset. The speaker in the back of the handset is so small and low powered that it can't be heard from the other side of the saloon let alone the companionway. It also seems to pick up loads of false alarms and silent line selcalls although nobody knows the registration number.

Yes I agree with those who have said that this potentially spendid system was launched before all the bugs and pitfalls had been addressed.

Steve Cronin

 

[poter]

Colin, my point exactly.

I go back to my original post and some of the reply's on here, that the system may very well be ok for commercial craft but the inexpensive DSC/VHF sets seem to have quite a few bugs.

Will the IMO/MCA take the comments/feedback from non commercial sailors into account? The GMDSS guidlines are a compulsory requirment for commercial vessels over 300 gross tons and for some other passenger craft, other than that it is voluntary (NOTE including lifeboats) that leaves an awfull lot of craft out there with out cover in a couple of years time, if as Mike states that " In the the not too distant future non-DSC kit will be about as useful as a CB for summoning assistance "

Will we not be able to get any reply on Ch16 or do we just sink?


poter

 

[Gunfleet]

Re: Well I bought a Sailor...

So Steve you're experienced in the kit at least. What I don't understand is where 'Gas tanker on my port bow (position), what are your intentions?' type call comes out in the DSC system. Do they also listen on ch 16?

 

[Mike_Martin]

Re: Well I bought a Sailor...

Steve,

I do hope that since then you have gone back to Sailor and demanded either your money back or a working piece of kit.

As to the complications of Distress Alerting, I am sure that you do know that the menus for Safety and Routine Calling are not involved. In fact I suspect a bit of "tongue in cheek" at work here.

Mike

Manager,
Aeronautical & Maritime Section,
Radiocommunications Agency

 

[Mike_Martin]

Re: Well I bought a Sailor...

John,

As explained elsewhere, that is the role of Channel 13. Or if all else fails a red at the bridge.

Mike

Manager,
Aeronautical & Maritime Section,
Radiocommunications Agency

 

[Mike_Martin]

No decisions have been taken yet on what is going to happen to the channels laid down for Public Correspondence either here or in any of the other administrations that have closed down the Coastal Radio Stations. The Agency will be producing a Consultation Document at some point in the future (no date as yet) to get feedback from affected parties, watch this space.

However, you must remember that no Government is going to spend money supporting a system that has been basically scrapped World-wide (apart from stragglers) as a "ghost" of the correct system.

The cost issue is also becoming null & void with an all in one unit on the market here at just shy of £250 inc VAT.

Regarding the Med, yes they are in a very similar situation to the US and the WIndies for Maritime radio usage, however they as with all administrations are under pressure to get their houses in order. One thing I would say is that the 406 EPIRB is a V.good device outside of UK Waters. As if it is properly registered at Falmouth EPIRB Registry they contact Falmouth first and you are assured of the guys organising things from this end. To me a very comforting thought!

Mike

Manager,
Aeronautical & Maritime Section,
Radiocommunications Agency

 

[ccscott49]

Yes I do have an EPIRB, registered at Falmouth, but since you have cancelled my radio licence (I'm working on it as we speak) I've had a rather diistubing letter from them saying they are going to cancel my registration, I'm trying to deal with that! But as I'm either offshore NOrway or on the boat in the med, it all gets a little messy! I will sort it. I also don't think you will ever be able to bring enough pressure to bear on places like countries bordering the med to get them to adhere to the regs, they haven't up to now, even with the old regs, which have benn in power now for how many decades? have you ever listened to 16 in the med? Anyway I will try and get my licences and EPIRB registration sorted, maybe buy one GMDSS set, I have two standard sets now and a two handhelds. It's bad enough trying to abide by all the other new stuff, for my 57' vessel! What with independant fire pumps etc.

 

[Mike_Martin]

That is worrying, useful number coming up, Linda Goulding EPIRB Registry 01326 211 569. I would give her (or her team) a ring and just confirm the details of the letter and make the right assuring/comforting noises to ensure registration continues whilst dealing with the paperwork.

I take your point about some other administrations being V.lax in all matters, but I must say that that will never be an acceptable reason for the UK to do the same.

Mike.

Manager,
Aeronautical & Maritime Section,
Radiocommunications Agency

 

[anthonyyearsley]

Re: Well I bought a Sailor...

Mike.
My earlier post about speaking to an unknown vessel on collision course has not been satisfactorily answered. In fog in daylight 'a red at the bridge' is not an option. One cannot broadcast on 13 and 16 together. Earlier posts have all confirmed that currently ships speak to each other on 16. Can we expect this to change to 13 in the future and what happens during the change?
A very unsatisfactory situation?
Tony.

 

[Mike_Martin]

Re: Well I bought a Sailor...

Hi Tony,

The actual position is that some non-SOLAS vessels call each other on C16. All SOLAS vessels (over 300 GRT and certain passenger carrying vessels) have been equipped with DSC equipment since 01/02/99 when the system changed.

The point of my previous post was to illustrate (in a light hearted way) that as a vessel not equipped with DSC radio equipment you will have to try every option available to you. C16 AND C13 will be part of that process.

However, if you are equipped with DSC equipment you will be able to put out an All ships "Urgency" or "Safety" Alert on C70, giving position etc, thereby attracting the attention of ALL vessels in range including the one that you wish to speak to.

In effect non-DSC vessels are in a position, slightly superior to non-radio vessels with regard to inter-ship communications with Merchant men.

Mike.

Manager,
Aeronautical & Maritime Section,
Radiocommunications Agency