Vessel salvage rules

joshtrucker

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Good afternoon all, having read through your comments I would say this isn't the place for the question. Alot of interesting comments re my qualifications and the dangers of my actions.

My enquiry was if a Shore side contract of work precluded a claim of salvage on a vessel.

As a follow up to the various inquisitions;

I have a skippers ticket that allows me to take the workboat I moved, I happen not to be employed as a vessel skipper at the company I work.

As somebody correctly pointed out I didn't state I acted alone, there were other parties present I don't mention them as I don't represent them or their actions.

There were hazards which were managed but they aren't relevant to my enquiry.

The two vessels in question are worth around £2 million, the harbour master requested something be done with the vessels and concern was raised by a passenger ferry that was moored nearby as one of the vessels was presenting a danger to shipping. The repairs to the vessels will be financed by an insurance company so any reward would have virtually no impact. My intention was to request £100 for each employee that works in my region to go into their December pay check.

My company thanked me and commended my effort. My understanding of salvage rules is to encourage people to assist others at sea....unfortunately not alot of encouragement here.

Thank you to those who offered genuine advice.
 

joshtrucker

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Worth recognising that there are two separate conversations here.







One is about whether OP was sensible to do what he did. Fwiw I don't have enough detail to comment but nor does anyone else, and it's interesting how people completely invent facts, eg the above. OP never said he was alone and quite probably wasn't.







The other is about whether, as a matter of law, he has a salvage claim - this is OP's questionthis .



Thank you, this is sensible and on point
 

joshtrucker

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In support of the OP, I don’t think that the risks involved in securing a couple of 20 metre steel work boats in a high wind in a port in the UK are necessarily such that he was foolish to undertake them, assuming that he’s reasonably fit, because, clearly, he did know what he was doing.



The sort of thing that gets you killed includes:



Trying to secure heavy cargo or equipment that has parted its lashings on deck at sea



Entering a confined space without a working BA set (this is by a country mile the biggest killer of seamen)



etc.



Silly salvage story - in the Seventies word went round the shipping law firms of EC3 that Lloyd’s Salvage Arbitration and Guarantees Branch had received a correctly completed Lloyd’s Form in respect of a hire cruiser on Breydon Water (shades of Arthur Ransome!) with the Salvor named as a well known (to the fraternity) Managing Clerk at one of the more eminent firms. He was persuaded not pursue it. I do know who he was and who he worked for, but I won’t divulge either.


thank you for your comment, I am fit and well and I've worked boats and ships since 2012
 

jfm

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@joshtrucker, thanks for the follow up. Useful that you have silenced the garbage-writing in several posts above.

In your shoes I would contact the employer and ask for an ex gratia payment to recognise what you did, and say that you are aware you can make a salvage claim but would prefer not to, if the employer can make an ex gratia payment instead. I would be asking for £1,000 not £100 - never ask for a small amount because it is too trivial to be taken seriously. I own/run businesses and if I were in the shoes of your employer I would pay you, and also give you a big round of thanks. Hope your boss/ultimate boss do the same and good luck with it.
 

Bouba

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@joshtrucker, thanks for the follow up. Useful that you have silenced the garbage-writing in several posts above.

In your shoes I would contact the employer and ask for an ex gratia payment to recognise what you did, and say that you are aware you can make a salvage claim but would prefer not to, if the employer can make an ex gratia payment instead. I would be asking for £1,000 not £100 - never ask for a small amount because it is too trivial to be taken seriously. I own/run businesses and if I were in the shoes of your employer I would pay you, and also give you a big round of thanks. Hope your boss/ultimate boss do the same and good luck with it.
If you gave dozens of employees a £1000 bonus each...that would cost you a coffee table for your new boat
 

joshtrucker

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Thanks JFM, good advice well presented. Thank you everyone else for welcoming me to the forum. You have managed to establish that; I have large genitals, have similarities to stallone, I'm very much incompetent and reckless as all hell. The reality is myself and another party managed a very well planned and exitcuted salvage operation in unfavourable conditions. We carried out a pre-job risk assessment and assigned roles. The urgency was that between the two vessels they carried 10 cube of fuel and lubricants, as I mentioned before one of the vessels was presenting a hazard to Shipping, a pax vessel. The smaller forward vessel was being pushed under the larger vessel, the bulwarks had been folded over and the eventual results were that one or both of the vessels would have floundered and sunk, discharging the fuel to the environment. The fact that I turned up as a volunteer doesn't by any means that I wasn't qualified and competent to carry out the operation. I have always found yachty and seafarers to be decent friendly people not so much on this forum. I'll stay a member for interest but I don't suppose I'll ask for advice from the experts within in the future. Many thanks
 

penfold

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You provided a scant description of what happened, people have responded to that, that's how forums work. Those qualified/experienced enough to answer the salvage question did so. The extra info gives a poor impression of your employer; moored vessels need tending in storm conditions, they failed to ensure this was done, giving rise to the need for the harbourmaster's intervention and your actions.
 

jamie N

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Bouba, I've done loads of cleaning underwater and reckon that it's a very efficient and environmentally responsible way in which to clean a pool, provided that you've a good filtration system to clean the crud.
 

jfm

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Thanks JFM, good advice well presented. Thank you everyone else for welcoming me to the forum. You have managed to establish that; I have large genitals, have similarities to stallone, I'm very much incompetent and reckless as all hell. The reality is myself and another party managed a very well planned and exitcuted salvage operation in unfavourable conditions. We carried out a pre-job risk assessment and assigned roles. The urgency was that between the two vessels they carried 10 cube of fuel and lubricants, as I mentioned before one of the vessels was presenting a hazard to Shipping, a pax vessel. The smaller forward vessel was being pushed under the larger vessel, the bulwarks had been folded over and the eventual results were that one or both of the vessels would have floundered and sunk, discharging the fuel to the environment. The fact that I turned up as a volunteer doesn't by any means that I wasn't qualified and competent to carry out the operation. I have always found yachty and seafarers to be decent friendly people not so much on this forum. I'll stay a member for interest but I don't suppose I'll ask for advice from the experts within in the future. Many thanks
Josh, based on that description you have a good salvage claim. A critical part is the bit I coloured red. In your shoes I would either ask for the £1000 or claim salvage, or do both = ask for the £1000 and if refused then claim salvage. Be very careful about time limits for claiming salvage . 14K478 is the expert on all that.
 
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jfm

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You provided a scant description of what happened, people have responded to that, that's how forums work. Those qualified/experienced enough to answer the salvage question did so. The extra info gives a poor impression of your employer; moored vessels need tending in storm conditions, they failed to ensure this was done, giving rise to the need for the harbourmaster's intervention and your actions.
He simply asked whether his contract of employment precluded a salvage claim. That's all he asked - nothing more/nothing less. He never asked people to comment on his actions, and so he didn't need to tell you all the detail about what happened. It was poor form of people to make all sorts of incorrect assumptions, misread his post, and criticise what they (in their heads) think he did.
 

joshtrucker

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He simply asked whether his contract of employment precluded a salvage claim. That's all he asked - nothing more/nothing less. He never asked people to comment on his actions, and so he didn't need to tell you all the detail about what happened. It was poor form of people to make all sorts of incorrect assumptions, misread his post, and criticise what they (in their heads) think he did.







Correct!
 

ProDave

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The last time I jumped to do something quickly about a fire, I was later told I should receive a written warning for breaking H&S and standing orders which were wait for others more equipped to act and as I left the office suitably admonished with my tail between my legs my boss said but thankyou for what you did!!
I keep hearing this, that you should never fight a fire with a fire extinguisher. That goes against the grain for me, but if that really is universal accepted policy now, then employers should remove all those waste of space fire extinguishers that nobody is allowed to use.
 

penfold

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He simply asked whether his contract of employment precluded a salvage claim. That's all he asked - nothing more/nothing less. He never asked people to comment on his actions, and so he didn't need to tell you all the detail about what happened. It was poor form of people to make all sorts of incorrect assumptions, misread his post, and criticise what they (in their heads) think he did.
Fair comment, but he asked an employment law question on a boating forum; fred drift applies.
 

fisherman

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I saved an expensive dive boat that broke its mooring and went on the rocks, I pulled it off and waited for the owner to turn up, then carried on with my day.
The owner appeared on the quay next day ringing his hands and clearly worried. Aha I said, someone has mentioned salvage. Don't worry, if I was going to claim I would have taken the boat to the nearest port and handed her to the receiver of wrecks....but you owe me a drink. He must have asked around the other fishermen about how much I had lost, and that's pretty much what he gave me. Might be me next time.
 
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