Vessel salvage rules

[14K478]

In support of the OP, I don’t think that the risks involved in securing a couple of 20 metre steel work boats in a high wind in a port in the UK are necessarily such that he was foolish to undertake them, assuming that he’s reasonably fit, because, clearly, he did know what he was doing.

The sort of thing that gets you killed includes:

Trying to secure heavy cargo or equipment that has parted its lashings on deck at sea

Entering a confined space without a working BA set (this is by a country mile the biggest killer of seamen)

etc.

Silly salvage story - in the Seventies word went round the shipping law firms of EC3 that Lloyd’s Salvage Arbitration and Guarantees Branch had received a correctly completed Lloyd’s Form in respect of a hire cruiser on Breydon Water (shades of Arthur Ransome!) with the Salvor named as a well known (to the fraternity) Managing Clerk at one of the more eminent firms. He was persuaded not pursue it. I do know who he was and who he worked for, but I won’t divulge either.

 

[Poecheng]

In support of the OP, I don’t think that the risks involved in securing a couple of 20 metre steel work boats in a high wind in a port in the UK are necessarily such that he was foolish to undertake them, assuming that he’s reasonably fit, because, clearly, he did know what he was doing.

The sort of thing that gets you killed includes:

Trying to secure heavy cargo or equipment that has parted its lashings on deck at sea

Entering a confined space without a working BA set (this is by a country mile the biggest killer of seamen)

What gets you killed are hazards which have an attendant risk of death.
1. OP: I would like a reward for my efforts and the danger I placed myself in.
That raises the question, danger of what? He is not talking about a trip hazard and the use of the word 'danger' shows it must be risk of serious injury . He also tells us he was alone so, if the risk of serious injury eventuated, he could not be assisted, or readily assisted.

2. If we pose the question: 'Might a person die or be very seriously injured (and subsequently die) if, untrained, outside the scope of his work, alone, acting without instructions, without anyone aware of his activity and without necessary safety equipment, they leave the safety of the shore and board a large, heavy vessel or vessels that were themselves in danger (to each other) in 'storm force winds' and carry out work alone on the decks of said vessels to secure them ?

I think there is only one answer to that question. So if we then factor in the likelihood of death or serious injury eventuating, I reckon there was a very real chance of it happening. If a person says they were in danger, there is no basis I have to doubt that.
Where there are real, not fanciful, risks of death or serious injury, all other reasonably practicable mitigation measures must be employed before such risks (if they have to be taken at all) are taken. The reason is that these risks do, more than just occasionally, come about and people (mainly men) die.

 

[jfm]

He also tells us he was alone so, ... he could not be assisted, or readily assisted...

Worth recognising that there are two separate conversations here.

One is about whether OP was sensible to do what he did. Fwiw I don't have enough detail to comment but nor does anyone else, and it's interesting how people completely invent facts, eg the above. OP never said he was alone and quite probably wasn't.

The other is about whether, as a matter of law, he has a salvage claim - this is OP's question.

 

[colhel]

Would the following be the same as the OPs situation?
I turn up at the marina, notice my neighbours sunseeker being banged against the pontoon so I adjust his fenders and lines to stop further damage, and then claim salvage

 

[Bouba]

Would the following be the same as the OPs situation?
I turn up at the marina, notice my neighbours sunseeker being banged against the pontoon so I adjust his fenders and lines to stop further damage, and then claim salvage

Plus a reward for the danger you subjected yourself to

 

[Momac]

I don't think a reward is appropriate as it would be the wrong message to other people who might attempt similar activity.

Not so long ago I heard a gas alarm on a boat. I reported it to the marina who contacted the owner . I did not expect a reward but a bottle of wine was a surprise and gratefully received.

The OP might have raised a alarm rather than putting himself in danger. He might then have deserved a small reward.

 

[penfold]

The sort of thing that gets you killed includes:

Trying to secure heavy cargo or equipment that has parted its lashings on deck at sea

Entering a confined space without a working BA set (this is by a country mile the biggest killer of seamen)

You missed out doing lifeboat drills. Folk die doing those with monotonous regularity.

 

[14K478]

You missed out doing lifeboat drills. Folk die doing those with monotonous regularity.

We agree. I worked for some years for a British company, still very much with us, which hasn’t launched a lifeboat in earnest since the “ Fort Stikine” disaster.

But lifeboat drills…! No deaths but plenty of injuries !

With my present employers, we spent almost a year with seven ships with notices on all the lifeboats and their gear reading :

DANGER !

DO NOT ATTEMPT TO LAUNCH THIS LIFEBOAT !

The release on load hooks…

 

[Seastoke]

The words he used , the dangers I put myself in, he states I not we and danger which is not in anyone’s H&S statement . But JFM is the legal eagle.

 

[penfold]

It's a toss-up which causes more accidents; people not knowing how to operate the davits etc or the various bits and bobs not being maintained properly(generally grease points not having seen a grease gun since John Major was PM or wire ropes letting go under load)

We agree. I worked for some years for a British company, still very much with us, which hasn’t launched a lifeboat in earnest since the “ Fort Stikine” disaster.

But lifeboat drills…! No deaths but plenty of injuries !

With my present employers, we spent amongst a year with seven ships with notices on all the lifeboats and their gear reading :

DANGER !

DO NOT ATTEMPT TO LAUNCH THIS LIFEBOAT !

The release on load hooks…

 

[Poecheng]

One is about whether OP was sensible to do what he did. Fwiw I don't have enough detail to comment but nor does anyone else, and it's interesting how people completely invent facts, eg the above. OP never said he was alone and quite probably wasn't.

I don't regard it as a complete 'invention' that he was alone.
OP stated: I joined the vessel without instruction and rescued the vessels (20ish metre steel work boats). I would like a reward for my efforts and the danger I placed myself in.
The clear inference from what he has stated above is that he alone rescued the vessels. Further, he has also stated it is not his job and he had no instructions and the vessels were already in danger and needed rescue, so it can reasonably be taken that he did not join, and lend assistance to, an existing crew who were in the act of rescuing their vessel.
He is the one considering salvage for himself rather than as part of any team.

 

[Bouba]

I think the new comer who asked the question is probably regretting it...and probably doesn’t even read it anymore...he just ask a technical question and is now pilloried for his life choices. I remember the first time I asked a technical question....can I use a jet washer to clean my pool while standing in it..... I was shocked at the abuse....but I persevered...and now I get to dish it out...while occasionally still getting some stick. Anyhow...don’t give up on the forum Josh !.....just be aware that they are a mean bunch of f@&%#*$

 

[jfm]

I don't regard it as a complete 'invention' that he was alone.
OP stated: I joined the vessel without instruction and rescued the vessels (20ish metre steel work boats). I would like a reward for my efforts and the danger I placed myself in.
The clear inference from what he has stated above is that he alone rescued the vessels. Further, he has also stated it is not his job and he had no instructions and the vessels were already in danger and needed rescue, so it can reasonably be taken that he did not join, and lend assistance to, an existing crew who were in the act of rescuing their vessel.
He is the one considering salvage for himself rather than as part of any team.

Your words were "He also tells us he was alone" (my emphasis). You might have inferred it, which is fine, but it is invention to say that he told us.

And I thoroughly disagree your claim as to "the clear inference". Sure you can infer that he was alone with no other people around if you wish, while I don't, but it is very far from "a clear inference".

Not good to over-infer though. Regarding your last sentence, there is no rule of salvage law that an individual member of a team of salvors must claim as a team. A member of team may claim for his own personal share. In OP's case, he may not even know the names of others who might have been involved.

We just don't have the facts, and the judgments being made in this thread are all a bit ahead of the facts established.

 

[jfm]

The words he used , the dangers I put myself in, he states I not we and danger which is not in anyone’s H&S statement . But JFM is the legal eagle.

This is nonsense Seastoke. If my boat is broken down perilously close to rocks and about to be smashed, and you come alongside and tow me to safety (thank you!), you individually put yourself (not "we") in danger and might have salvage rights, but you were not alone because I was there.

Really, the conclusion that OP was all on his own is simply not justified by the words in the original post. The statement that he told us he was alone is pure invention.

More generally, 14K478 is the legal eagle on this - go by what he says on this area of law more than anything I say.

 

[Seastoke]

This is nonsense Seastoke. If my boat is broken down perilously close to rocks and about to be smashed, and you come alongside and tow me to safety (thank you!), you individually put yourself (not "we") in danger and might have salvage rights, but you were not alone because I was there.

Really, the conclusion that OP was all on his own is simply not justified by the words in the original post. The statement that he told us he was alone is pure invention.

More generally, 14K478 is the legal eagle on this - go by what he says on this area of law more than anything I say.

Thank you , but you had better pray the Sanlorenzo is not close to rocks for two reasons . 1 my F42/5 would not be able to tow that beast , 2 I am still learning to do a bowline quick.

 

[Martxer]

I think the new comer who asked the question is probably regretting it...and probably doesn’t even read it anymore...he just ask a technical question and is now pilloried for his life choices. I remember the first time I asked a technical question....can I use a jet washer to clean my pool while standing in it..... I was shocked at the abuse....but I persevered...and now I get to dish it out...while occasionally still getting some stick. Anyhow...don’t give up on the forum Josh !.....just be aware that they are a mean bunch of f@&%#*$

Can you jet wash a pool while standing in it?

 

[penfold]

Can you jet wash a pool while standing in it?

This is one of those "Can the council fine me for using the garden hose if it's raining" questions.

 

[Bouba]

Can you jet wash a pool while standing in it?

That was my question....actually the full question was...is it safe..

 

[penfold]

What was your concern; tripping and accidental self-administration of an enema?

 

[Bouba]

What was your concern; tripping and accidental self-administration of an enema?

The pool is full of water