Very nice boat to finish here...

[Poignard]

For all the people on here extolling the virtues of completing this lovely looking wooden boat and talking up can do nonsense, I will wager that not one on here will get their wallet out and take the leap.

I will also, metaphorically, wager that whatever dreamer does end up buying it never gets it to the sea again and it ends up being cut up for the nice new engine.

The boatyard i am in has probably half a dozen wooden yachts that could be refitted but will be cut up jn the next year or so.

This thread is in the "Classic and Wooden Boats" forum.

If an example of a classic wooden yacht, designed by a highly regarded designer, built under ideal conditions, apparently in good condition, with a new engine, does not seem to you like a feasible completion project, then what the hell are you doing here?

 

[potentillaCO32]

This thread is in the "Classic and Wooden Boats" forum.

If an example of a classic wooden yacht, designed by a highly regarded designer, built under ideal conditions, apparently in good condition, with a new engine, does not seem to you like a feasible completion project, then what the hell are you doing here?

You do have a point.

 

[Tranona]

Would it really matter if the thing was 10 foot short and came off a Morecambe Bay prawn boat? Perfectionists in house slippers are fine but the point is getting the thing sailing rather than sitting in a boatyard in the hands of dreamers.

You would be doing nothing that could not be undone at a later date and it seems academic anyway as the rig is said to come with it - makes it an even bigger bargain.

.

Turn it on its a head. Why would you waste money fiting an entirely unsuitable mast and rig to a boat with this pedigree. What would you hope to achieve? You would need to build in a compression posr and fabricate a mast step and all the shrouds would be the wrong length so would need either shortening or replacing. Then you have to find sails for it. No means of fitting masthead lights or senders so useless for cruising. your clearly have not read the link you provided as it states that the boat requires mast and sails (along with another £20-30k of gear to finish it to a decent standard).

As I said you seem to live in a different world with seemingly no knowledge or understanding of what is required to fit out a boat like this.

 

[dunedin]

E X A C T L Y
Don’t forget ‘ it’s out of my comfort zone’ too.
Regrets, there have been a few.
But so what?
Just look at all the wooden boats that have been quietly successfully turned around and go on giving joy

As that old hard adage says . If you think you can, or you think you can’t, you’re both right!
I think this one is gonna have a happy ending

Let’s hope this boat does get completed, launched and sailed.
But the reality is that, like the masses of pre 1970s classic cars that are now struggling to find buyers, the sort of people who hanker after a boat of this style are mostly getting older, and more are selling than buying at that stage of life.
There will be a handful of younger people who want an old style wooden boat - but they will be few and far between and may already be committed to a differnt boat or project.

 

[Tranona]

And here it starts to get interesting:

Just to wet the appetite, here are a couple of other Wanderer class for sale/ sold

The first, all teak and with a solid teak deck, shows how lovely theses boats can be, it is also to my mind surprisingly affordable. And ready to go.
Laurent Giles Wanderer Sloop | Classic Wooden Yacht For Sale

And here is a ( sold) example, but built in 1985 by the Lowestoft school too.
For reference only, this one had a deck stepped mast.
Laurent Giles Wanderer wooden sailing yacht For Sale

It would be great if the combined comments and enthusiasm of this thread can ‘ get this one away’ . No boat deserves to sit ashore and suffer when it is as new.

Uncertain economic and political times seem to bring wonderful and rare opportunities like this to market.

The first one is as good as it gets from Cheoy Lee who built several Vertues to the same standard. Both the boats are not Wanderer III but presumably a modified design for commercial building. It does show how much is required to finish the subject boat to a decent standard - but at a cost that is 3 or 4 times an existing boat.

 

[doug748]

Turn it on its a head. Why would you waste money fiting an entirely unsuitable mast and rig to a boat with this pedigree. What would you hope to achieve? You would need to build in a compression posr and fabricate a mast step and all the shrouds would be the wrong length so would need either shortening or replacing. Then you have to find sails for it. No means of fitting masthead lights or senders so useless for cruising. your clearly have not read the link you provided as it states that the boat requires mast and sails (along with another £20-30k of gear to finish it to a decent standard).

As I said you seem to live in a different world with seemingly no knowledge or understanding of what is required to fit out a boat like this.

You would not be wasting money but getting the boat on the water sooner rather than later - for 700 quid. The ad hoc mast could be sold later and something better obtained or costed as finances allow. An aluminium spar would be even easier to source and modify. At the economy end of the market sailors frequently mix and match rigging and sails in the world where I live; as a plutocrat this may be beyond your ken

You have been moaning, overestimating costs, and generally putting a dampener on things for the last twenty years. Buck up. I hope the ghost of Christmas visits you over the festive period and gives you a livener.

I have read the particulars but it seems you have not read post 51.

.

 

[DownWest]

This reminds me of a thread over on the Wooden Boat Forum. Bloke detailed his build, over a time, of a classic style, but he died with the boat at the similar state as the Wanderer. Widow offered it, but found no takers. Think she even would have given it away. Possibly part of the problem was he had used wood from his land, but not 'durable'. IIRR, it was scrapped when she sold the house.

 

[Tranona]

You would not be wasting money but getting the boat on the water sooner rather than later - for 700 quid. The ad hoc mast could be sold later and something better obtained or costed as finances allow. An aluminium spar would be even easier to source and modify. At the economy end of the market sailors frequently mix and match rigging and sails in the world where I live; as a plutocrat this may be beyond your ken

You have been moaning, overestimating costs, and generally putting a dampener on things for the last twenty years. Buck up. I hope the ghost of Christmas visits you over the festive period and gives you a livener.

I have read the particulars but it seems you have not read post 51.

.

I have read post#51 and he is wrong - as he is quoting me as having spoken to the broker - which I have not, although will be seeing him tomorrow. The particulars clearly state it needs mast and sails.

Not sure why you think this boat is "economy end". If buyers are looking to go sailing quickly then this is not the boat for them. Not sure why you think that mast and rigging is suitable or can even be modified. It is totally the wrong sort of mast for that design. What makes you think having never seen the boat or the mast that it can be made to fit and then sold on when you find something better? never mind what sails could be used. Unlike you I have done these sorts of jobs and I know what things cost - and I am not alone on this thread in saying this. Have a look at the first boat in post#56 so you can see what a finished boat looks like and the sort of gear that is needed

Yards are full of unfinished projects because once one gets started it becomes obvious quickly that the cost in money and time, never mind the skills is way higher then ever imagined. So better to be realistic than following your suggestions and ending up with a messed about unfinished boat.

If you think I am over estimating costs then you should look at my bills for the refit on my GH which includes much of what is required for this boat. Anybody considering this boat would be wise to draw up a costed bill of materials and then add 25% contingency. That would result in the sort of money I suggested

 

[Blueboatman]

Doug748
Thank you for bringing this wonderful boat to the attention of perhaps a wider audience.
I can’t see it being bought on the strength of this thread of course but it’s all publicity for it. That Lowestoft school has produced some amazing craft and a generation of passionate boatbuilders and restorers and this one is a beaut.

Afaik everyone who has contributed on here enjoys actively owning or fettling an older boat.
So I am a tad perplexed at the thruway casual dismissiveness to burn it or chop it into firewood.
I’ve been on here long enough to note the tone goes distinctly glass half empty at the end of the sailing season.
Will it sell? Time will tell.

Stewart, what a shame all your wise words and withering rationality and acerbity and decades of boat buying experience and finally getting the boat of your dreams- Well, has it made you any happier? Because forgive me but I’m not detecting it in your writing at the moment!
Get out there and go sail that GH more. Nothing has to be perfect and it doesn’t have to all be done at once. The only day my boats were ever truly perfect was probably the day I sold each of them
As I quipped all the time ( and still do): The true cost of a boat is divided by the miles sailed and the added years of enjoyable living and the sum is an attractive one

 

[Tranona]

A little bit more having spoken to the broker. What you see is what you get - definitely no mast and sails. I know the surveyor who has been helping the (now deceased) owner and his estimate is that there is minimum £25k needed to get it to basic sailaway condition. Easy to spend another £10k on stuff to bring it up to the standard of the one for sale at Woodenships. so not far off my original £50k

If anyone is interested I can put you in touch with the surveyor.

 

[doug748]

A little bit more having spoken to the broker. What you see is what you get - definitely no mast and sails. I know the surveyor who has been helping the (now deceased) owner and his estimate is that there is minimum £25k needed to get it to basic sailaway condition. Easy to spend another £10k on stuff to bring it up to the standard of the one for sale at Woodenships. so not far off my original £50k

If anyone is interested I can put you in touch with the surveyor.

Exactly. So nearer my 10 grand than your 50.

Plus we must investigate how a surveyor intends to spend his 25k, new mast and rigging, new sails, professional fit out? I will stick to my original cheap and cheerful estimate.

.

 

[dunedin]

Exactly. So nearer my 10 grand than your 50.

Plus we must investigate how a surveyor intends to spend his 25k, new mast and rigging, new sails, professional fit out? I will stick to my original cheap and cheerful estimate.

.

So go ahead and buy it then if so confident, complete it and sell on at a profit. If you can.

Fitting a rig and sails that are not the right size and shape for the design would not create a desirable boat, but a dog that doesn’t handle or sail at all well. Which would be worse than buying another second hand boat that is already setup with a rig that matches the hull.
And can’t put a mast in now and easily change later - as every single element of standing and running rigging plus sails would need to be changed.

If buying a boat like that it would need to be finished properly to be worth the time and effort. IMHO

 

[Poignard]

Is there any reason why our prospective buyer couldn't contruct his own spars, using the guidance given in numerous books; like this example?

Spars - Mastering Skills with the WoodenBoat School

Books - Mastering Skills with the WoodenBoat School

So long as he is willing to learn what he doesn't know, and is careful, (measuring twice and cutting once), &c., I don't see why he couldn't do it.

The main pitfall to avoid, of course, is coming on this forum seeking advice or, God forbid, encouragement ...........................

 

[Wansworth]

Is there any reason why our prospective buyer couldn't contruct his own spars, using the guidance given in numerous books; like this example?

Spars - Mastering Skills with the WoodenBoat School

Books - Mastering Skills with the WoodenBoat School

So long as he is willing to learn what he doesn't know, and is careful, (measuring twice and cutting once), &c., I don't he why he couldn't do it.

The main pitfall to avoid, of course, is coming on this forum seeking advice............................

Yes spar making is well within the grasp of homewoodworker especially now with Epoxy glue and filler

 

[Tranona]

Exactly. So nearer my 10 grand than your 50.

Plus we must investigate how a surveyor intends to spend his 25k, new mast and rigging, new sails, professional fit out? I will stick to my original cheap and cheerful estimate.

.

You really do not get it. £25k is 2.5 times your guess. My £50k (which includes the purchase price of £10k) was for a boat finished to a high standard for cruising NOT a sailaway. I directed you top the boat for sale at Woodenships to give you an indication of what a well equipped cruising boat looks like - and just the gear would add £10-15k to a "sailaway" boat. £25k would just about cover materials only, mast. rigging, sails, deck gear, winches, pulpit, pushpit, stem head, anchor and chain, electrics, lighting plumbing and finishing the engine installation. In other words enough to get the boat in sailing condition and capable of passing a survey for insurance.

 

[Tranona]

Is there any reason why our prospective buyer couldn't contruct his own spars, using the guidance given in numerous books; like this example?

Spars - Mastering Skills with the WoodenBoat School

Books - Mastering Skills with the WoodenBoat School

So long as he is willing to learn what he doesn't know, and is careful, (measuring twice and cutting once), &c., I don't see why he couldn't do it.

The main pitfall to avoid, of course, is coming on this forum seeking advice or, God forbid, encouragement ...........................

No reason at all if the person has the skills. The basic materials are cheap but you need lots of space, equipment for machining, help in gluing up to get the basic poles (mast and boom). BUT you are then only halfway there as you need to have all the fittings - bands, gooseneck masthead fittings, spreaders tangs, wiring made to measure as these things are generally not available from stock. I have made spars in the past and it is not as easy as it looks. There are still firms who can make wooden masts but they are no cheaper than aluminium, mainly because a large proportion of the total cost is in fittings, hardware, wire, rope etc is the same more or less whatever the spar is made of.

 

[Poignard]

No reason at all if the person has the skills. The basic materials are cheap but you need lots of space, equipment for machining, help in gluing up to get the basic poles (mast and boom). BUT you are then only halfway there as you need to have all the fittings - bands, gooseneck masthead fittings, spreaders tangs, wiring made to measure as these things are generally not available from stock. I have made spars in the past and it is not as easy as it looks. There are still firms who can make wooden masts but they are no cheaper than aluminium, mainly because a large proportion of the total cost is in fittings, hardware, wire, rope etc is the same more or less whatever the spar is made of.

Your first sentence says all that needs to be said. The rest is, if you'll forgive my saying so, a statement of the bleeding obvious.

When I first went sailing, in 1958, I don't think there were any aluminium spars in use. I certainly don't recall seeing any.

Small sailing craft had timber spars, either solid or built up.

Also, in that era, many aspiring amateur sailors who could not afford to buy a boat either built their own or converted ships' lifeboats.

Plans were widely available for the amateur builder, together with excellent books explaining how to to do the necessary work from authors such as Verney, Lewis, Chapelle, etc.

Many fine, and some not so fine, craft were built. Many were, no doubt, not completed. People got on and did things, and enjoyed doing them.

The difference between you and I is that whereas I take pleasure in people's successes, you seem derive pleasure in contemplating their failures. I am an optimist - you are a pessimist.

Can't be helped, it's what we are.


Anyway, if I were not now too old, and a cripple, I would seriously consider buying the attractive boat that is the subject of this thread, and completing her.

If I decided on wooden spars, I would make them. I would also make the mast fittings, keeping to the simple designs of the period.

The rigging would also be DIY.

I would not try to make the sails.


Above all, I would enjoy doing it.

 

[Wansworth]

Your first sentence says all that needs to be said. The rest is, if you'll forgive my saying so, a statement of the bleeding obvious.

When I first went sailing, in 1958, I don't think there were any aluminium spars in use. I certainly don't recall seeing any.

Small sailing craft had timber spars, either solid or built up.

Also, in that era, many aspiring amateur sailors who could not afford to buy a boat either built their own or converted ships' lifeboats.

Plans were widely available for the amateur builder, together with excellent books explaining how to to do the necessary work from authors such as Verney, Lewis, Chapelle, etc.

Many fine, and some not so fine, craft were built. Many were, no doubt, not completed. People got on and did things, and enjoyed doing them.

The difference between you and I is that whereas I take pleasure in people's successes, you seem derive pleasure in contemplating their failures. I am an optimist - you are a pessimist.

Can't be helped, it's what we are.


Anyway, if I were not now too old, and a cripple, I would seriously consider buying the attractive boat that is the subject of this thread, and completing her.

If I decided on wooden spars, I would make them. I would also make the mast fittings, keeping to the simple designs of the period.

The rigging would also be DIY.

I would not try to make the sails.


Above all, I would enjoy doing it.

A great post,If I may say so!

 

[Wansworth]

I think though Iam probably wrong are estemed member Tranona has been in the trade and has a rather jaundiced view of our amateur fumbling.We are luck to have hi to temper are extravagant ideas .

 

[dunedin]

Your first sentence says all that needs to be said. The rest is, if you'll forgive my saying so, a statement of the bleeding obvious.

When I first went sailing, in 1958, I don't think there were any aluminium spars in use. I certainly don't recall seeing any.

Small sailing craft had timber spars, either solid or built up.

Also, in that era, many aspiring amateur sailors who could not afford to buy a boat either built their own or converted ships' lifeboats.

Plans were widely available for the amateur builder, together with excellent books explaining how to to do the necessary work from authors such as Verney, Lewis, Chapelle, etc.

Many fine, and some not so fine, craft were built. Many were, no doubt, not completed. People got on and did things, and enjoyed doing them.

The difference between you and I is that whereas I take pleasure in people's successes, you seem derive pleasure in contemplating their failures. I am an optimist - you are a pessimist.

Can't be helped, it's what we are.


Anyway, if I were not now too old, and a cripple, I would seriously consider buying the attractive boat that is the subject of this thread, and completing her.

If I decided on wooden spars, I would make them. I would also make the mast fittings, keeping to the simple designs of the period.

The rigging would also be DIY.

I would not try to make the sails.


Above all, I would enjoy doing it.

But again, the key bit is “when I began sailing in 1958” …..
It is the same reason why lovely classic cars from the 1940s, 1950s and even 1960s are often failing to sell, whereas huge prices sometimes being paid for 1980s Ford Escorts etc.
This sort of boat tends to appeal more to those who are selling up than buying, perhaps.
Hopefully the exception of a younger person who (a) has nostalgia for that era of boat and (b) has the free time and money to undertake such a project, will come along to buy, complete and perhaps even sail this boat.
But the mindset of those who are retired from sailing are often different to those who are a younger generation, and often struggling to fund mortgage and no pension etc.