Advice on size

[lustyd]

What did you end up with? I’m picky too’

we kept the SO36.2 we had and spent the year sailing Ours is the two cabin owners version so it's hard to find a replacement with a bed as big as we have and a shower as good as we have. We'd like more space, but not at the expense of comfort. The 42DS was nice but storage space was limited even compared to ours and the deck was harder to get around because the coachroof was so big.
43DS was a very good contender, really liked that one but very few for sale and the one I viewed in Howth wasn't for sale I was just being nosy

If you can find a good one, the SO45.2 is just about perfect as far as I'm concerned. Sadly the one I put a deposit on had collision damage

 

[KompetentKrew]

What is yours?

Van De Stadt Caribbean, so you won't find another that's quite the same.

I was thinking after I posted though that the right companionway makes the cockpit and cabin feel far less separated.

 

[KompetentKrew]

If you can find a good one, the SO45.2 is just about perfect as far as I'm concerned. Sadly the one I put a deposit on had collision damage

The Sun Odyssey 45.2 was top of my wish list for some time. Spacious, tasteful, great layout - I think it's peak AWB design.

Probably a function of the additional length, the cockpit is significantly larger than a 40'.

 

[Sea Change]

We've ended up with a 47ft Jeanneau. Certainly bigger than we were really looking for but we were in a bit of a tight spot and she was easily the best of the bunch. That does suggest to some extent that boats at this size don't sell for much more than a smaller version.

We never (and I really mean never) use marinas, and we rarely use mooring buoys, so the extra length hasn't cost us much directly. We're currently hauled out and a smaller boat would be $25/month cheaper- although the cutoff is at 40ft so both boats the OP is considering would be the same price.

As has already been said, the difference in cost for systems and equipment really comes down to the actual specs rather than rules of thumb. Our boat is an elongated 45ft design so we actually have the same size sails and rigging as a smaller boat.

There are certainly some advantages to a bigger boat. The waves seem smaller, we feel safer, and we go faster. We have massive tankage and stowage. She's really no harder to manoeuvre than a smaller boat. We use a bit more fuel, but other engine costs are about the same- it's still a couple of filters, an impeller, and a gallon of oil.

Possibly the biggest advantage is that we can carry lots of solar (1350w, we no longer cook with gas) and a nice dinghy on the davits. In fact we carry two dinghies, because I love having a sailing dinghy too.

 

[Dockhead]

. . . No-one with a 42' boat wished that they had bigger bills.

True, but no-one with a 49' boat wished they had a smaller one. Especially at sea.

 

[dunedin]

We've ended up with a 47ft Jeanneau. Certainly bigger than we were really looking for but we were in a bit of a tight spot and she was easily the best of the bunch. That does suggest to some extent that boats at this size don't sell for much more than a smaller version.

We never (and I really mean never) use marinas, and we rarely use mooring buoys, so the extra length hasn't cost us much directly. We're currently hauled out and a smaller boat would be $25/month cheaper- although the cutoff is at 40ft so both boats the OP is considering would be the same price.

As has already been said, the difference in cost for systems and equipment really comes down to the actual specs rather than rules of thumb. Our boat is an elongated 45ft design so we actually have the same size sails and rigging as a smaller boat.

There are certainly some advantages to a bigger boat. The waves seem smaller, we feel safer, and we go faster. We have massive tankage and stowage. She's really no harder to manoeuvre than a smaller boat. We use a bit more fuel, but other engine costs are about the same- it's still a couple of filters, an impeller, and a gallon of oil.

Possibly the biggest advantage is that we can carry lots of solar (1350w, we no longer cook with gas) and a nice dinghy on the davits. In fact we carry two dinghies, because I love having a sailing dinghy too.

Yes, but as i said in post #4 - " depends where planning to sail (realistically, not just dreams). To the Caribbean or round the world the extra length is beneficial."
You are very much in that category - and on anchor most of the time. So bigger definitely better.

But a lot depends on realistic plans. If actually spending time trying to get into marinas and harbours each night in Northern Europe then more conpact may be advantageous.

 

[potentillaCO32]

Yes, but as i said in post #4 - " depends where planning to sail (realistically, not just dreams). To the Caribbean or round the world the extra length is beneficial."
You are very much in that category - and on anchor most of the time. So bigger definitely better.

But a lot depends on realistic plans. If actually spending time trying to get into marinas and harbours each night in Northern Europe then more conpact may be advantageous.

QUite a few times i've radioed in france to see if there is a berth and when busy first question is how big are you. When i say 9m invariably they find a space.

 

[AngusMcDoon]

True, but no-one with a 49' boat wished they had a smaller one. Especially at sea.

The OP is on a tight budget and concerned about running costs. I expect that there are many financially constrained owners who naively bought a 50' boat who wish they had bought something smaller when the big bills start rolling in.

The bigger the boat the more equipment and more expensive equipment they usually have to maintain - steering is now hydraulic, freezer as well as fridge, notoriously unreliable built in generator, twin wheels, instrument and MFD repeaters, multiple en-suite heads, hydronic rather than blown air heating, electric winches, washing machine, water maker etc. That list is just an example. Much of this bigger boat equipment is a step up in maintenance cost and may not be initially apparent like the obvious more expensive items, i.e. sails and rigging, berthing, storage on land and lifting out. That's why maintenance cost approximates a cube of the length. Hull volume increases proportional to the cube, and that space has to be filled.

 

[Blueboatman]

Nice situation to be in!

I might look at the overall weight of each as well as the waterline length ( in theory a longer boat will usually have a ‘purer’ sailing hull and better speed and comfort and load carrying for living aboard.

And whichever one has the best reputation and build quality and of course thrusters for parking in tricky conditions? Charter company operators really know which boats are good/so so/ less than so so..

Finally I might ask a prospective vendor about a test sail and or spending a night aboard - is the smaller boat really OK or is it just all a bit smaller or absolutely perfect.

Big enough size is enough.
But ‘pinched’ becomes irritating if what you’re looking for is liveaboard easy living, fast comfortable passsge making in a wider envelope of conditions.
And sometimes you have to knock about on board for a good few hours in order to get a realistic feel beyond the ‘wow, it’s so much bigger and shinier than what we have now’ initial impact..

It’s a buyers market so reselling in a few years time- who knows?
But right now all commodities have gone up in price so future boat prices may improve a bit ??

Running costs will of course be a factor higher @49 ft because of all that extra area to polish and anti foul and all that extra volume to push along with heavier sails, fuel and ropes etc..but you get a better ride

My two old shillings worth

 

[potentillaCO32]

In perspective struggling with a choice beyween a 40 footer or 49 footer is a wonderful problem to have in life.

 

[Sea Change]

The OP is on a tight budget and concerned about running costs. I expect that there are many financially constrained owners who naively bought a 50' boat who wish they had bought something smaller when the big bills start rolling in.

The bigger the boat the more equipment and more expensive equipment they usually have to maintain - steering is now hydraulic, freezer as well as fridge, notoriously unreliable built in generator, twin wheels, instrument and MFD repeaters, multiple en-suite heads, hydronic rather than blown air heating, electric winches, washing machine, water maker etc. That list is just an example. Much of this bigger boat equipment is a step up in maintenance cost and may not be initially apparent like the obvious more expensive items, i.e. sails and rigging. That's why maintenance cost approximates a cube of the length. Hull volume increases proportional to the cube, and that space has to be filled.

Not disagreeing, but the size of the boat the complexity of its systems don't have to be linked. They often are, of course. It's more likely to have a bow thruster, wiring will be more complex etc. But some things don't follow this pattern.

Our boat has twice the tankage of our old one, meaning that we have less need for a watermaker. We can carry more solar, so less need for a generator. There are still only two of us so the size of fridge etc doesn't necessarily have to change.

 

[flaming]

The OP is on a tight budget and concerned about running costs. I expect that there are many financially constrained owners who naively bought a 50' boat who wish they had bought something smaller when the big bills start rolling in.

The bigger the boat the more equipment and more expensive equipment they usually have to maintain - steering is now hydraulic, freezer as well as fridge, notoriously unreliable built in generator, twin wheels, instrument and MFD repeaters, multiple en-suite heads, hydronic rather than blown air heating, electric winches, washing machine, water maker etc. That list is just an example. Much of this bigger boat equipment is a step up in maintenance cost and may not be initially apparent like the obvious more expensive items, i.e. sails and rigging, berthing, storage on land and lifting out. That's why maintenance cost approximates a cube of the length. Hull volume increases proportional to the cube, and that space has to be filled.

I don't disagree in principal, but how much difference is there really in the systems of a 42 and 49 footer?

There's a big jump from mid 30s to early 40s, where items like freezers, electric winches etc start becoming more common but I'm not sure there is the same difference again before you get into the 50s.

That said, I think I would be gently steering the OP towards the smaller boat. That size is generally considered to be pretty good for a couple with occasional guests. And if you are generally going to be spending the next 3-4 years in the Solent and surrounding areas staying around the 40 mark will assure that most places you go you're not out of the ordinary and have to be accommodated specially.

 

[AngusMcDoon]

I don't disagree in principal, but how much difference is there really in the systems of a 42 and 49 footer?

It was just a generalisation. Here's an example. Just been talking to a forum member whose bow thruster control panel has failed on his 47' boat. I may be able to help by making a replacement because the original panel is no longer available and the manufacturer has washed their hands of it. They just want to sell a complete new thruster. Cost of replacement? Over £8000. When those bills roll in on a 50 footer you need to be sitting down.

 

[flaming]

It was just a generalisation. Here's an example. Just been talking to a forum member whose bow thruster control panel has failed on his 47' boat. I may be able to help by making a replacement because the original panel is no longer available and the manufacturer has washed their hands of it. They just want to sell a complete new thruster. Cost of replacement? Over £8000. When those bills roll in on a 50 footer you need to be sitting down.

For sure. But is the bow thruster in the 42 footer a different model?

 

[lustyd]

That size is generally considered to be pretty good for a couple with occasional guests

In theory, yes. The 42DS though is almost always a 2 cabin boat, so the couple live in the stern owners cabin and their belongings live in the v-berth. Where then do the guests stay? It's easy to say clear out the v-berth until you live aboard and understand how much needs to be re-homed for guests to come aboard. We've given up having guests on our 36.2, and we have quite a bit more storage space than the 42DS

 

[Sea Change]

In theory, yes. The 42DS though is almost always a 2 cabin boat, so the couple live in the stern owners cabin and their belongings live in the v-berth. Where then do the guests stay? It's easy to say clear out the v-berth until you live aboard and understand how much needs to be re-homed for guests to come aboard. We've given up having guests on our 36.2, and we have quite a bit more storage space than the 42DS

I did my day skipper on a 42DS, and I was a bit underwhelmed. At least on the one I was on, you couldn't sleep in the saloon because the table was fixed and the settees were curved. We actually had a large ball fender down below as an extra seat at the table

Not the way that I would choose to lay out an interior. It's likely designed for weekend use rather than liveaboard.

Of course not many designers are catering to us liveaboards, so we have to take what we can get.

 

[lustyd]

I can't imagine why someone would try to use one as a school boat! I think it would be a nice liveaboard if you accept the limitations of only having a couple on board and staying in warmer places (to reduce quantity of stuff needed!). The big windows and higher platform would definitely be a bonus.

 

[AngusMcDoon]

For sure. But is the bow thruster in the 42 footer a different model?

Yes. £1500 rather than £8000. Tunnel vs swing. The cost difference is because of the different design, but is an example of a bigger boat having more expensive equipment. It's just an example, and no doubt there will be posts saying my 49 footer has the same blah blah blah... However, I stand by my generalisation that a 49' boat will cost significantly more to maintain that a 42'. Others will disagree.

 

[Baggywrinkle]

I suspect there is no right answer to this question.
I have an opportunity to buy a 49 Jeanneau SO or a 42 DS for roughly the same price. Both immaculate and well looked after and at a similar price.

In the future we’d like to do some extending sailing as a couple with occasional friends joining but this is probably 3 years away.

They are both at the top of our budget and whilst I’d like the bigger boat I’m thinking about the running costs and also what would happen if circumstances change and I have to sell - is a boat at 49 ft harder to sell than 42ft?

In the meantime will I have too much boat if I buy the 49 and will 7ft draft in the Solent be a pain.

I realise there is no right answer and there is a lot of it depends but I be interested to hear thoughts and the arguments for going one way or the other, or any other options.

I just went up 2m in loa, not far off 42 & 49ft ... I had the same plan, extended sailing in 3 years, now one year in with 2 to go - spent last year and this year so far re-fitting and upgrading.

Observations:
1. Insurance not much different, a few hundred euros a year
2. Antifouling much more .... bigger boats have a hell of a lot of surface area under the water. Used to be around 800-1000€ for hull polish and anti-fouling, now up at €1500+
3. Much more stable .... conditions that would have had us hanging on to our G&Ts in the past no longer have the same effect - still getting used to that.
4. Manoeuvrability, no real difference, just need more space for the bigger boat. Once out of the marina, no discernible difference other than longer and heavier = more stability and comfort.
5. Much less lively at anchor.
6. Marina fees, about €1000 a year higher.
7. Replacement sails sail area went from 63 to 99 m² ... £4550 for a bog standard dacron furling main & genoa and a triradial cruising chute/snubber in 2017. For the new 44 footer in 2025: €27,500 for an Elvstrom fully battened furling main & furling genoa (both Hydranet Radial), plus furling code zero 83 m² (Trioptimal BZ 60 laminate) + fittings and mounting (needed a new halyard fitting in the mast for the code zero and a Batsystem bowsprit)
8. Engine bigger, servicing costs slightly higher (more oil) but not much in it.
9. Running rigging ... everything is one or more sizes bigger, and longer .... probably 20% oncost.
10. Standing rigging ... not touched yet, rig inspection was good, but the diameter of all the shrouds is bigger and they are all longer due to increased mast height.
11. We can no longer sneak under the bridge in Uglain.
12. The narrow passages at bridges on Mali Losinj and Osor are much more nail-biting - due to increased beam there is not much clearance to the sides.
13. Re-wiring ... cable lengths are huge compared to the last boat, lost count of amount I have spent on cable, and it has to be thicker too as the voltage drop over longer runs needs to be kept in check.
14. Overnight in a marina that isn't home - hardly ever do it but when I do it makes me smart.
15. Crane out calculated on length (with a maximum weight) - so a few hundred extra for haul out.
16: Bimini, Sprayhood, Solar arch, Anchor, Winches, blocks etc. etc. all proportionally more expensive.

Both boats have 3 sleeping cabins but the new boat has loads more space ... easily get 3 couples plus stuff for a few weeks, but we normally sail as a couple.

 

[dunedin]

In theory, yes. The 42DS though is almost always a 2 cabin boat, so the couple live in the stern owners cabin and their belongings live in the v-berth. Where then do the guests stay? It's easy to say clear out the v-berth until you live aboard and understand how much needs to be re-homed for guests to come aboard. We've given up having guests on our 36.2, and we have quite a bit more storage space than the 42DS

Whilst Jeanneau make some nice boats, and you can get a lot of LOA for not much money on the older boats …… there are countless other brands of boats which could also be considered to get a better fit to needs if necessary. Limiting to one brand is, well, limiting!