Using tiller pilot on outboard motor

[Alan S]

Does anyone have experience of using a tiller pilot to steer an outboard motor?

I'm talking about a small outboard powered motor cruiser (no rudder) and running at displacement speed.

I realise a remote fluxgate compass may be required due to magnetic interference but would steering by the outboard instead of a rudder be an issue?

 

[AntarcticPilot]

I use a tiller pilot on my boat, and I think the only thing I can imagine as a problem would be getting the right settings. Out of the box, they expect to give quite large tiller movements that might be excessive for an outboard. However, the gain etc. is adjustable on the Raymarine tiller pilot; I can't speak for other brands. But initially, you might find that it oversteers until you find the right settings. Changing the settings is not intuitive!

You will need to be able to disconnect or ensure there's no resistance in the existing steering if there's wheel steering.

 

[andsarkit]

Most outboards have a steering clamping collar to stop it going to full lock if you let go of the tiller. This will have to be fully slackened or you will be fighting the friction.
I assume the outboard is only a few HP and you will still be using a kill cord.

 

[Refueler]

Given that even my ancient AH800, AH1000 and AH2000 tiller pilots take the compass as an indicator of swing and don't care about what compass heading number is ... and that they 'learn' to steer the boat as they work ... I really don't see any problem.

I would assume that it would be good idea not to vary the engine speed while its connected .. the magnetics of the flywheel and coils under will change with RPM .. and to closely monitor ready to throw the arm off if it doesn't settle within reasonable time.

If OP can get one of the older TP's like my AH2000 which has separate compass to the operating ram / arm ... that would bring the compass away from the engine ... and being the 2000 - it has plenty of power to turn the O/bd ....

 

[Alan S]

Thanks for rrplies. Looks like it's worth trying then.
If anyone has any actual experience of this I would like to know how well it works in practice.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

One thing leant from experience - make sure you get the sense correct! They can be mounted either side of the tiller so you need to tell it which side it's mounted. I know because I got it wrong and wonder why the steering was haywire!

 

[thinwater]

Does anyone have experience of using a tiller pilot to steer an outboard motor?

I'm talking about a small outboard powered motor cruiser (no rudder) and running at displacement speed.

I realise a remote fluxgate compass may be required due to magnetic interference but would steering by the outboard instead of a rudder be an issue?

I don't think there is that much interference. The outboard tiller is mostly aluminum and SS. It would be simple enough to find out by taking a hiking compass or even your smart phone (it has a compass app) and placing it wherever the compass of the tiller pilot would be (it is located near where the rod comes in and out of the housing). Turn the boat through 360 degrees in 90 degree increments and se how it does. Also, remember that slight deviations don't matter; set the course by the helm compass and ignore that the reading on the tiller pilot is 10 degrees different. It doesn't matter.

And all of the above advise.

Do get the heavier duty version; the outboard may require more force.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

I don't think there is that much interference. The outboard tiller is mostly aluminum and SS. It would be simple enough to find out by taking a hiking compass or even your smart phone (it has a compass app) and placing it wherever the compass of the tiller pilot would be (it is located near where the rod comes in and out of the housing). Turn the boat through 360 degrees in 90 degree increments and se how it does. Also, remember that slight deviations don't matter; set the course by the helm compass and ignore that the reading on the tiller pilot is 10 degrees different. It doesn't matter.

And all of the above advise.

Do get the heavier duty version; the outboard may require more force.

The interference is from the electrical current in the ignition system of the outboard, not the metal, though ferrous metal would have an effect.

 

[Poignard]

If the tillerpilotmust be kept well away from the outboard motor, it wouldn't be difficult to rig up another tiller; forward of the out board and connected to to it with two lines.

 

[oldharry]

Many outboards use magnetic impulse truggering hall switches to determine crankshaft position, or have they switched over to optical sensing? In any case the working parts of the engine will be steel - crankshaft, driveshaft etc - more than enought to throw an ap off. The speaker magnet in my phone would invariably make the AP havea hissy fit taking me all over the place until I realised what was causing it!

 

[thinwater]

The interference is from the electrical current in the ignition system of the outboard, not the metal, though ferrous metal would have an effect.

Yup, that can be an issue. But I know a good many sailors that have tiller pilots mounted very close to the outboard and they use them while it is running.

Really, if the power is that noisy, it needs additional filtration (typically ~ 500 mF EC between the leads) to prevent interference from other instruments. Rare, but not that rare.

Me, I would temporarily install it (basically just put it in position with power, but not drill holes), observe any problems, and then cross the bridges. Most likely, none of these things will happen.

 

[Refueler]

Blimey ... just a simple mount - test and go ... no need for any fancy bits and bobs ...

 

[Daydream believer]

If the OB throttle is the handle grip then one might wonder how one can attach the AP.
If it is like an old Seagull one can insert a length of timber in to the handle, complete with the AP pin. Thus, making the arc of attachment much longer than one would have for sailing. That would move the AP away from interference (if it had integral compass) & reduce the effect of excessive ram movement.

 

[Poignard]

If the OB throttle is the handle grip then one might wonder how one can attach the AP.
If it is like an old Segull one can insert a length of timber in to the handle, complete with the AP pin. Thus, making the arc of attachment much longer than one would have for sailing. That would move the AP away from interference (if it had integral compass) & reduce the effect of excessive ram movement.

It would but the longer the tiller the less the angle through which it could travel.

With the Navico TP10 I had, the distance between the pin and the rudder pintle should be 18".

 

[Daydream believer]

It would but the longer the tiller the less the angle through which it could travel.

With the Navico TP10 I had, the distance between the pin and the rudder pintle should be 18".

View attachment 185723

Yes, but the point is that you do not want the tiller to travel through a large angle. If you look at a helm steering an outboard on a straight line the tiller is hardly moved unless knocked off course by a wave. Even then the adjustment needed is quite small. So having a longer arm works in one's favour. Furthermore, it gives more power to a smaller cheaper AP which can take any kickbacks from the prop better.
If the tender is coming to the main vessel, or shore, the crew will detach & take control anyway.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

Yup, that can be an issue. But I know a good many sailors that have tiller pilots mounted very close to the outboard and they use them while it is running.

Really, if the power is that noisy, it needs additional filtration (typically ~ 500 mF EC between the leads) to prevent interference from other instruments. Rare, but not that rare.

Me, I would temporarily install it (basically just put it in position with power, but not drill holes), observe any problems, and then cross the bridges. Most likely, none of these things will happen.

It's not the electrical noise that's the problem, it's the magnetic field arising from current flowing through wires in the ignition circuit, including magnetos, alternators or whatever. It may be partially blocked by the cover of the outboard if the cover is metal, and the effect may not be great. But it is a potential problem.

 

[Alan S]

In my case it's an electric outboard taking up to 120A @48V so I think the compass will have to be well away from motor and cables. I have wheel steering which will be disconnected when using pilot. Steering is light but does require a fair amount of helm action in waves so I think I will keep the tiller attachment point short.
Does this sound reasonable?

 

[thinwater]

Take the cables off? Electric start at 48 V? How many HP? A planning hull at what speed?

I take everything back. This sounds more complicated. This is starting to sound more like a wheel steering unit to me, or at least on the fringe of what can work or of what I know. Also outside the applications that tiller pilots are envisioned for. If you are moving the helm a lot you will likely work it to death.

 

[Poignard]

Yes, but the point is that you do not want the tiller to travel through a large angle. If you look at a helm steering an outboard on a straight line the tiller is hardly moved unless knocked off course by a wave. Even then the adjustment needed is quite small. So having a longer arm works in one's favour. Furthermore, it gives more power to a smaller cheaper AP which can take any kickbacks from the prop better.
If the tender is coming to the main vessel, or shore, the crew will detach & take control anyway.

I understand your point but what if he needs to make a major course alteration at short notice, eg to avoid some hazard such as a pot marker or someone getting in his way? When motoring around the Brittany course I have often had to do that, and it is much quicker to make that major course alteration, and then get back on course when the danger is passed, by simply pressing a couple of buttons than it is to switch off the tillerpilot, disengage it from its pin, then re-engage it and switch it on again.

NB What the OP has is not a tender, it's a small outboard powered motor cruiser.

 

[Refueler]

If the OB throttle is the handle grip then one might wonder how one can attach the AP.
If it is like an old Seagull one can insert a length of timber in to the handle, complete with the AP pin. Thus, making the arc of attachment much longer than one would have for sailing. That would move the AP away from interference (if it had integral compass) & reduce the effect of excessive ram movement.

easy ... mount a Z bracket under the arm .. so the Tp connects on that instead of direct to the O/bd arm ... similar to what some people use on tillers. This can also improve the horizontal alignment where most O/bd arms would be low down ... if the Z bracket was mounted to TOP of O/bd arm.