Used boat buying concerns

[Hillbilly]

Hi all,

First time poster...We Are looking at a used boat purchase, and have found what at first looked like an exemplary example of what we are after (Broom 370).

Built 2012, one owner from new, Immaculate inside and out, great spec, low engine hours. Digging a bit deeper, it turns out boat has never been lifted, so no attention to anti foul, also presuming anodes evaporated long long ago on this basis. Engines serviced once 'about' two years ago (2 x D6 330).

The seller wants top money for the boat, obviously due to the presentation state, but these omissions in maintaining a (new to them) boat seems very odd.

Given the very low engine hours, I'm not too worried about the gaps in servicing, as hours are very low, and the engines can be checked over, but I am bothered by the boat never having been lifted, and then obviously never having a scrape and re-application of anti foul, and probably more importantly, being afloat (in fresh water) without anodes, as I can only presume best case the original ones disappeared a few years ago.

Keen to hear other people's thoughts on these items.

Thanks all.

 

[Whitelighter]

Lift it, check stern gear. Electrolysis will be easy to spot and rectify
Boat is not going to be hurt by never being antifouled or cleaned. Slow, but not damaged

Engine servicing is often hours based fir the big stuff so not surprised it's had 1 in five years.
Shafts so now rubber bits to perish. I'd want the whole thing surveyed and then trailed with any faults put right.

Others will be along to say this justifys you offering 50% of the asking price and walking away when it's not accepted. My view: if you like the boat the problems listed above need checking hut if there are no subsequent issues it wouldn't put me off

 

[Bigplumbs]

Have it lifted and loo9k at it. It is only 5 years old so most likely all will be fine

 

[sunquest]

Give Brooms a call at Brundall, many of the boats there stay in year in year out. Or as another poster wrote get it lifted.
It’s worth remembering GRP is not moisture resistant and a regular lift out for around 4 - 6 weeks helps keep the hull dry. Also a pre purchase survey will determine the moisture content.

 

[[2068]]

Cleaning / antifouling the hull should not be an issue.

If this had been a sterndrive boat, then you’d be most likely be looking at a disaster.

But with a shaftdrive ... check propellors, p-brackets and cutlass bearings.
All could be ok, or not (if the propellors have been dissolving).
Last time I checked, anodes were cheaper than propellors.

Either way, not necessarily a deal-breaker, so long as you can come to an agreement over the cost to remediate anything found.

.

 

[volvopaul]

Hi all,

First time poster...We Are looking at a used boat purchase, and have found what at first looked like an exemplary example of what we are after (Broom 370).

Built 2012, one owner from new, Immaculate inside and out, great spec, low engine hours. Digging a bit deeper, it turns out boat has never been lifted, so no attention to anti foul, also presuming anodes evaporated long long ago on this basis. Engines serviced once 'about' two years ago (2 x D6 330).

The seller wants top money for the boat, obviously due to the presentation state, but these omissions in maintaining a (new to them) boat seems very odd.

Given the very low engine hours, I'm not too worried about the gaps in servicing, as hours are very low, and the engines can be checked over, but I am bothered by the boat never having been lifted, and then obviously never having a scrape and re-application of anti foul, and probably more importantly, being afloat (in fresh water) without anodes, as I can only presume best case the original ones disappeared a few years ago.

Keen to hear other people's thoughts on these items.

Thanks all.

Brooms are a good boat I work on many , on one this week an old 44 from 1999 you wouldn't think it was this old.
Any boats sterngear will fall away if not protected no make is irrelevant.
1 service I 5 years, not good on any engine and certainly not good on a VP D6 or D4 as thy already have the dreaded poor coolers design whereby they leak creating more issues where the salt water drains off on to, the coolers have a pencil anode that must be changed very 12 months so I'd guess there could be some cooler corrosion , no ore fuel filters change, so who's kept there eye on a potential diesel bug issue, on a common rail engine this can be bad news .

Get the boats structure checked by a surveyor and the engines checked and sea trailed by the nearest dealer or me if it's on my patch.

 

[Portofino]

I think a survey will throw up quite a bit regarding no anode s in 5 years ,even in fresh .
Also ultra low hrs , lack of use etc on D6 ,s hmm , can,t see those water pumps not 9issing them selves after a good hr at 3200 rpm , assuming it’s still running after 60 mins alarm wise .
Thinking seals , joints , etc maybe stuck thermostat s , stuck something or other , gunge sodden filters in the gearbox and so on .
Offer to bung him enough £100,s to cover diesel for a sea trail , not 30 mins —but —3 hrs @ over 3000 rpm .
Arrange a mate to follow , with a tow rope

 

[Whitelighter]

Brooms are a good boat I work on many , on one this week an old 44 from 1999 you wouldn't think it was this old.
Any boats sterngear will fall away if not protected no make is irrelevant.
1 service I 5 years, not good on any engine and certainly not good on a VP D6 or D4 as thy already have the dreaded poor coolers design whereby they leak creating more issues where the salt water drains off on to, the coolers have a pencil anode that must be changed very 12 months so I'd guess there could be some cooler corrosion , no ore fuel filters change, so who's kept there eye on a potential diesel bug issue, on a common rail engine this can be bad news .

Get the boats structure checked by a surveyor and the engines checked and sea trailed by the nearest dealer or me if it's on my patch.

Fresh water boat (see op) so salt water corrosion not an issue

 

[Bigplumbs]

Some people on here certainly know how to be a Prophet off doom and depress people. How is your glass.................. half full or half empty

 

[oldgit]

Might be worth a post on the Thames forum, there is probably somebody in the same marina or stretch of river who knows the boat and may have some clues as to its past history.
Have a few friends with boats on freshwater Thames who simply lift and check stuff once year, rarely A/F and change anodes purely on condition.
Would have thought a lift is going to answer most of your concerns and a survey, the rest.

 

[Seastoke]

Some people on here certainly know how to be a Prophet off doom and depress people. How is your glass.................. half full or half empty

if I was buying it, my glass would be half full but after spending a lot off cash things went wrong like the things mentioned my glass would be empty ,so surely every bit of advice is welcome ,good or bad

 

[Resolution]

It’s worth remembering GRP is not moisture resistant and a regular lift out for around 4 - 6 weeks helps keep the hull dry.

I never understand this - how on earth can a short interlude of being "dry" make any difference to a "sponge" that spends ninety percent of its life sitting in water?
Or is GRP not not moisture resistant, from outside at least?

 

[volvopaul]

Fresh water boat (see op) so salt water corrosion not an issue

Same applies Jez it's called electrolysis , the 44 I'm working on tomorrow needs prop repairs and has been on the Trent the last 6 years, the D range coolers are a great source of income for Penta dealers, the fresh water boats don't show problems until you pull them apart.

 

[sunquest]

I never understand this - how on earth can a short interlude of being "dry" make any difference to a "sponge" that spends ninety percent of its life sitting in water?
Or is GRP not not moisture resistant, from outside at least?

Tee hee don’t shoot the messenger, that’s what I was told by the surveyor when I purchased my boat. He asked how long it was out of the water as his moisture meter would give different readings.

 

[oldgit]

The question of drying out somehow being vital only really appears to be commonly accepted in the yachting fraternity.
In fact curiously enough, osmosis appears to be greater problem with yachts.which spent half their life ashore, than with motorboats.

 

[gjgm]

Tee hee don’t shoot the messenger, that’s what I was told by the surveyor when I purchased my boat. He asked how long it was out of the water as his moisture meter would give different readings.

And there is plenty to read about surveyors and their super moisture readers!
Next this boat is going to be falling apart with osmosis because it has been in water?

 

[Boat2016]

I think a survey will throw up quite a bit regarding no anode s in 5 years ,even in fresh .
Also ultra low hrs , lack of use etc on D6 ,s hmm , can,t see those water pumps not 9issing them selves after a good hr at 3200 rpm , assuming it’s still running after 60 mins alarm wise .
Thinking seals , joints , etc maybe stuck thermostat s , stuck something or other , gunge sodden filters in the gearbox and so on .
Offer to bung him enough £100,s to cover diesel for a sea trail , not 30 mins —but —3 hrs @ over 3000 rpm .
Arrange a mate to follow , with a tow rope

It’s comments like this that throw doubt into the equation, I see you put a lot of advise on here about engines, I take it you are in the trade and have a lot of experience to share ?

 

[Hillbilly]

Hi all, thanks for the comments, all very much appreciated. A lift out and survey is a must. I'm pretty confident a survey would pickup any obvious items that have deteriorated due lack of anodes, especially given some of the comments.

Given a few of the comments, it seems low hours on the engines may be detrimental, rather than positive. It will be difficult to put much load on them under any sort of trial, as she sits on the upper Thames. My planned use for the vessel was going to be inland, with a couple of coastal trips per season. I've now got an image of the engines tearing theirselves apart upon opening her up on the lower Thames!!

How likely is it that a VP engineer could pick up on any signs of trouble without being able to put much load on the units? I'm new to bigger engines, having always had single Nani diesels.

Thanks again for the comments so far.

 

[[2068]]

There's a set of problems that might reveal themselves at low revs on a river (leaks, poor starting rough running).
There's an entirely different set of problems that might become apparent at sustained high revs (turbo boost, overheating etc.).

Having said this, I bought the current boat on the basis of a "canal" trial at 30kts for a few seconds, and so far, mostly good.

 

[oldgit]

Many decent sized boats start their lives on the Thames or are based there for many years.
A fairly affluent part of the world.
Due to the restricted nature of the river, a entire outing probably involves no more than a few locks per day ( at best) a couple of hours under way in each direction. A week away is a real adventure but probably would no add more than 30 hours to the logs.
Low hours are the norm up there.
A safe and predictable cruising area many skippers appear to be reluctant to venture below Teddington, the boat spends most of it life sitting quietly moored with the odd venture to the closest bit of river bank adjacent to the marina.Therefore never exposed to the rigours of wind/tides and waves which test an engine to its extremes.
Eventually, the virtually unused boat can be be left lying idle for years before finally being put up for sale.
The new owner merely needs to be aware of its previous life.
A fair proportion of boats in my club either started life or spent time on the Thames, it has proved a handy local source of used boats,able to be bought home by water(no expensive transportation by road with lifts in/out) and only a couple of days in transit.
If the arch has been hinged,it almost certainly has been on the Thames at some point.
Have helped to bring home two or three last season, both winter and summer.
All the boats made it round without major incident but all definately needed the sort of remedial work that would have been considered vital when based anywhere salty..
All were surveyed.
Oil changes/ filters and stuff had been done but impellors semed to be forgotton as was repacking stern glands and freeing up raw water intakes.
On all the boats, alloy anodes were perfect and the A/F was hardly touched.
Watch out for "lock rash" long term residents on the river are going to come into contact with unprotected concrete at some point.
All the boats have survived to boat another day