Unknown unknowns: Longer trips

[Daydream believer]

The OP seems to suggest 2-3 weeks to get to La Rochelle after leaving his cruise in company
It depends if he is just intending to sail to a point just to say " I sailed there" - A bit like when I sailed round UK the first time.(I had to do it a second time to appreciate the places because one really needs to stop a minimum of a day just to see what a place is like)

So on the basis of sail a day, rest a day (plus the bits where one has to anchor to wait for the tide to change) a trip from Solent to Camaret & back will take 12 days to get to Camaret & the same to get back & that does not allow for adverse weather. (allowing sensible day sails, not excessively long trips) So that is 24 days which can easily turn to 4 weeks . If your friends dally for the first week - which they may well do then aim for L aberwrac'h maximum. Call in at Leizardrieux & Treguier. That will give one the experience at navigating the French coast & dealing with the tides in that area.

I would suggest that sailing around the Solent & along to Falmouth is a milk run & in spite of one's confidence, the first time one approaches some of the small anchorages, when there is a bit of swell about can be frightening to say the least. It requires a much higher level of skill.

There are some other hazards, other than rocks, that I have not noticed on this thread so far. That is lobster pots & weed. Last year there was a lot of really long weed that was as strong as rope & I had several instances of it round my prop. I towed one lump for 65 miles before I managed to drop it just before I entered St Peter Port at 01-00 hours. So the OP might consider some means of cutting weed of his prop.

It is easy for the armchair sailors to say "go for it" & to an extent I agree. However, one would be best advised to do it in steps with much smaller targets that are easier to attain. It gives one greater satisfaction to exceed those, than to fail a higher one.

 

[KellysEye]

>Contrary to an opinion expressed above, you do need a windvane. I've been offshore in a 27 footer (Biscay, Canaries, Azores) and it steered for over half the time - invaluable.

I agree for a single hander it will act a second crew member that doesn't sleep or eat anything. Our Hydrovane was our third crew member.

 

[steve350]

Have a look at the Jester challenge website. Look in the Articles menu and you'll find a video by Len Hiley where he demonstrates simple self steering solutions. The vid was made on his return from the Azores. Your Cheverton Caravel is a lovely design being stable and sure footed, I think Len's method would work well,
You've got the boat, the inclination and enough experience for a successful passage

 

[PhillM]

OK so more pans coming together.

I have added more water capacity (now 85L) and more cans for fuel (now total 75L) and a syphon/pump, so I think I should have at least 15 days range.

I shall be measuring up for Solar next weekend. Worst case I will get a semi-flex panel and lie it in the cockpit in good weather. Does that sound OK or do I really need a permanent mount?

I am considering extra battery capacity. Don't I have to buy matched batteries (age / make / model) for a bank? If I do that is going to double the cost as well as me needing to upgrade the charger. This could come in at £350, which may make other things less affordable.

Roller reefing - OK yes, you talked me into it. It is time to take that plunge. I am meeting the rigger next week for a rig check and this is now top of the agenda.

Listening to comments above, it does look like a windvane should be on my shopping list. There do not appear to be many 2nd hand about atm so I'm looking a new Seafeather as they seem to have a good reputation, good price (about £2K) and best of all availability in time to learn how to use it properly. Any one had any experience with this or similar products?

Also, I have an expired EPIRB. Am wondering if I should replace the battery at a cost of about £200, buy a PLB and wear it or use a SPOT Tracker with emergency button. Again, comments and advice welcome.

Thanks!

 

[oldmanofthehills]

OK so more pans coming together.

I have added more water capacity (now 85L) and more cans for fuel (now total 75L) and a syphon/pump, so I think I should have at least 15 days range.

I shall be measuring up for Solar next weekend. Worst case I will get a semi-flex panel and lie it in the cockpit in good weather. Does that sound OK or do I really need a permanent mount?

I am considering extra battery capacity. Don't I have to buy matched batteries (age / make / model) for a bank? If I do that is going to double the cost as well as me needing to upgrade the charger. This could come in at £350, which may make other things less affordable.

Roller reefing - OK yes, you talked me into it. It is time to take that plunge. I am meeting the rigger next week for a rig check and this is now top of the agenda.

Listening to comments above, it does look like a windvane should be on my shopping list. There do not appear to be many 2nd hand about atm so I'm looking a new Seafeather as they seem to have a good reputation, good price (about £2K) and best of all availability in time to learn how to use it properly. Any one had any experience with this or similar products?

Also, I have an expired EPIRB. Am wondering if I should replace the battery at a cost of about £200, buy a PLB and wear it or use a SPOT Tracker with emergency button. Again, comments and advice welcome.

Thanks!

Amp hour rating of extra battery is not important. All 12v batteries charge at about 13.5v so linking them in parallel to charge not a great issue or just swap connections when you are charging the spare. A slightly old worn battery as back up is fine as you dont want it to start a great big diesel van. It should not be left connected once charged as that way it is no longer a spare.

Plastimo roller furling is fine and about £500, however to start with you will be fine with hank on as you are only planning one long stop hop at first and will want to get good weather for that. Once you get more confident and start to wander out into uncertain weather then you really might want roller furling. Roller furling when jambed is no fun when coming into port in F6/7 so its not a cure for all ills, just mostly better most of the time.

And however nice it would be to have a windvane most of us do without windvanes even for long crossings. Maybe sometime but not a priority yet. (if I was really going to pay vast sums like £2000 I would go for a hydrovane which has independent rudder)

 

[GHA]

........
I shall be measuring up for Solar next weekend. Worst case I will get a semi-flex panel and lie it in the cockpit in good weather. Does that sound OK or do I really need a permanent mount?
........
Listening to comments above, it does look like a windvane should be on my shopping list.

Some more thoughts - you'd prob get away without a windvane but will almost certainly mean running the engine to charge and if you end up doing a load of longish offshores then you'll shorten the batt life so long run if the budget will stretch to a windvane then it's a really good investment - if and when the batts die the boat can still function on next to no power, bright LED up top and vane steering. Least you can still have a functioning boat. Permanent mount for solar would be a really good idea, hard to stress enough just how long it takes to get up to full charge, good to get every amp you can in there. I've 2 x 100w on the guard rails, .... no guard rails would scare the absolute crap out of me out there.. ..

 

[PhillM]

Some more thoughts - you'd prob get away without a windvane but will almost certainly mean running the engine to charge and if you end up doing a load of longish offshores then you'll shorten the batt life so long run if the budget will stretch to a windvane then it's a really good investment - if and when the batts die the boat can still function on next to no power, bright LED up top and vane steering. Least you can still have a functioning boat. Permanent mount for solar would be a really good idea, hard to stress enough just how long it takes to get up to full charge, good to get every amp you can in there. I've 2 x 100w on the guard rails, .... no guard rails would scare the absolute crap out of me out there.. ..

Thank you, loads of good advice. I am really ramping up for the Jester Baltimore (did I say that out loud - email to EST on Saturday and awaiting a reply) then the Azores. So everything is planned for the longer trip. As no guard rails, as it would be so easy to fall off even if there were there, the priority is to be clipped on so I cannot fall off.

 

[Resolution]

, .... no guard rails would scare the absolute crap out of me out there.. ..

Me too. No guard rails is very good reason for a furling genoa.
Is the cockpit self-draining? OP mentioned having a deep cockpit and it occurred to me to wonder about the drains. Small boat out in big seas is likely to ship the odd green wave.
Peter

 

[Daydream believer]

When you buy the wind vane ( you do need one) do not buy a heavy one. I have the aeries lift up model & even on a 31 ft boat it is a bit too heavy.
I would not go for hydrovane because I would question that a small boat is directionally stable enough under rudder alone for the vane to correct it quickly enough( I know others will disagree, but I would want to hear from those with same sized boats). I would suggest that you look for a servo pendulum design. We know they work on small boats

 

[dom]

Don't want to be a stick in the mud here, but I'd say STOP!

We're talking about a little 24 'er here with a 19' LWL, 8' beam, and 4' draft, and SAD of 12.2.

All those water and fuel containers are good as they go. And who can argue with a furling genny? Aside from the fact that it introduces yet more weight, this time aloft; even more if you leave it furled while setting an occasionally necessary inner jib.

Lob in a heavy windvane above the pushpit (unnecessary IMHO if you're heading down French Coast to see if you like offshore sailing), radar reflector, and while you're at it a liferaft, (dinghy?) plus other sailing paraphernalia.

The common denominator is weight: implacable enemy of stability, and which might turn this little fallow deer into a baby bison!

I'd personally ask a boat designer for some friendly advice before spending loadsa dosh :ambivalence:

 

[steveeasy]

Thanks guys, solar now on the shopping list, although no idea where to mount it as yet.

Windvane _ agreed but may be beyond me for the next couple of years as it looks like £3k to get and fit, which is beyond my budget atm.

Hi PhilM,
Sounds a great plan. as far as windvane is concerned there are much cheaper options. Have you considered a Haslar windvane. ive got something sitting in my workshop. ill PM you later if you like.

Steveeasy

 

[Yellow Ballad]

There is also a Navik on eBay for £300 atm.

 

[PhillM]

Is the cockpit self-draining?
Peter

Yes, self draining and tested as part of the refit. Thanks for your advice. I may test them again, just to be on the self side.

 

[doug748]

I shall be measuring up for Solar next weekend. Worst case I will get a semi-flex panel and lie it in the cockpit in good weather. Does that sound OK or do I really need a permanent mount?

I am considering extra battery capacity. Don't I have to buy matched batteries (age / make / model) for a bank? If I do that is going to double the cost as well as me needing to upgrade the charger. This could come in at £350, which may make other things less affordable. ..

Roller reefing - OK yes, you talked me into it. It is time to take that plunge. I am meeting the rigger next week for a rig check and this is now top of the agenda...

Listening to comments above, it does look like a windvane should be on my shopping list. There do not appear to be many 2nd hand about atm so I'm looking a new Seafeather as they seem to have a good reputation, good price (about £2K) and best of all availability in time to learn how to use it properly. Any one had any experience with this or similar products?
..
Thanks!

Roller reefing also frees up a lot of space in the boat and can mean no more wet sails below. I would do it, big priority.

Solar panels are cheap and easy so that is worth doing. I fixed a socket in a cockpit cubby hole and just used the panel as and when, for the first season, it was ok. You don't need anything huge - Small boat, Small batteries, Small requirements = Small panel. It sounds like you like to conserve power so that is all good.

It seems your engine charging is very efficient, I would not fit extra batteries, heavy bulky things for a small boat and the more you fit the more you have to ramp up charging regimes.
This is particularly so if you manage to sort a wind vane gear. The LED masthead light solves the only other remaining problem.

Plus, as mentioned, I bet you will do more motoring than you imagine.

 

[zoidberg]

You might care to have a peek at the video I reposted here - http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?518411-Tara-Tari-and-Capucine

 

[dom]

Remember, French babies commence life by bailing out after their prospective mothers' waters break, then -- thinking it's a highline -- winch themselves out by their umbilical cords

 

[GHA]

It seems your engine charging is very efficient,

Unfortunately there no such thing ...... If you want to get to full charge with lead acid anyway, still usually about 4 hours plus from 80% even plugged into a power station. Which is why solar is so handy, stuff loads in from the engine when the batteries will accept plenty then let solar take over.