UK Boat Price Crash......

[roblpm]

So I am depressed. Sold my last boat about 3 years ago pre divorce at exactly the wrong time.

Now with Brexit and Covid prices seem to have gone crazy.

An example. 2 Starlight 35s on sale on Yachtmarket. UK one listed at £65k. Netherlands one listed at £51k. No coincidence I think. Same price more or less with import VAT. I think UK price 2 years ago £50k.
AWBs the same 20% differential between continental Europe and UK.

So..... predictions please...... and I will return to this thread in 18 months time when I am ready to buy.
Has my £50k budget for a 37 footer (not decided yet quite what) now changed from 50k to 65k?

Should I leave the country and buy in the USA? (I am also US citizen)
Should I leave the country and buy in the EU (aha I forgot I am a UK citizen and this is no use)

I was completely wrong in 2004 about a house price crash. I didn't realise that in the impending financial crisis of 2008 which I saw coming the UK government would prioritise house prices against everything else. Ditto Covid. Does the UK curse of ever rising house prices now apply to boats too?

 

[Just_sayin']

Strange thread title given the post content ?

 

[lustyd]

Has my £50k budget for a 37 footer (not decided yet quite what) now changed from 50k to 65k?

If you want a half descent one, yes. In fact, I suspect probably higher than that given the complete lack of boats on the market for over a year. That said, the ones remaining on the market don't seem to be selling so maybe there's a new era of AWB "project boats" starting at £50k

 

[mrming]

My budget was half yours for a smaller (32’) boat. I worked around the crazy market by buying a basically sound but slightly tatty boat and paying a yard to work on it. Budget was £25k, bought a boat for £13k. Around £20k total spend got it home. Estimate I will spend another £5k by the time the cosmetic bits on deck are tarted up and some engine maintenance has been caught up on. Crucially the interior was in very good nick and the electronics and sails are very new. Don’t think I would have gone for it otherwise.

 

[Refueler]

Its same with 2nd hand cars over here .... average increase over last 6 months is 30 - 40% against last years.

My Jaguar Brooklands will have to wait !!

 

[Scapa86]

If you want a half descent one, yes. In fact, I suspect probably higher than that given the complete lack of boats on the market for over a year. That said, the ones remaining on the market don't seem to be selling so maybe there's a new era of AWB "project boats" starting at £50k

absolute nonsense to suggest you need at least 65k to buy a “half decent” 37 foot seaworthy sailing boat. Tonnes of deals to be had, just not on the websites of Michael Schmidt etc.

 

[laika]

I was completely wrong in 2004 about a house price crash. I didn't realise that in the impending financial crisis of 2008 which I saw coming the UK government would prioritise house prices against everything else. Ditto Covid. Does the UK curse of ever rising house prices now apply to boats too?

As someone who never bought a house I feel your pain in discovering that the government is going to interfere with the free market (and indeed the greater good of affordable housing) to buy off the votes of the majority who are owner-occupiers. However the majority of voters are not boat owners so keeping the boat market buoyant is not a government priority. In 2 years (a) people will be able to head off to charters in places where the weather doesn't suck as badly as it did for our "August" cruise and (b) everyone who's experienced full marinas and restaurants where they've got either no staff or no food will have decided that UK boating is no fun. So I'll go with "crash". Plus I'm thinking about downsizing so I predict any crash will happen just before I sell...

 

[Bouba]

My Jaguar Brooklands will have to wait !!

Is that the one with the blower on the front?

 

[Refueler]

Is that the one with the blower on the front?

Dunno what you are referring to - but its the Supercharged version that used the S jags base ........ the one that was in Jag showrooms here a few years back was reworked to near 600hp .. special order and given the tag "Brooklands" based on its BRG colour ... Green.

 

[roblpm]

Its same with 2nd hand cars over here .... average increase over last 6 months is 30 - 40% against last years.

My Jaguar Brooklands will have to wait !!

Where is over here?

 

[roblpm]

absolute nonsense to suggest you need at least 65k to buy a “half decent” 37 foot seaworthy sailing boat. Tonnes of deals to be had, just not on the websites of Michael Schmidt etc.

OK perfect. Links? And has to appeal to my other half as a liveaboard...... So a 1977 Rival is not going to cut it.....

 

[roblpm]

As someone who never bought a house I feel your pain in discovering that the government is going to interfere with the free market (and indeed the greater good of affordable housing) to buy off the votes of the majority who are owner-occupiers. However the majority of voters are not boat owners so keeping the boat market buoyant is not a government priority. In 2 years (a) people will be able to head off to charters in places where the weather doesn't suck as badly as it did for our "August" cruise and (b) everyone who's experienced full marinas and restaurants where they've got either no staff or no food will have decided that UK boating is no fun. So I'll go with "crash". Plus I'm thinking about downsizing so I predict any crash will happen just before I sell...

I hope you are right. I am always wrong. What are you selling?!

 

[lustyd]

absolute nonsense to suggest you need at least 65k to buy a “half decent” 37 foot seaworthy sailing boat. Tonnes of deals to be had, just not on the websites of Michael Schmidt etc.

No idea who Michael Schmidt is, but Apolloduck has one Bavara at that size and price range which looks in acceptable condition but that needs an electronics package so will ultimately be a £60k boat. That's assuming it's not gone by morning for over the asking price...

 

[Denek]

So I am depressed. Sold my last boat about 3 years ago pre divorce at exactly the wrong time.

Now with Brexit and Covid prices seem to have gone crazy.

An example. 2 Starlight 35s on sale on Yachtmarket. UK one listed at £65k. Netherlands one listed at £51k. No coincidence I think. Same price more or less with import VAT. I think UK price 2 years ago £50k.
AWBs the same 20% differential between continental Europe and UK.

So..... predictions please...... and I will return to this thread in 18 months time when I am ready to buy.
Has my £50k budget for a 37 footer (not decided yet quite what) now changed from 50k to 65k?

Should I leave the country and buy in the USA? (I am also US citizen)
Should I leave the country and buy in the EU (aha I forgot I am a UK citizen and this is no use)

I was completely wrong in 2004 about a house price crash. I didn't realise that in the impending financial crisis of 2008 which I saw coming the UK government would prioritise house prices against everything else. Ditto Covid. Does the UK curse of ever rising house prices now apply to boats too?

I lived in the USA for three years and considered buying a boat there and bringing it back. although they were cheaper there once the costs of import and getting it to EU ( we were still in at the time) standards brought the price up to around the same. That’s not including any costs to get it here. You may be able to find a European boat there if the owner decides to sell after crossing the pond. Not sure how that pans out. I suspect that UK prices may drop again once travel abroad starts to be allowed and people who have brought boats because they have had to holiday in the UK decide to sell them. I did meet one couple this year who had a boat in Europe and because they could not get to it brought another here in the UK. Strange times.

 

[roblpm]

I lived in the USA for three years and considered buying a boat there and bringing it back. although they were cheaper there once the costs of import and getting it to EU ( we were still in at the time) standards brought the price up to around the same. That’s not including any costs to get it here. You may be able to find a European boat there if the owner decides to sell after crossing the pond. Not sure how that pans out. I suspect that UK prices may drop again once travel abroad starts to be allowed and people who have brought boats because they have had to holiday in the UK decide to sell them. I did meet one couple this year who had a boat in Europe and because they could not get to it brought another here in the UK. Strange times.

If I bought a boat in the USA I think I would never bring it to the uk. I hope you are right about the travel abroad. I will wait and see!

 

[Momac]

..... everyone who's experienced full marinas and restaurants where they've got either no staff or no food will have decided that UK boating is no fun.

Had our main hols in July and fluked the best fortnight of the year with good weather generally and included the heat wave (comfortable , never too hot on the coast)
Ate out little, in part due to wife reluctant to sit indoors in restaurants and in part due to good restaurants booked up. So we spent less than usual. In fact something of a bargain price holiday, compared to what people are paying to stay in a cottage or caravan, if we just count diesel and moorings.
We were able to get a pontoon berths with no issues . No different to any other year really.
Overall I loved it and needed it after 2020 boating hols were disrupted by work demands and a wash out with the weather.

No doubt there will be some new to boating who will have realised it's not what they thought it would be and will be anxious to sell up and return to their old ways .

 

[Tranona]

In my view there won't be a price crash for a number of reasons. The most important is that there has been a permanent reduction in supply because the EU supply of used boats is effectively shut off. This follows several years of a steady flow of boats from the UK to the EU and low sales of new boats in the UK. This is particularly true in the 30-40' size range. New boat sales will continue to be low partly because of rising real prices and partly because the big builders are offering fewer boats in this size range that are attractive to UK buyers for use in the UK. You can see this in the prices asked for the few late model (2010 onwards) boats that have come on the market. The last 3 Bav 33s like mine (5 or so years old) have sold for only 15% less than they were new. Another one, a year older and similar, but not quite as good spec has an asking price just10% less than I paid for mine 6 years ago.

I do not see this changing - boats like this sell almost instantly. One immediate effect is that prices of older boats have also risen, just as you have experienced. 20 year old Bav 32s are asking 15- 20% more than they were 5 years ago. Add to this much older boats are dropping out of the market as the cost of running them rises, so anything post 1990 will only go up in price. The big question for the next year or two is inflation. All the signs are that we are in for an inflationary spiral world wide driven by shortages of capacity and cheap money as the world economy gets going again. So monetary prices will probably rise, certainly not fall.

The oldies amongst us have been here before - the real oldies like me more than once. Individuals can only "beat" this when buying consumer products through luck as we are price takers. No point in trying to think too far ahead. You are not in a position to buy now to "beat" future price rises. You can only try to make the best decision in the circumstances of the time when you are in a position to buy. Waste of time worrying about it of feeling you are being cheated somehow.

 

[roblpm]

In my view there won't be a price crash for a number of reasons. The most important is that there has been a permanent reduction in supply because the EU supply of used boats is effectively shut off. This follows several years of a steady flow of boats from the UK to the EU and low sales of new boats in the UK. This is particularly true in the 30-40' size range. New boat sales will continue to be low partly because of rising real prices and partly because the big builders are offering fewer boats in this size range that are attractive to UK buyers for use in the UK. You can see this in the prices asked for the few late model (2010 onwards) boats that have come on the market. The last 3 Bav 33s like mine (5 or so years old) have sold for only 15% less than they were new. Another one, a year older and similar, but not quite as good spec has an asking price just10% less than I paid for mine 6 years ago.

I do not see this changing - boats like this sell almost instantly. One immediate effect is that prices of older boats have also risen, just as you have experienced. 20 year old Bav 32s are asking 15- 20% more than they were 5 years ago. Add to this much older boats are dropping out of the market as the cost of running them rises, so anything post 1990 will only go up in price. The big question for the next year or two is inflation. All the signs are that we are in for an inflationary spiral world wide driven by shortages of capacity and cheap money as the world economy gets going again. So monetary prices will probably rise, certainly not fall.

The oldies amongst us have been here before - the real oldies like me more than once. Individuals can only "beat" this when buying consumer products through luck as we are price takers. No point in trying to think too far ahead. You are not in a position to buy now to "beat" future price rises. You can only try to make the best decision in the circumstances of the time when you are in a position to buy. Waste of time worrying about it of feeling you are being cheated somehow.

Ugh. Very sensible. Maybe you could publish a bavaria price index. RPI. CPI. BPI. Would be very interesting.

 

[coopec]

I think there will be a used boat price crash as younger people aren't interested in sailing. Why would you buy a used yacht to go sailing when you can download an "app" onto your iPad and circumnavigate the globe?

Why Aren't Millennials Buying Boats?

 

[oldgit]

Motorboats.
A sea change for one reason or other in our boat club, a pronounced baby boomer age bulge, flattening out due to a number of reasons.
At a wild guess something like 25% + of the boats on our club moorings have been sold on or swapped in last 18 months . It is still going on.
Covid was probably responsible for much of this and not just for the most obvious reason.
Many boats having failed to be used for many seasons due to owners declining health simply became a burden and provoked a call to a broker. Some skippers having done it all decided to call it quits. A few realising that life was terminal , traded up and bought the boat of their dreams......... hang the expence.
Some boats simply changed hands within the club.
Without exception all the boats put up for sale, prices ranging from a few grand up to 150K , sold very quickly, some within days.
Doubt any of skippers buying or selling boats are less than middle aged.
A small group in the club galley last night , one couple was selling both their boat and apartment abroad and quitting boating altogether. Another couple at our table, had , due to state of the market bought another boat before selling the old one. The new boat is coming back from EU as nothing on the UK market.
They had received that afternoon a phone call from a broker , an offer had been received on his "old" boat, which was accepted , it had been on the market for around a week.