Two New Gludy Videos

[FunkyMonkey]

I have found this thread incredibly interesting, IMO I agree with jfm on the load aspect of the impeller, as mentioned the the axial compression is a fundamental part of the impellers design and efficiency and small differences in the tolerance can alter the pumps characteristics.

The product looks to be acting as a thrust bearing on the outer housing removing the friction leading to failure of the impeller under dry run conditions,I'd say Stuart has hit the nail on the head with his description of the blocks mass removing the heat from the opposing side. As for the increase in life expectancy from fitting this could it be that 90% of the heat generated causing the impeller to fail could come from the outer face where the heat cannot be dissipated ! Just a thought.

The discussion now goes on to the efficiency of the pump with this fitted? If it can be proven that pump performance remains the same then it's a decent product!

Perhaps the whole pump needs to be redesigned by forum members instead !

Great reading.

 

[alexp]

Speedseal life

The offer made on the previous contact is very interesting and we will be very happy to take it up - just let me know the pump model. You will have gathered that I prefer to rely on practical outcomes.

When I am back after the holiday I will check with the engineers and post confirmation, but my recollection is that all the measurements of flow and pressure were part of the tests carried out by the engine and pump manufacturers involved over the many months of work before we launched. These followed our own series of tests after the design stage.

In my earlier responses I had wrongly assumed that everyone recognises that organisations will not make huge investments in taking a product to market, before exhaustive design and proving work has been completed. The engine and pump manufacturers are equally cautious and have extensive facilities for carrying out their own tests on every aspect and application of a product. Their involvement in this gave us added confidence before launch, and before we made any claims about performance.

These exchanges have already been most helpful in suggesting future information for our website - and we are working on it. My thanks go to all. Alex

 

[MapisM]

The offer made on the previous contact is very interesting and we will be very happy to take it up - just let me know the pump model.

I will also be happy to arrange such test and publish the results.
Oh, and course you will be very welcome to join me. The only caveat is that I'm located in Italy and I won't be able to put the boat back in the water before the end of Apr - beginning of May.
You can find all the details of the pump we're talking about in this webpage.
Btw, a very expert mechanic, who builds upgrade parts for these engines in the US, told me that the pump is actually made by Jabsco, but the only references I have are the original ones from Mercruiser, as shown in the previous webpage.

 

[Gludy]

I am delighted with the way this thread has developed.

 

[alexp]

Speedseal life

Thanks for your generous offer of a visit to Italy - sounds very appealing, but when I looked at the pump drawing it seems clear that access to the impeller is by separating formed parts, not using an end cover plate. It appears not to be a Jabsco pump, but looks as though it could be a nightmare for a dark night on a lee shore!

If that is the pump concerned I'm afraid we cannot help, but I will certainly check the pressure tests we have used and let you know. Alex

 

[Nick_H]

In my earlier responses I had wrongly assumed that everyone recognises that organisations will not make huge investments in taking a product to market, before exhaustive design and proving work has been completed.

Well in my experience the organisations making the investment also want to understand why their product works, so it wasn't unreasonable to think you might know ....

 

[stuartw]

In my earlier responses I had wrongly assumed that everyone recognises that organisations will not make huge investments in taking a product to market, before exhaustive design and proving work has been completed. The engine and pump manufacturers are equally cautious and have extensive facilities for carrying out their own tests on every aspect and application of a product. Alex

I am still not sure you fully understand how product development works. From a man in a garden shed, to the biggest companies, a large slice of development costs are done at the conceptual stage, where ideas are fabricated and tested to see if the concept works. This continues with several iterations, untill the design fulfills the original criteria. Many times an idea could be junked for a whole variety of reasons, and this may well be after some hefty expenditure. The "taking to market phase" may well alter the design to accomodate things like colour, materials, pricing etc.

It is true to say that many a good product, is the result of an inspired idea. But that has to be tried and tested before any product costs can arrived at, in order a selling price can be achieved. Mr Dyson spent a small fortune long before his idea came to fruition. Along the way, most designers understand the principals. Because if you do not, then there are many blind alleys waiting for you.

Companies who have badly designed products, general rely on the customer (or forums) to find the faults and initiate design changes.

Having said all that, there is a place for small scale product development, but you still have to know the principals of design.

 

[Gludy]

It does seem that in this case the tests show that it works and that in the end is the critical thing. Whilst the why is interesting it is secondary to it actually working

 

[oceanfroggie]

A couple of short videos I have just published about products that may interest any boater:-

Speedseal Life
http://www.multihulls4us.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2984

Waveblade
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7DRyi7XCWo

Links are STILL broken on mulithull forum to the impellor seal product. Sorry, but Wave blade video boring and fails to demonstrate what the product does, too much talk, talk, talk. Their own web site video sells the idea and benefits by second no 3, they show what it does and how well it does it, sold by second 15. Time is everything when promoting a product, get to the point fast.

The cliche "cutting room floor" seems absent.

 

[Gludy]

The links to the Speedseal video work fine - I just clicked on them and went straight there.

The whole point of the Waveblade video is to try and pass on the experience of visiting the stand at a show to learn what they say about the product. There was no opportunity to test it at the show so we are testing it in various situations for part 2 of the video. That is all part 2 is about - testing. How well does it work in practice? How does it work on dried out barnacles? How easy is it to use underwater etc. The part 1 video simply allowed Waveblade to get their message across and answer the natural questions

I disagree that you know what you need to know by second three on their site - the questions and points made in the video are valid.
According to your logic all points can be covered in 15 seconds and that the product is sold in that time - that is utter rubbish. Most purchasers of a product costing well over £200 want to know a lot more than can be told in 15 seconds.

What you are really saying is that there should have been no part 1 video to explain the background and the claims - that IMHO is absurd. You cannot please everyone all the time

 

[stuartw]

Links are STILL broken on mulithull forum to the impellor seal product. Sorry, but Wave blade video boring and fails to demonstrate what the product does, too much talk, talk, talk. Their own web site video sells the idea and benefits by second no 3, they show what it does and how well it does it, sold by second 15. Time is everything when promoting a product, get to the point fast.

The cliche "cutting room floor" seems absent.

As much as it pains me to say this, I totally agree with Gludy. This thread is about an idea. How it is conveyed is totally irrelevant? We are not talking about a promotional video that could go on prime time TV.

Methinks you've been tucking into too many sour grapes over Xmas

 

[alexp]

I am still not sure you fully understand how product development works. From a man in a garden shed, to the biggest companies, a large slice of development costs are done at the conceptual stage, where ideas are fabricated and tested to see if the concept works. This continues with several iterations, untill the design fulfills the original criteria. Many times an idea could be junked for a whole variety of reasons, and this may well be after some hefty expenditure. The "taking to market phase" may well alter the design to accomodate things like colour, materials, pricing etc.

It is true to say that many a good product, is the result of an inspired idea. But that has to be tried and tested before any product costs can arrived at, in order a selling price can be achieved. Mr Dyson spent a small fortune long before his idea came to fruition. Along the way, most designers understand the principals. Because if you do not, then there are many blind alleys waiting for you.

Companies who have badly designed products, general rely on the customer (or forums) to find the faults and initiate design changes.

Having said all that, there is a place for small scale product development, but you still have to know the principals of design.

Stuart

I hope it will give some reassurance to mention that I was responsible for product development and marketing mass market products for 35 years in two of the top twenty multinational companies in the world, which is why we carried out such a protracted cycle of design and testing, and then got manufacturers and the UK and US military involved in their own tests before we went to market.

 

[Gludy]

Alex - did the military test and approve the product?

 

[alexp]

some UK sections have tested and are using the product, other extended tests are still ongoing

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Agreed gigm that removing friction on one of the faces is 50% of the job done. I'd consider fitting them for that reason alone, for carefull only-wet running

But they claim dry running miracles and it is hard to see, without furhter exlanation from them, why that is so. It is implausible that a dry run impeller mashes itself in 2.5mins, but if you remove the friction from just one face the other face will last 10x10mins. Something doesn't ring true. And then when we get explanations that the load has "migrated" to the low friction surface (which is simply nonsense) it looks fishier still. So it would be nice to get an explanation

I've come into this thread late but here's my tuppence worth anyway. Like you I cant see how putting a slip bearing at one end of the impellor can make such a substantial difference to the dry running life of the impellor although I'm prepared to believe that it makes a small difference. A few tests on Yanmar engines in no way justifies the claims made in the video or on the Speedseal website. I'd want to see a whole range of test data across a number of different manufacturers' engines.
I dont altogether believe the statements either about the ends of the impellor experiencing the most friction. If that were the case, then you wouldn't see failure modes such as the typical failure mode shown in Hurricane's photo. Quite clearly, the vanes have sheared straight across which suggests to me that that the vanes have failed principally because of friction between the ends of the vanes and the pump chamber rather than because of friction between the sides of the vanes and the end plates. If it were the latter, you'd see the vanes breaking off on their corners.
I'd would also want to know about the wear life of the slip bearing itself. What happens to the efficiency of the impellor when that wears? Is there a chance that the PTFE section breaks up? I notice that Speedseal sell spare bearing sets; how many hours do they expect the bearing set to last?
Having said all that, the price of the Speedseal Life is relatively low so I'm going to buy a couple of sets myself but I think one of the main benefits is still the Speedseal plate itself. Space around the impellor housing on my engines is tight so anything that makes it easier to remove the end plate is worth having

 

[Gludy]

So which Speedseal will you buy - the plain one or the one with the bearing?

In dealing with Speedseal on the video matter what I found was a direct, open and honest approach and I still accept their practical tests and so would really still suggest the bearing version.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

So which Speedseal will you buy - the plain one or the one with the bearing?

In dealing with Speedseal on the video matter what I found was a direct, open and honest approach and I still accept their practical tests and so would really still suggest the bearing version.

Hi Paul. I would like to buy the Speedseal Life (the one with the bearing) providing they do the right size for my engines. I have some reservations but its cheap enough to throw away if it doesn't do what it says on the tin

 

[Gludy]

Good - I think you may be converted.

 

[alexp]

Speedseal life

Hi Mike

Just give us contact details and any information on the engine and pump model to -safety@speedseal.com

Thanks
Alex

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Hi Mike

Just give us contact details and any information on the engine and pump model to -safety@speedseal.com

Thanks
Alex

Alex I sent an e-mail to this address several days ago. Pls check your inbox