Twin Grooved roller reefing.

[Joe_Cole]

It may be a daft question but.......

I was putting my sails on over the weekend and was reminded that my roller reefing has twin grooves. Why? (There's only one halliard.)

It occurs to me that I could use my old genoa in the second groove when going downwind, (i.e have two genoas out) but whether or not that will be any better than using the spinnaker I don't know. Worth a try I suppose.

Joe

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[Parashandy]

Early Plastimo spars had twin grooves and were supplied with slides to fit in the second groove before hoisting the second sail.

Those slides were designed for the hanks of the second sail to be attached to them.

Clear as mud, eh?

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[Sybarite]

The French Amel boats use twin grooves with two genoas up for down-wind sailing. They also furl together if you need to quickly reduce sail area.

John

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[Twister_Ken]

Blame the racers

Twin grooves are for racers. When the time comes to change to a bigger or smaller headsail, the fresh sail is hoisted while the old one is still up, then the old one is handed. That way the boat is not bareheaded at any time. That's also why race boats will usually have two genoa lead cars on the sheet tracks, so that new sheets can be lead during a sail change.

Nowadays, when almost every cruisy boat has a roller furler headsail and nothing else until you get to the storm jib, the second groove is just about as useful as steak knife to a vegetarian.

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[brianhumber]

As others have said, you can use the other groove to change foresail whilst tacking or use two downwind with one poled out. You need two hoists and some spare sheets. I carry three sizes of furling geny, it means you can put the smaller ones on for higher winds. I have a tender cruiser/racer and normally change down overnight and then we do not have to roll in /reef at 2 am in morning. Smaller sail is also more efficient because it is unfurled and centre of effort is lower - less heeling.

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[tome]

Brian

I also have a twin groove foil, but I can't for the life of me remember the method we used to set one and peel the other. I seem to recall we only had one set of sheets?

I'd be glad if you could enlighten me.

Thanks
Tom

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[Twister_Ken]

One sheet change

Tom,

Usually -

Tack so that the occupied groove is to leeward.
Hoist new sail in windward groove.
Take lazy sheet off old sail, attach to new.
Tack
Hand old sail
Remove windward sheet from old sail and attach to new.

That's the 'one sheet' way of doing it. Bit embarrassing if you need to change up or down in the middle of a tacking duel tho'.

PS - the really clever trick was doing all this several times in a race and not ending up with the halyards wrapped around each other. Especially if there were a few kite hoists and drops mixed in there as well. Thank heavens I was never a foredeck hand!

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[airbubble]

Re: Not so much a daft Q...

But has ANY of the replyers EVER tried what he's discribing??

Guys (blondes, no doubt, &girlies), what do you attach the top of the foresail to ?
I do not know the exact name for it, (sorry, dutch) but it is something all around the furling grooves that allows the grooves and foresail to rotate, whilst not twisting the halyard around the forestay.

How in G's name do you think you can lower that bearing/block over an unfurled sail ????

The sailor who placed the hanks in the second groove came closest to a possible answer, but again, you'd have to take your genua down and out of its groove before hoisting the stormjib, if you start furling the genua in, the second grovve is no longer available.

In my opinion, the possibility to fly twin poled out headsails is the only reason (abeit a technical one), but there you would have to use an extra halyard as the first one is occupied by the std genua.


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[StugeronSteve]

It may be a daft answer but i thought it was for setting the main on when sailing backwards.

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[Joe_Cole]

Re: Not so much a daft Q...

Paul,

For what it's worth Plastimo call the thingy at the top of the foil a "Halyard Swivel". Technical eh?!!

I've only got one halyard I could use so I was thinking of using that to take up the first genoa together with a block which would be used for a second halyard for genoa number two. I don't know if it will work but I'll try it out sometime this summer. I suspect that it will end up in a bit of a tangle if I try to reef, but if I need to do that then I suppose I might just as well take the second genoa down.

I've just checked and the two Genoas will have about the same area as my spinnaker so I don't know if I will gain anything....I'm beginning to have second thoughts about all this!

Joe

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[Twister_Ken]

\'Scuse I, Mr or Ms Bubble

Yes, I know there's a big twirly thing at the top and one at the bottom as well, but you take those off when you convert from cruisy to racy mode. Been there, done it, many many times.

PS please do not drop the allen screws over the bow when you take them out of the curlers because owners tend to get a bit scathing about that sort of thing.

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[Twister_Ken]

Twin headsails

If you seriously want to sail downwind with twin headsails, the easiest way is to get a sailmaker to put a Spectra or Dyneema luff rope into the second genny, then hoist it loose luffed on a spinny halyard. It doesn't matter much if there is a gap twixt the two headsails.

Or, if you've got an old genny with piston hanks, rig a temporary second forestay using a spinny halyard to pull up a Spectra or Dyneema line.

Twins are much easier to fly than a kite, especially longer distances short handed. BTW, you don't need the main when doing this (it would only blanket one or other of the gennies), so you can lead one sheet through the spinny or whisker pole, and t'other through a block on the end of the main boom, if you're not blessed with two spinny poles. You'll need a preventer on the boom though.

Really long distance types sometimes have a long, light pole aboard which can go from clew to clew of twins to keep them spread. Never done this myself, though, only seen it in books.

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[jimi]

Twissle!

nm

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[Twister_Ken]

Re: Twissle!

That's the feller!

Danke, oh great and good Yachtiemeister

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[tome]

Re: One sheet change

Ken

Thanks for this - it brings it all back with clarity. Boat was a Swan 47 but the owner never raced her so fortunately no tacking duels. I seem to recall we used to tack then swap lazy sheets before hoisting the new sail, but I may be wrong about this.

My boat has twin genoa halyards and spinnaker halyard so lots of opportunities for a major wrap if I get this wrong.

Regards
Tom

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[MADFISH]

Tack change

Oh yes. When I was racing I have done this hundreds of times. Becomes second nature. It is safer to tack change than to do a bare headed change as the genoa that is set offers some protection to the bowman.

Now peeling spinnakers. That is lots more interesting. Every second peel the bowman has to go up the mast to clear away the crossed over halyards. That can be a bit hairy!

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[Joe_Cole]

Re: Twin headsails

Thanks Ken. My old Genoa is already set up to go onto my roller reefing, so I think I'll try it like that first.
It hadn't occured to me that using twins would be easier than the spinaker, but then anything must be easier than using a spinaker! (Most of the time I sail semi-single-handed...which tells you how much SHMBO likes pulling bits of string)
Regards

Joe

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[brianhumber]

Re: One sheet change

Agree with two geny and spinny halyards things could get a bit confused, but suggest practice on light wind smooth sea sailing day will soon get you back in the groove !

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[tome]

Re: One sheet change

Rightho Brian

Looks like one of those weekends coming up!

Cheers
Tom

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