Trailer Sailer

[Simon391088]

Hi,

I sold my Sealine mobo a couple of years ago thinking that would be it.
However now I find myself wanting to get back on the water - madness I know.

I live 2 hours away from the sea so don't actually get to use a boat that much.

My ideal boat now would be something (a sailing boat) that I could trailer to avoid the marina fees and also to tinker with it outside my house as I enjoy refitting etc.
I have plenty of room here to store it.

It needs to be big as 4-5 people need to sleep on it.

What would you recommend?

Thanks
Simon

 

[Tranona]

The need to sleep 4-5 people and trailer sailing are almost mutually exclusive. Although you can get boats of up to 25' or so that can towed they are not really practical for taking back and forward to sail. Useful for being able to take a boat home for the winter or perhaps trailing somewhere different for a holiday. However you need a substantial 4X4 to tow and probably a crane to lift on and off.

Think of 20' as a practical maximum with a lift keel and an easily handled rig. many have 4 berths inside but using them is cosy - think of packing sardines. Sort of OK if 2 are small children.

Rather than focus on one or two recommendations, perhaps best to look at a few boats you think might attract you and then ask for views

 

[Skylark]

It needs to be big as 4-5 people need to sleep on it.

What would you recommend?

Thanks
Simon

I recommend that you recalibrate your needs. ? My boat is 41 ft and comfortably sleeps 3 to 4.

My first sea boat progressing from Dinghies was a Swift 18. In it’s day, it was a very capable trailer sailer. Squatting room for 2 but a lot of fun at the time. It was easy to tow and launch with a Volvo 780. Over a couple of seasons at separate locations, I twice managed to bury the rear axle in the hard sand beach. Fortunately, on both occasions a friendly farmer used his tractor to pull me out before it turned into a disaster. 4WD cars were less common in those days.

You don’t mention your budget nor what you have available as a tow vehicle. Chosen vessel keel configuration will be hugely influential upon day-sailing ability.

 

[Concerto]

There are very few trailer sailers that could accommodate 4-5 people. Without knowing your budget it is very difficult to advise. You will be looking at water ballasted boats about 26 feet long. You will need a 4x4 for towing.

The most popular range that would suit is MacGregor from the USA. Their last model was the 26M, the earlier one was the 26X and he original was the 26C. They are no longer built as production was moved from California to Florida and renamed Tartan, and production hardly restarted some years ago. There are quite a number of all MacGregor versions in the UK.

Many sailors will suggest they are not good boats, but I think the 26M would certainly suit your requirements on a number of levels. They are easy to launch and rig, also easy to recover as they specifically designed for this. They are a beginners boat, so everything is relatively simple for sailing. Also they have wheel steering which will make your transfer from power to sail a lot easier. The final bonus is they were usually fitted with a 50+hp outboard and could make 25 knots. The downside is they are more inland, river and coastal boats. This was their brochure and there are numerous youtube videos as well.
http://www.macgregor26.com/brochure/brochure_mar_2009.pdf

 

[Triassic]

The need to sleep 4-5 people and trailer sailing are almost mutually exclusive. Although you can get boats of up to 25' or so that can towed they are not really practical for taking back and forward to sail. Useful for being able to take a boat home for the winter or perhaps trailing somewhere different for a holiday. However you need a substantial 4X4 to tow and probably a crane to lift on and off.

I beg to differ. I keep my F27 trimaran at home on her trailer and tow to various launch sites whenever I go sailing. Technically she sleeps five however in the real world it's three comfortably, four if you're really good mates....... Yes you do need a 4x4 to tow sensibly but you launch straight off the trailer on a suitable slipway.

Having said that I wouldn't recommend an F27 as a first sail boat to someone coming from a Mobo, although they should be used to the speeds involved....

 

[Andibs]

My Jaguar 21 can sleep 4 but you all need to be friends. I, personally, wouldn't want to tow anything much bigger on a regular basis

Andy

 

[Seajet]

Hi,

I sold my Sealine mobo a couple of years ago thinking that would be it.
However now I find myself wanting to get back on the water - madness I know.

I live 2 hours away from the sea so don't actually get to use a boat that much.

My ideal boat now would be something (a sailing boat) that I could trailer to avoid the marina fees and also to tinker with it outside my house as I enjoy refitting etc.
I have plenty of room here to store it.

It needs to be big as 4-5 people need to sleep on it.

What would you recommend?

Thanks
Simon

The idea of trailing a cruiser - anything over 16' - home regularly to avoid marina or mooring fees is THE classic newbie fallacy.

In reality it's heart attack hassle, forget it. If marinas are too pricey get a mooring, ideally with a good helpful and friendly club.

A twin or lift keel boat will go on a half tide mooring, which is not just cheaper, they're usually a lot closer in to get to and much more sheltered both for cruiser and trips in the tender compared to deep water moorings for fin or long keelers.

 

[Triassic]

The idea of trailing a cruiser - anything over 16' - home regularly to avoid marina or mooring fees is THE classic newbie fallacy.

In reality it's heart attack hassle, forget it. If marinas are too pricey get a mooring, ideally with a good helpful and friendly club.

That's me, a complete newbie. In fact I'm so new at it I must be doing something wrong because I'm just not getting the heart attack inducing hassle...... Now worrying if my boat will still be on her mooring after the breeze picks up a bit, that would do it.......

 

[dk]

Bay Cruiser 26? Sedna 26? (New)

 

[Seajet]

That's me, a complete newbie. In fact I'm so new at it I must be doing something wrong because I'm just not getting the heart attack inducing hassle...... Now worrying if my boat will still be on her mooring after the breeze picks up a bit, that would do it.......

Well if you will insist on a sort of boat that's only really stable when upside down...

 

[Tranona]

That's me, a complete newbie. In fact I'm so new at it I must be doing something wrong because I'm just not getting the heart attack inducing hassle...... Now worrying if my boat will still be on her mooring after the breeze picks up a bit, that would do it.......

It is really not helpful to suggest such a niche boat. As you say yourself, not a beginners boat and expect you can count on the fingers and toes of one person the number of people who have actually bought one in the UK.

There are invariably exceptions to general rules but the fact that they are exceptions suggests that the general rule is robust!

 

[Triassic]

It is really not helpful to suggest such a niche boat. As you say yourself, not a beginners boat and expect you can count on the fingers and toes of one person the number of people who have actually bought one in the UK.

There are invariably exceptions to general rules but the fact that they are exceptions suggests that the general rule is robust!

Nor is it particularly helpful to tell someone that owning a trailer sailer is a beginners mistake and and will bring you nothing but hassle. As with most things in life there are compromises to be made and the secret is to make as informed a decision as you can so that you find take a path best suited to your individual needs and circumstances. The OP asked for help and advice to identify a sailing boat that he could keep at home where he had plenty of room to work on it and avoid marina fees because he knows he won't be able to use it much and all I was doing is pointing out that such things are possible and practicable, particularly as those were priorities for me.

I know I said an F27 isn't a beginners boat, and I still stand by that....but it was my first boat and to date the only boat I have owned. I did however have a background around boats so knew a few things about sailing. I wanted a boat that was all about the sailing, with enough creature comforts to be able to stay on board but they weren't the priority, and I also needed a boat that was easy to handle as I single hand a lot. I live just outside Dover but if I want to do a regatta in Plymouth I can be there in six hours, not six days. I can go to the Adriatic for a months cruise allowing two days each way. When there I can get into all the anchorages conventional yachts can't so never have a problem fighting the crowd. I can sail at five knots in three knots of wind (useful in the Med). I've got four bunks, a cooker, toilet and sink, and a heater if I need it.... You are right when you say the F27 is a niche boat because there isn't another boat on the market that comes close to what they can do, and the owners know that which is why they hold their value so well. She suits my needs perfectly.

Before this post sounds like a boast lets reveal the downside I have to put up with. An F27 as I've said is all about the sailing. She's like a big dinghy. You do need to sail her pretty much all the time. I can put her on a tiller pilot but when I did the Jester I was lucky to get a suitable weather window which allowed me to kip for a few minutes at a time as this isn't a boat that you can batten down and go below when things turn nasty. She's 19' wide so if you like Marina life it's going to be expensive. She's fragile, if you want to go on the wall in the Med anywhere then don't let a charter boat anywhere near you! Enjoy motoring? Forget it. I've a little outboard that gets me in and out of tight spaces and can push me along in a flat calm, but you're never going to motor into a decent headwind or sea, but then why would you want to..... I'd shorten sail to try and keep the speed in single figures and the wife still speaking to me. Oh and if you like cruising in company then you might be in for a lonely time, you'll spend a lot of time sitting around waiting for everybody else to arrive.
Did I mention towing? If anything is going to give you a heart attack this is it, not because it's difficult because she sits behind the car at 60mph just fine, but because you worry about every idiot on the road taking out your pride and joy.

Like I said life's a compromise. A good mate of mine has just bought a monohull so I'm going to experience the "other side" a bit this season. I'm sure one day my needs will change and a nice bit heavy monohull will be my cup of tea, but I'm not quite there yet....

 

[Seajet]

You're not selling it very well, and I cannot imagine even yourself trailing a 27' ( folding I know ) tri' very often let alone every weekend, which is the usual false assumption when people talk about trailer sailing.

My 22' boat has a lift keel but I wouldn't dream of towing her often, too heavy, too deep draught at 2', 26' mast a liability and a lot of running rigging + lights, VHF & radar cables all to sort out; much better to have the boat set up on a very nice sheltered mooring with lots of facilities plus wildlife to peer at.

I've helped on a few road deliveries of Andersons and other boats around this size and everyone is very glad when it's over.

There's the other point that any lift keeler trailed home for the winter and left on the trailer rather than somehow being hoisted on trestles or a cradle will suffer the keel plate being inaccessible to maintain.

 

[Triassic]

Sounds like your Anderson 22 isn't set up to be a trailer sailer then is it?

The F27 however was designed with that specifically in mind.

It weighs 1,500kg all up, plus the trailer so just over 2T behind the car. I use an old Landcruiser which I find perfect but other makes are available.
The mast is 37' long but takes about 5 minutes to put up. The only stay I have to connect is the forestay. Once up I have to connect one cable which is the tricolour and steaming light, the VHF whip ariel is on the pushpit. We've gone from arriving at the launch point to sailing away in under 30 minutes, but we like to allow an hour to avoid rushing anything.
She floats in 14" of water, but you need about 3' to get her off the trailer, not to hard to find in the tidal waters around the UK. The Med is the only place I've ever had to crane her in, which incidentally is a doddle. I have four strops that shackle onto lifting eyes permanently installed in the cabin top, just hook up to the crane and go. Once the operator saw how easy it was they halved their original fee.....

Every weekend? You're forgetting that one of the reasons the OP was looking at a trailer sailer was because they didn't think they would be able to use her very often. I'm inclined to agree that if I was out every weekend then it might become a bit of a chore to rig and unrig her each time, except I then remember that I often do sail her on successive weekends, except on one weekend it will be in Kent, the next in the Solent, and perhaps the weekend after that in Croatia.......

We're not in competition here, I'm sure there is something your Anderson 22 does better than my F27, it's just I'm not familiar enough with your boat to know what it is.

 

[Tranona]

Nor is it particularly helpful to tell someone that owning a trailer sailer is a beginners mistake and and will bring you nothing but hassle. As with most things in life there are compromises to be made and the secret is to make as informed a decision as you can so that you find take a path best suited to your individual needs and circumstances. The OP asked for help and advice to identify a sailing boat that he could keep at home where he had plenty of room to work on it and avoid marina fees because he knows he won't be able to use it much and all I was doing is pointing out that such things are possible and practicable, particularly as those were priorities for me.

I know I said an F27 isn't a beginners boat, and I still stand by that....but it was my first boat and to date the only boat I have owned. I did however have a background around boats so knew a few things about sailing. I wanted a boat that was all about the sailing, with enough creature comforts to be able to stay on board but they weren't the priority, and I also needed a boat that was easy to handle as I single hand a lot. I live just outside Dover but if I want to do a regatta in Plymouth I can be there in six hours, not six days. I can go to the Adriatic for a months cruise allowing two days each way. When there I can get into all the anchorages conventional yachts can't so never have a problem fighting the crowd. I can sail at five knots in three knots of wind (useful in the Med). I've got four bunks, a cooker, toilet and sink, and a heater if I need it.... You are right when you say the F27 is a niche boat because there isn't another boat on the market that comes close to what they can do, and the owners know that which is why they hold their value so well. She suits my needs perfectly.

Before this post sounds like a boast lets reveal the downside I have to put up with. An F27 as I've said is all about the sailing. She's like a big dinghy. You do need to sail her pretty much all the time. I can put her on a tiller pilot but when I did the Jester I was lucky to get a suitable weather window which allowed me to kip for a few minutes at a time as this isn't a boat that you can batten down and go below when things turn nasty. She's 19' wide so if you like Marina life it's going to be expensive. She's fragile, if you want to go on the wall in the Med anywhere then don't let a charter boat anywhere near you! Enjoy motoring? Forget it. I've a little outboard that gets me in and out of tight spaces and can push me along in a flat calm, but you're never going to motor into a decent headwind or sea, but then why would you want to..... I'd shorten sail to try and keep the speed in single figures and the wife still speaking to me. Oh and if you like cruising in company then you might be in for a lonely time, you'll spend a lot of time sitting around waiting for everybody else to arrive.
Did I mention towing? If anything is going to give you a heart attack this is it, not because it's difficult because she sits behind the car at 60mph just fine, but because you worry about every idiot on the road taking out your pride and joy.

Like I said life's a compromise. A good mate of mine has just bought a monohull so I'm going to experience the "other side" a bit this season. I'm sure one day my needs will change and a nice bit heavy monohull will be my cup of tea, but I'm not quite there yet....

I am afraid everything you say confirms that the boat is not a suitable type for the OP given what he requires, although I could of course be wrong and he may fall in love with it!

The fact remains that trailing a boat big enough to sleep 4 people for regular trips in the UK is for most people a non starter. Of course there are some who do it, but the cost of a tow vehicle, the lack of good launching places, the amount of work involved in rigging, the hassle of towing on our crowded roads etc etc all count against it.

 

[Triassic]

Well if you will insist on a sort of boat that's only really stable when upside down...

Oh, and while we're taking cheap shots at each other may I remind you that once inverted she makes an excellent liferaft, and what goes one way can go back again. An Anderson 22 however makes an excellent anchor and is much harder to recover.......assuming you'd want to.

 

[Triassic]

I am afraid everything you say confirms that the boat is not a suitable type for the OP given what he requires, although I could of course be wrong and he may fall in love with it!

The fact remains that trailing a boat big enough to sleep 4 people for regular trips in the UK is for most people a non starter. Of course there are some who do it, but the cost of a tow vehicle, the lack of good launching places, the amount of work involved in rigging, the hassle of towing on our crowded roads etc etc all count against it.

I'm not trying to sell the OP an F27, I said right at the beginning I didn't think it suitable and as you say much of what I have said confirms that. I'm just trying to point out that trailer sailers do suit some situations, and present some of the reasons why.

 

[Seajet]

I have never regarded the Anderson 22 as a viable trailer sailer and if I get enquiries on those lines I always say so.

The things she does better are beating into heavy weather, and if inverted there's 42% ballast, 4'6" out on the keel to bring her back up, a knock-down could IMO only be induced by wave rather than wind action.

I know your tri goes like a scalded cat in medium conditions, but it seems stretching things to call her a trailer sailer; there's one, or a boat very similar at my club ( I'll check on Friday ) and that seems a big boat to handle once she's ashore.

 

[PeteCooper]

I sail a very light 18 footer. Would I trailer sail? Never - it would take too long and cut down my sailing time.

 

[TSB240]

Oh, and while we're taking cheap shots at each other may I remind you that once inverted she makes an excellent liferaft, and what goes one way can go back again. An Anderson 22 however makes an excellent anchor and is much harder to recover.......assuming you'd want to.

For Triassic

Don't feed the troll!

Andy has a record of putting down trailable tri owners. He used the same line and more with Angus and had no idea of the sea miles and the conditions that Angus covered in his Tri.


To the OP
Andy has his opinion regarding trailer sailing but does admits his craft is not set up for it and is just lifted in and out each year onto high trestles by a travelling crane.

We have had real life experience of a trailable lift keel yacht that is both larger than an Anderson 22 and has much more living room but not enough for cruising in company for any length of time with a crew of more than 2 adults and 2 children. I still find that a problem with a 30 foot 6 berth boat!

We enjoyed occasional relocation to alternative sailing venues and could be happily making our way afloat with the mast rigged within a similar time as rigging a Scorpion sailing dinghy ready for Open meetings.

We had the benefit of a fully equiped 4*4 with a front towbar a purpose built trailer that allowed easy launching and recover with a built in extendable tow bar.
The trailer also allowed full keel maintenance once ashore.
We used a gin pole and temporary stays to rig the mast. All standing rigging other than the forestay was left in place for trailing.

It is a matter of experience, establishing and investing in time saving equipment and routines that allows one to trailer sail more often than a couple of times a year with a larger boat.

Dont rule out any shallow draft fin or bilge keel yacht as an alternative. The american and polish water ballasted lake boats are like marmite for some but might suit your needs.

I don't see owners of larger motor boats having a problem!