Torqeedo Outboards?

[Davy_S]

I agree the responses from nestaway have been very informative. If I was buying one i would probably have gone to that company.
If however I were a competitor selling electric outboards i might feel that nestaway were getting free advertising on a very popular boating forum.
I think the moderators made the right call.

I have read all of this thread with interest, personally speaking, i thought Nestaway gave a fair and balanced opinion, plus they answered all questions asked, to the best of their ability, it is very helpful when anyone in the trade is prepared to do this knowing they may face flack from posters, at no time did they use their position to advertise, it is such a shame that someone has complained, surely the forum needs informative threads like this, i thought that was the purpose, to help others!

 

[FWB]

I have had a 1003S for many years. I bought an extra battery because of range anxiety.......I have never had to use the extra battery. I suppose it’s a bit like insurance

 

[PaulRainbow]

I think you might find it's a different Owen

[Red face]

You are correct, many apologies to the other Owen :nonchalance:

[/Red face]

 

[pvb]

I have had a 1003S for many years. I bought an extra battery because of range anxiety.......I have never had to use the extra battery. I suppose it’s a bit like insurance

It would be worth using the other battery on alternate occasions, so they both get some use.

 

[grumpy_o_g]

I agree the responses from nestaway have been very informative. If I was buying one i would probably have gone to that company.
If however I were a competitor selling electric outboards i might feel that nestaway were getting free advertising on a very popular boating forum.
I think the moderators made the right call.

There is a possibility that a competitor to a company on here could also start posting I guess but I don't see that as a problem. In a way it is free publicity for Nestaway but they haven't pushed themselves as a company in any way - the "advertising" has simply been the realisation that these are people who are honest and realistic but still enthusiastic about their products. If I was living up North I would probably still go to a competitor of theirs if it meant an easier journey to see them. Over on the Mobo forum there's a few good engine folk that have never managed to have anything but friendly conversations and I think we've had a couple of boatyards on here posting at the same time as well. I'd rather see a company name myself too but mainly I just want to see them posting here.

 

[Aeolus]

Dear Moderators,
Is it possible to edit this thread and split it into two parts - the interesting part about Torqeedo outboards and the much less interesting (albeit important) discussion about whether suppliers can provide helpful information.

 

[UMCorps]

Can I just revive this great thread and push it gently back on topic with some feedback regarding the 1003S and shear pins.

I've had a 1003S for 3 seasons now, bought second-hand so I'm not sure when it was first used or for how long. Last week, while plugging away down to my mooring, in deep water with no underwater obstructions of any kind, the pin sheared spontaneously. When I took off the prop it was clear that the pin was completely corroded. What was left of it in the drive shaft was stuck in place so firmly I had to drill it out. The two steel washers on the drive shaft were also in very bad shape.

I get why Torqeedo might want the pin to be the first point of failure in case of a grounding but if they are going to use soft metal that is prone to rust it might have been helpful to mention that in the manual and recommend annual inspection if not routine replacement. It's certainly something I'll be doing from now on. Rowing for 30 mins against the tide to get back to the slip was not much fun.

Also, just to echo a point Ian made in passing in one of his informative posts, the motor "bulb" on electric outboards makes them significantly wider and longer than their petrol equivalents. Not a problem if you're hanging the motor on a transom but putting one in a well may not be possible.

 

[nestawayboats]

Can I just revive this great thread and push it gently back on topic with some feedback regarding the 1003S and shear pins.

I've had a 1003S for 3 seasons now, bought second-hand so I'm not sure when it was first used or for how long. Last week, while plugging away down to my mooring, in deep water with no underwater obstructions of any kind, the pin sheared spontaneously. When I took off the prop it was clear that the pin was completely corroded. What was left of it in the drive shaft was stuck in place so firmly I had to drill it out. The two steel washers on the drive shaft were also in very bad shape.

I get why Torqeedo might want the pin to be the first point of failure in case of a grounding but if they are going to use soft metal that is prone to rust it might have been helpful to mention that in the manual and recommend annual inspection if not routine replacement. It's certainly something I'll be doing from now on. Rowing for 30 mins against the tide to get back to the slip was not much fun.

Also, just to echo a point Ian made in passing in one of his informative posts, the motor "bulb" on electric outboards makes them significantly wider and longer than their petrol equivalents. Not a problem if you're hanging the motor on a transom but putting one in a well may not be possible.

UM Corps specifically: If you get the serial number, which should be on the aft end of the head castings, we can tell you roughly how old it is. If more than 5 years old then you should also get the bottom shaft seal inspected/changed by a Torqeedo service agent. I'm 90% sure Torqeedo used to say 8 years but the latest edition of manual says 5.

SHEAR PINS IN GENERAL. The shear pin on the Torqeedo 1003 (specifically not the 1103 or Epropulsion Spirit) is definitely that, a weak link that's designed to break first, we have always assumed to protect the reduction gearbox (which would be far more difficult and expensive to fix if damaged). The 1003 shear pin is definitely quite easy to break. Occasionally it doesn't break properly and then spins around half broken inside the (plastic) propeller and causes damage to that. Annoying yes but you'd still much rather replace the shear pin - or the shear pin and propeller - than damage the gearbox or other internal components.

The newer-design Torqeedo 1103 and Epropulsion Spirit don't have gearboxes, because they are direct drive motors. (They still have "reverse", but this is done electronically, by changing the direction the motor spins.) With no gearbox to protect they can have much stronger shear pins, you could equally call them drive pins. And if their propellers get tangled up in rope or similar, they simply keep going until the motor can't turn any more, and stops. In this situation you then simply clear the propeller (there are several safeguards against chopping your hand off, but please also make sure the kill cord is removed and the battery disconnected before doing this) and start it up again, having returned throttle to neutral.

In summary the shear/drive pins for the new Torqeedo 1103 and Epropulsion Spirit are much stronger than the one fitted to the Torqeedo 1003. Having tried quite hard I don't think you'd break either the 1103 or Spirit shear/drive pins, in any situation I can envisage, but of course everything has a limit!

Re inspection of the drive pin, if you have a 1003 then you're starting off with one that's (deliberately) weaker than the other two, so whilst I don't think it's an official Torqeedo recommendation it probably would be a good idea to inspect it every year or so. This would also have the benefit of learning how to remove the propeller in a controlled situation, rather than in the dark with cold wet fingers situation.

And if you're reading this knowing - deep down somewhere in the back of your head that you're trying to ignore - you've hit something with your Torqeedo 1003 but "it still seems OK", it would definitely be prudent to take the propeller off and inspect inside, asap... completely undetected the shear pin may have "half-sheared" and if you don't do something about it the rest may snap, without notice, when you could really do with it not failing (and/or you may have to replace the propeller as well, if the half shear pin has been grinding around inside the plastic propeller).

That latter paragraph is of course applicable to anybody with any outboard, electric or petrol. If you know you've hit something with the propeller check the drive line is still as it should be (whether it's a shear pin, or rubber splines, or a drive spring, or whatever else is out there).

Ian, Nestaway Boats

 

[UMCorps]

Thanks for that Ian.

The S/N for my unit is 10370043. The recommended inspection period in the manual I have says 5 years so I was planning to get it done at the end of this year anyway but it would be useful to get some idea of the year of manufacture.

 

[nestawayboats]

Thanks for that Ian.

The S/N for my unit is 10370043. The recommended inspection period in the manual I have says 5 years so I was planning to get it done at the end of this year anyway but it would be useful to get some idea of the year of manufacture.

That means your 1003 was manufactured in 2010. So unless it was done by the previous owner it is past due an inspection of the seal and the service agent will probably suggest a software update. If the battery is also from 2010 the options back then were 320 or 400Wh. At nine years old it should still have 70-80% of its original capacity, depending on how it's been kept (state of charge in storage, and to a lesser extent the number of charging cycles it's been through).

To anyone else looking at secondhand Torqeedos, our advice is always: you need to know which battery you're getting (there have been several different capacities, from 320 to 916Wh, they all look identical) and how old it is before you consider buying. The 1003 goes back 10 years or so and both the battery and the motor have improved steadily throughout - new ones should really be called something like the 1003 MkIV by now. That's not to say an old one is a bad buy, you just need to know what you're getting.

Ian, Nestaway Boats

 

[UMCorps]

Hadn't realised it was that old. Got to say, its holding up pretty well. Cosmetically, although its had its share of bumps and scrapes during transport it still looks fine. It takes me around 30 mins to get from slip to mooring and back again and at least one of those trips will be against the tide, so often at or close to full throttle, but I don't think I've ever been below 50% charge at the end of the day. So maybe I have a 400Wh battery? Probably helps that my tender is very light and has a proper shape (Nautiraid 190 - can't think who might have sold it to me )

Intrigued by the mention of a software update. No idea what benefits that might bring but I can hope it might solve my main gripe about my particular Torqueedo which is that its often difficult to get the motor to stop completely. There is a centre indent on the tiller twist grip but even when the grip has clicked in place the motor will often continue to run very slowly. I find I either have to hunt to find the point at which it finally agrees to stop or, failing that, lift and replace the magnetic kill tab.

I will definitely put it in for a full service and battery check at the end of the season. Thanks again.

 

[grumpy_o_g]

Hadn't realised it was that old. Got to say, its holding up pretty well. Cosmetically, although its had its share of bumps and scrapes during transport it still looks fine. It takes me around 30 mins to get from slip to mooring and back again and at least one of those trips will be against the tide, so often at or close to full throttle, but I don't think I've ever been below 50% charge at the end of the day. So maybe I have a 400Wh battery? Probably helps that my tender is very light and has a proper shape (Nautiraid 190 - can't think who might have sold it to me )

Intrigued by the mention of a software update. No idea what benefits that might bring but I can hope it might solve my main gripe about my particular Torqueedo which is that its often difficult to get the motor to stop completely. There is a centre indent on the tiller twist grip but even when the grip has clicked in place the motor will often continue to run very slowly. I find I either have to hunt to find the point at which it finally agrees to stop or, failing that, lift and replace the magnetic kill tab.

I will definitely put it in for a full service and battery check at the end of the season. Thanks again.

I don't suppose there's any way of checking the number of charging cycles, hours of use or anything like that along with the current battery capacity compared to it's original spec? That would be really interesting to see (assuming you're OK to share it of course, which is entirely up to you). I'd forgotten just how long Torqeedo's had been around and I'm glad that one nearly 10 years old is still doing fine. 10 years is probably the sort of life I'd expect before more than cosmetic problems appear.

 

[UMCorps]

I don't suppose there's any way of checking the number of charging cycles, hours of use or anything like that along with the current battery capacity compared to it's original spec? That would be really interesting to see (assuming you're OK to share it of course, which is entirely up to you).

If I knew of a way to do that I'd be more than happy to post that info here. Minor detours aside, this thread is the most useful source of factual, real world information on the Torqeedo traveller I have seen on the web. I wish it had been here when I was researching the motors a few years back and I'm happy to contribute whatever I can to it.

Problem is, there isn't a way for end users like myself to access that information. I don't know if the engine firmware collects and stores those kind of data, let alone whether dealers and authorised service agents have the analytic software to access them if they are stored. But then, I didn't know the engine management software was updatable until yesterday so another school day is always possible for me.

 

[Bouba]

This maybe a bit old school in our high tech world but my Torqeedo battery has a sticker on it saying the year of manufacture

 

[UMCorps]

I'd forgotten that was there as I tend to keep the battery mounted permanently on the motor.

So, this is mine - confirming the battery is 400 Wh



When scanned, the data matrix code returns

000-00220_A_10380018 #F095662 1003S

Which might mean something to someone

 

[nestawayboats]

The first two numbers of the serial number tell you the year of manufacture. In this case 10 ie 2010.

Torqeedo currently seem to be recommending a five yearly service agent inspection of the motor end (mainly to change shaft seal), and an eight yearly inspection of the battery. I suppose you could call that "minimal servicing".

Epropulsion say 10 years, with the lower (motor) unit having a different type of seal. That probably means "no servicing at all within its operating life", for most customers. I say that because in ten years time electric outboards, in particular battery technology, will have moved on another significant level or two. So by then you'll almost certainly want the new one that's lighter with more power and - probably - a lot more battery capacity.

In this respect - the progress of technology - Torqeedo perhaps confuse things because the 1003 has nominally been in production (ie with the same model reference 1003) for nine years, but today's models are quite a lot different to those from 2010; they should really be calling it the "1003 Mk III" by now. Amongst other things the clamp bracket, the actual motor, and the batteries (increased capacity and charging speed) have all changed significantly. But today's 1003 still looks much the same externally, as does the new-this-year 1103 (unless you look very carefully). They've changed inside but not outside.

You do need to be aware of this if looking at secondhand 1003 motors. They're definitely not all the same. They are not necessarily a bad buy, so long as you know the age and battery capacity, and whether it's had the relevant inspections/servicing, and take that into account in your valuation.

Back to servicing, both brands have very low service requirements compared to petrol. That does not mean "zero maintenance whatsoever" though. You still need to lubricate parts such as the clamp screw threads, and the pivot joint (where the motor tilts up). And perhaps most important of all with electric outboards, spray some WD40 (or better still contact spray) into both ends of the cable connectors every couple of months. Bad connections are the cause of most electric outboard "faults" and WD40 (other brands are available etc etc, we have no affiliation) often comes to the rescue!

Ian, Nestaway Boats Ltd

 

[pvb]

The first two numbers of the serial number tell you the year of manufacture. In this case 10 ie 2010.

Torqeedo currently seem to be recommending a five yearly service agent inspection of the motor end (mainly to change shaft seal), and an eight yearly inspection of the battery.

My battery sticker has an additional symbol, a date wheel with 5 highlighted and with 2022 in the middle. I guess that means the battery should be checked in May 2022 (it was new in 2014).

 

[nestawayboats]

Yes, that's correct - the "date wheel" means it was manufactured in May 2014 and is due an inspection eight years later.

I don't think the very early 503/1003 batteries had the date wheel, but the first two digits of the serial number reveal at least the manufacturing year. There is probably a way to find out the month as well but only if you have access to the main Torqeedo database (which is probably employees only, not dealers).

Ian

 

[JohnGC]

A fairly common manufacturering date code uses week numbers. So for the example above, it might be unit 18 in week 38 of 2010.

John

 

[sailingmartin]

Hadn't realised it was that old. Got to say, its holding up pretty well. Cosmetically, although its had its share of bumps and scrapes during transport it still looks fine. It takes me around 30 mins to get from slip to mooring and back again and at least one of those trips will be against the tide, so often at or close to full throttle, but I don't think I've ever been below 50% charge at the end of the day. So maybe I have a 400Wh battery? Probably helps that my tender is very light and has a proper shape (Nautiraid 190 - can't think who might have sold it to me )

Intrigued by the mention of a software update. No idea what benefits that might bring but I can hope it might solve my main gripe about my particular Torqueedo which is that its often difficult to get the motor to stop completely. There is a centre indent on the tiller twist grip but even when the grip has clicked in place the motor will often continue to run very slowly. I find I either have to hunt to find the point at which it finally agrees to stop or, failing that, lift and replace the magnetic kill tab.

I will definitely put it in for a full service and battery check at the end of the season. Thanks again.

I have had the same twist grip issue. It is simple to fix with the recalibration procedure outlined in the user manual. You can do this without the kill cord attached.
Re-calibrate: Press “cal” button for 10 seconds.
• The display shows “cal up”: Press tiller forward to full
gas then press the “cal” button.
• The display shows “cal stp”: Return tiller to central posi-
tion then press the “cal” button.
• The display shows “cal dn”: Press tiller backward to full
gas then press the “cal” button.

Hope this helps.