Tohatsu MFS9.8A3 UL 9.8HP 4STR UL (£2,141.41p) in westerly centaur with dead engine

[AntarcticPilot]

I'd place myself amongst those who are supporters of Dylan, and don't want to see him involved in something that has "FAIL" written all over it. The latest information about the height of the top of the well above the waterline strongly suggests that the cockpit will flood in any sea at all, and that's not taking into account any squat under power. The waterline of my boat changes by at least 6" under power.

 

[ghostlymoron]

Hi Dylan,

Yes it has become quite contentious at this stage hasn't it? I think the reason why people may be upset, or not, about the whole thing is basically down to one of the following reasons:

1. They are looking through their own eyes as if they are the ones whom have to complete the task in hand.
2. Actually know that it's not a good idea & don't wish you to fail, they actually like you.
3. Think it's a good idea & would like you to give it a go, so that they may try it out themselves if it works.
4. They are a part of the 80% whom don't like change.
5. Would love to help you & be a part of the project.
6. Begrudge your very being & want you to fail.


Which when normalized becomes:

1. Supporters whom are just happy to help out & share their experience & knowledge
2. Begrudgers whom won't be happy until you fail
3. On the fence and enjoying the whole show

Me, I wouldn't do it personally, but happy to assist you in any way as it sounds like an interesting solution, albeit a little excessive.

So the bottom line is, as you're set on the idea and want to try it anyway, then go for it. They'll always be begrudgers, but more importantly, there will also be plenty of people whom want you to succeed.

Breizh

As the starter of the phenominally successful 'apostrophes' thread I would like to point out that the above post contains errors of grammar.

 

[alahol2]

That's the 'polite' form.

 

[Storyline]

..... The latest information about the height of the top of the well above the waterline strongly suggests that the cockpit will flood in any sea at all, .....

This is also my latest thoughts. I posted on another 'well' thread about our Westerly bilge keeler slamming in heavy weather. I am no expert but I would think that as the boat comes down off a wave the water between the keels can only go backwards not sideways as in a fin keeler and if it comes to a hole a certain proportion will go up the hole.

On a constructive note perhaps Dylan can find a student studying maritime studies/naval architecture who could take an interest in the project and make a simple scale model and test it in a wave tank - a bit of a long shot but there maybe someone out there looking for a project .....

 

[ghostlymoron]

I'd place myself amongst those who are supporters of Dylan, and don't want to see him involved in something that has "FAIL" written all over it. The latest information about the height of the top of the well above the waterline strongly suggests that the cockpit will flood in any sea at all, and that's not taking into account any squat under power. The waterline of my boat changes by at least 6" under power.

There's too many downsides with the 'inboard in well' solution. Air starvation is one and prop size for a displacement hull is another. Still, I look forward to the video.

 

[Seajet]

My boat has an outboard in a well, presumably a lot lower than Dylans' projected idea for a Centaur; it doesn't suffer backflooding or engine air starvation / choking on fumes etc.

That's not to say I think a well in a Centaur is a good idea though, if short on funds I'd go for a marinised vehicle engine.

 

[Tranona]

if short on funds I'd go for a marinised vehicle engine.

What sort of "marinised vehicle engine" would be suitable? And how would it be cheaper?

 

[Seajet]

Well how about a diesel from a van ?

I knew a boat with an air cooled Lombardini dumper truck engine, though I wouldn't personally recommend that as the cockpit sole got too hot to stand on, might have been OK with a big cooling fan and intake !

 

[ghostlymoron]

I'm losing track of these threads now thats about half a dozen of them with about a million contribution each have a stopping and starting again. This contribution has been dictated to my android phone so may not make a lot of sense full stop

 

[Tranona]

Well how about a diesel from a van ?

I knew a boat with an air cooled Lombardini dumper truck engine, though I wouldn't personally recommend that as the cockpit sole got too hot to stand on, might have been OK with a big cooling fan and intake !

Confirms what I thought - there are some subjects where you seem not to have a clue what you are talking about. What van has a less than 20hp engine that can be marinised? Never mind by somebody who is "short of funds".

The Lombardini was also sold as a marine engine - commonly seen in small fishing boats in the Med. Many marine base engines are derived from engines used in construction equipment - but marinised and fitted with a reduction box.

 

[JumbleDuck]

Confirms what I thought - there are some subjects where you seem not to have a clue what you are talking about. What van has a less than 20hp engine that can be marinised?

Rather dodgy point that, I'm afraid. Automotive engines are generally design to run continuously at only a fraction of maximum power. My Golf has a 60bhp engine (I think) but even cruusing at 70mph on the motorway it probably only needs 15 or 20hp. The rest is for overtaking. Therefore, if you are marinising an automotive diesel and want, say, 20hp continuously out of it, you should look for something with a lot more maximum power to start with.

Remember that the BMC 1.5 litre diesel was and still is extremely popular on boats, most of which used nothing like the 40bhp it produced in taxis.

 

[fergie_mac66]

Hi Dylan,

Yes it has become quite contentious at this stage hasn't it? I think the reason why people may be upset, or not, about the whole thing is basically down to one of the following reasons:

1. They are looking through their own eyes as if they are the ones whom have to complete the task in hand.
2. Actually know that it's not a good idea & don't wish you to fail, they actually like you.
3. Think it's a good idea & would like you to give it a go, so that they may try it out themselves if it works.
4. They are a part of the 80% whom don't like change.
5. Would love to help you & be a part of the project.
6. Begrudge your very being & want you to fail.


Which when normalized becomes:

1. Supporters whom are just happy to help out & share their experience & knowledge
2. Begrudgers whom won't be happy until you fail
3. On the fence and enjoying the whole show

Me, I wouldn't do it personally, but happy to assist you in any way as it sounds like an interesting solution, albeit a little excessive.

So the bottom line is, as you're set on the idea and want to try it anyway, then go for it. They'll always be begrudgers, but more importantly, there will also be plenty of people whom want you to succeed.

Breizh

You missed one

7) Would like to do it themselves but are not capable

 

[obmij]

And also..

8) Experienced a failed project

My first boat being good for entry into this group and little else - which is why whenever I hear of people 'rescuing unloved boats from the JCB' or the like I shudder a little - some boats should just be scrapped.

Likewise, whenever I hear about off the wall modifications to well proven designs (been there)

Lastly anyone uttering (or typing) the phrase 'just a weekends work' when talking about an unusual project on what is a project boat to start with, I get the urge to give them a bottle of brandy, 2 valium and a book of Greek Myths with a bookmark where the guy has to roll the boulder back up the hill, covered in fibreglass dust and epoxy.

Honestly mate - if your motivation for this is to save money, then save some money and buy a better boat.

 

[Seajet]

Confirms what I thought - there are some subjects where you seem not to have a clue what you are talking about. What van has a less than 20hp engine that can be marinised? Never mind by somebody who is "short of funds".

The Lombardini was also sold as a marine engine - commonly seen in small fishing boats in the Med. Many marine base engines are derived from engines used in construction equipment - but marinised and fitted with a reduction box.

I've changed a few engines; have you ?

 

[rogerball0]

And also..

8) Experienced a failed project

My first boat being good for entry into this group and little else - which is why whenever I hear of people 'rescuing unloved boats from the JCB' or the like I shudder a little - some boats should just be scrapped.

Likewise, whenever I hear about off the wall modifications to well proven designs (been there)

Lastly anyone uttering (or typing) the phrase 'just a weekends work' when talking about an unusual project on what is a project boat to start with, I get the urge to give them a bottle of brandy, 2 valium and a book of Greek Myths with a bookmark where the guy has to roll the boulder back up the hill, covered in fibreglass dust and epoxy.

Honestly mate - if your motivation for this is to save money, then save some money and buy a better boat.

Hi obmij

Mine hasn't failed yet but its been touch and go these last couple of years, i started my project as i was at a loose end, i had a work situation where i was finished in the early afternoon everyday, this is going back a number of years (2008) after venturing to sell the old mans boat, i came over all stupid and decided it was a sign (that no one bought it) and that i would rebuild it.

I thought it'll only take a season and here i am five years on and its still in my garden, i should point out it will be finished for no other reason than financial, (it owes me too much and i'm stubborn) it genuinely was a labour of love but now......well i neither love it nor hate it its just there and it needs finishing. And due to the sheer insanity of where i've ended up I wouldn't question a persons motives too harshly as you really only start with the best of intentions but i know what you mean when (with hindsight) you hear people talk casually of renovating a boat with x pounds and y time, on one occasion i interrupted a person in the boat yard to explain where i was upto and its safe to say there wasn't much colour in his cheeks when i finished explaining all the lost evenings, weekends, money and on the odd occasion eyesight be temporarily.

I think i got a bit blind-sided with my situation as the boats more family heirloom but if i knew then what i know now.....wow!

Personally speaking i have come to appreciate what frustration, despair and fortitude all mean and have a greater understanding of the human condition as a result, i cant begin to explain how many times i've had my head in my hands whilst in the bilges of my boat thinking now what? especially when confronted with yet more problems created by trying to solve another, the reason for my reply was my experience of 2010 and thinking at the time the legend of Sisyphus more than apt for how i felt towards the whole project

What was your project and why did it fail?

I'd really like to know the stories behind these boats that you see in yards up and down the country, not to mention ebay. A little while back I drove out to the yard where my boat originally languished, next to an old Hillyard, i remembered the bloke who owned her, a quite intense person who was always asking me loads of questions every time i was there, i even gave him my old engine seeing as he needed spares for his one, and did he finish it........nope, its still there in the same spot from when my resided some seven years previous slowly being reclaimed by nature, i often wonder what happened.

I think what i've learnt most from my experience is to have a plan, money and time frame and most of all do it when you're retired, and preferably not at the outset of the worlds biggest economic meltdown. Would i do this again? no chance, would i encourage anyone to do it? that depends on the individual but for me although a practical man for a living its a different kettle of fish i found when no-ones paying you. For the first couple of years the motivation was constant as were my earnings but when it disappeared almost overnight it became hard to focus on rebuilding a boat when i didn't have the money for the mortgage. Things are alot better although still tight but i have on more than one occasion gone shopping for chainsaws with the express intention of making two tonnes of GRP disappear - admittedly not with the same panache as a Las Vegas magician you understand but the thought was there - but then tomorrows another day and you start over again.

The only reason i'm pushing on with it now is curiosity, i want to see what it'll look like when done, in the same way as Dylans idea with the well, i'm genuinely interested to see if these seemingly crazy ideas come to something as its not the first thing you think of when buying a Centaur but i didn't all those years ago think you know what, i'll pay a well known yacht designer in the states a not unreasonable sum to design the backstay out of my Centaurs rig so i can step a huge mainsail on the existing mast but i have.

Like Dylan i've been accused of being a little barmy more by family than anyone else; my mum in particular stating "it was your fathers obsession and now yours - why?" and you know what? I couldn't honestly tell her as i dont know myself.

All i know is boats make you do strange things.

rog

www.agentlemansyacht.com

 

[chewi]

There's too many downsides with the 'inboard in well' solution. Air starvation is one and prop size for a displacement hull is another. Still, I look forward to the video.

To the OP of the apostrophe thread.

There are..... not there's..
Air starvation and prop size are two others. ( actually I take that one back.. I think it's correct as it is)
Someone had to say that!
;-)

 

[Simondjuk]

A van engine in place of an MD11C?

So that'd be four cylinders in place of two, probably a minimum of 1600cc in place of 1100cc, a much larger physical size, the need retrofit a heat exchanger cooling system, have an adapter plate made to mate it with a marine gearbox, engine carriers to fabricate, and numerous other complications to deal with.

It's not going to be either a cheap or easy option by any means.

 

[Nicholas123]

thank you for your input

I will not be buying a boat with a perfectly good diesel engine in it

I am after one with a jiggered engine

May I say that I am astonished that attempting to find a way of saving an oldboat from moldering away in the back of a yard should be considered contentious

I was out walking the dog in the rain and imagining what it would be like sitting down below in Katie L with my six foot three son for a week or more up against a wall in a Scottish harbour waiting for the weather to break and wondered if there was another way

This is the furthest I have been from my boat... ever

I am contemplating a winter without a boat to sail - or a project

I have sailed the socks off the duck punt on the local waters

I came home, looked at Centaurs on the web, looked at outboard dimensions and started posting questions on the web

I expected a couple of people who know about outboards to respond

along with all the extremely useful suggestions I stand accused of being

a troll

mad

a liar

not a sailor


and now balmy (alternative spellings and meanings are available - but I prefer this one)

what is it with some of you guys?

what is it about the idea of saving an old boat from a slow lingering death followed by an encounter with a JCB and a rubbish skip that you seem to find so evil?


any boat I buy will already be on death row

D

Dylan,you are talking to someone that 'saved an old boat' but that was not my motivation.It was to own a boat that was far beyond my means & somehow I ended up in Belgium doing it.I had an incredible adventure & had to spend months out there working on it before it was even in a fit state to sail back.It involved incredible deadlines & risk but somehow it all fell into place & now it seems like a miracle.
What is balmy about your scheme is you are condemning the engine before you have even seen it & are completely underestimating all the other work you will have to do before you have even got as far as looking at a boat.You could put an outboard on the back as an insurance policy & that is what I will do when I get round to it but for now I wish you plenty of luck.I am sure you will continue to provide us with plenty of entertainment.

 

[ghostlymoron]

To the OP of the apostrophe thread.

There are..... not there's..
Air starvation and prop size are two others. ( actually I take that one back.. I think it's correct as it is)
Someone had to say that!
;-)

Chewi, I've fallen into my own bear trap and full marks for spotting it. I know that, in future, I'm going to have to be spot on with my grammar and speeling.

 

[Tranona]

I've changed a few engines; have you ?

Yes - and in boats of the size and type under discussion. If you have it does not seem that you have learned anything from your experiences from what you have written.

Name me a "van" engine that can be installed in a small boat such as the one under discussion. Tell me how you are going to find the space, how you are going to keep it cool and what sort of gearbox you are going to use. Oh, and you don't have very much money to spend.