To survey or not...?

[JSPoole]

I'm buying a boat privately and trying to decide whether to have a survey?
I suppose ideally I'd like someone to have a look at the lifting keel, hull and main structural fittings.

Does anyone know a good value surveyor who could do just a basic survey like this for not too much money!

Surveyors seem to work on the principal that they charge you £300 or so - but they'll always manage to find £500 to bargain on. If you;ve already agreed a price and had a very good look at the boat and her history and seen the paperwork etc. I'd rather just get a thumbs up on a the keel and hull. Anyone else done this?

The survey on my last boat was next to useless - he didn't spot a spreader that was literally so loose and worn it was about to fall off, completely knackered rudder bearings. Trouble was it was my first boat so I was a bit green. Now buying my second boat I feel more confident looking over it carefully myself...

Any suggestions.

Thanks,

JS

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[stretch33]

I did'nt have a survey when l bought mine, it was my third, l spent 3 days going over it before l made the offer. Studied all the previous receipts and paperwork as well. Only problem l've had is the engine has died but don't think this could have been forseen. That was two years ago, now got to have a survey for the ins company anyway as boat is 11 years old - so will see what he has to say.

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[JSPoole]

My insurance company never asked me for a survey? (Craftinsure.com)

Maybe I better check!

J

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[oldsalt]

Bought my present boat 6 years ago without a survey, just spent a good bit of time looking at it myself and have never regretted it. I had a survey on my previous boat and paid a small fortune for being told the bleedin' obvious. (the cushions are showing signs of wear...etc etc!)

If you are practical and your insurance company does not require one, then survey it yourself. If you are not practical and/or your insurance company insists, then pay for a survey.

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[AndCur]

Looking over the boat yourself is a good way to go and you will often spot things the survey wont.The only problem you will come across is when you come to insure your new boat is the the insurance company will ask for a survey so you might as well gat this done before you part with any of your hard earned cash!!!

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[richardabeattie]

If you are spending more than £10k have a survey. They are so paranoid about being sued that they won't do quick surveys just looking for important things, they insist on a full job.

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[brianhumber]

Will you need for insurance, JGW requires at 15 years age, others I believe have 20 years time limit
Surveying is 80% common sense/dilligent seeking out and 20% pre-knowledge and exprience of certain weak points in various designs to point the surveyor in the right area.

When I bought Ronhilda, I restricted the survey to hull and deck only and my mate and I used our practical engineering common sense to survey the rest. In fact my mate was worried he had destroyed our friendship becuase he could see the stars in my eyes and kept pointing out salt soaked cushions, old engine filters, stiff winches, worn main sail etc.

If you are around the Southcoast can reccommend John Excel who was very practical, helpful and produced a good report for reasonable cost.

Dont forget surveyors have been hammered by huge huge insurance increases as well last and this year.

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[Dave_Knowles]

I think you will find that with Craft Insure you need to have a survey every third year. Can't remember if it applies to boats over a certain age though.


<hr width=100% size=1>Dave
Southampton - uk

<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.MyCleopatra.co.uk>The site for cleopatra boat owners</A>

 

[mickshep]

Hi J. I'm also with craftinsure. they do not ask to see the surveyors report before giving cover but in the small print, in the event of a claim they want (in my case at least) a survey less than 3 years old and a professional valuation. Mike.

<hr width=100% size=1>"Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get me."

 

[Dave_Knowles]

I had my boat survey done by Jeffrey Wood <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.jeffreywoodmarine.co.uk>http://www.jeffreywoodmarine.co.uk</A> The survey he did was very good value and he produced a document of 43 pages covering just about everything. If you are going to use your boat on a river he will also sort the certificate out for you.

In my mind it was worth every penny.

<hr width=100% size=1>Dave
Southampton - uk

<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.MyCleopatra.co.uk>The site for cleopatra boat owners</A>

 

[ex-Gladys]

The Surveyor who did Amber for insurance and purchase was first rate. Spending several thousand pounds on a boat and not spending £350 or so is up to you. If you have got it wrong and have missed something major are you better off throwing away the repair price or £350. I wish we'd got as comprehensive reports on our house (and taht survey cost £1500) that our boat surveys have given us. Amber's was 20 odd pages of text plus about 30 digital photos



<hr width=100% size=1>Larry Botheras

Anderson 26 "Amber"

 

[Guest]

As th eowner of a marine survey co. which in turn owns the lab that I quote sometimes .... I can say
a) It is not normally the Surveyor who insists on a full survey, but the client who does not state clearly what he wants and where to stop.
b) My co. insists on a clear statement confirmed in writing exactly what are client instructions and requirements.
c) We make sure that all apsects under those conditions are covered as far as practical circumstances permit and state so clearly on report.

The mention of suing is unfortunate as this should not be necessary if all parties are agreed as to what is expected and agreed.

I read some posts where mention is made of bits missed etc. and often these are bits inaccessible at time of survey, way out of reach of the surveyor without crane !, removal of structures would be required to inspect ..... etc.

Honestly I am not trying to defend or run away from responsibility, but I have had requests that have turned into their expectation for full survey - when the request was for hull and deck ......

Sorry but we have to be clear and precise on what we want. Once agreed and in writing there is no need for suing etc. unless surveyor actually fails to complete satifactorily the agreed within reasonable limits.

The post that includes Insurance costs going up for surveyors .... so ????


<hr width=100% size=1>Nigel ...
So WHAT does the EU really stand for ????/forums/images/icons/cool.gif

 

[Guest]

Many Ins Co.

Want at 10 yrs age and then each 5 yrs or when they feel like its time .
Obviously this normally affects people when they change Ins. co and the new one wants a recent survey of less than 5 yrs previous. etc.


<hr width=100% size=1>Nigel ...
So WHAT does the EU really stand for ????/forums/images/icons/cool.gif

 

[AndCur]

Re: Many Ins Co.

I am insured with Bishop Skinner and they only needed a basic condition survey
which cost £80 but he did do 5 Achilles at the same time hence the discount.That was 4 years ago so i expect to have to get another done in the next year or so but i have been told by them that they will left me know a year in advance when they need a new survey. Can say fairer than that.

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[JSPoole]

Re: Many Ins Co.

I checked with Craftinsure.com - they don't require a survey until the boat is 20 years old.

JS

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[Guest]

There you are then ...

I didn't say ALL Ins. CO ..... I said many ....

But it is also true to say that they seem to be relaxing their previously unrealistic attitudes to this ...... I believe because Osmosis and other matters are better understood by them now ... and the expectations of boats falling apart didn't happen ...... they actually had more losses from hurricanes.


<hr width=100% size=1>Nigel ...
So WHAT does the EU really stand for ????/forums/images/icons/cool.gif

 

[muchy_]

I agree entirely with what you have said.
Surveys are not worth the paper they are written on and you will never be able to sue a surveyor because they always manage to cover themselves "hull OK but could be rotten in places that couldn't be seen". Had the same with my house survey "pebble dash fine but could be blown on parts unseen". Three months later big area of pebble dash falls off, phones surveyors and told them and all I got was "well we did say that it might be blown". Thanks a lot, I can do that kind of survey myself. A friend of mine has just bought a boat which was surveyed. All the survey found was rust marks in the bilge, dirt on the decks and excess sealant around one of the outdrives. Reality was, one engine overheats so badly that it cant be used, the outdrive on the other engine jumps out of gear at anything above idle. And this was a FULL survey. He has been on to his solicitors but they have confirmed that the surveyer has covered himself so nothing he can do.
Yes, you could end up buying a boat that needs work but how gutted would I be to know that on top of that expence was the £550.00 to a surveyor for basically nothing.

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[Guest]

OK ... but read on ..

Requested to look out for boat for prospective onwer ...(he was new into boats ...)
So he passed on what he wanted. I looked and passed over a few ... then got a call from him - 'Nigel, can you check out this great boat I found .... xxxxxxxxxx'

So we agreed to meet and in the first hour had already identified a) strained hull and fractured hull to deck joint, b) hull compression that without proper inspection was not apparent to plain eye, c) deck cracked and embedded beam for mast compression failed.
This was not only faults but were sufficient to change the mind of one client ... he later found and I checked another boat .. which now I am happy to say he was very plaesed with, he sold on to another who also was very plaesed and the next boat I inspected also ... that has proven to be another good one.

Now before anyone accuses me of making advertising space on here - I am illustrating the pitfalls that I have observed, I am not perfect and I make mistakes. I write a clause in my report the same as any self respecting person would in protecting themselves from underlying faults that cannot be seen / identified in a survey as normally carried out.

Some expect us to crawl around on some grotty slipway, gunge and barnacles etc. meter a boat and declare it sound or otherwise without allowing some leeway ???? C'mon - who's the fool ???? I had to check over a Halcyon one time ... guy told me ... no problem it will be dried out in a good place where we can get to all we need etc. etc. It was the scrubbing posts in a harbour that I will not name - but believe me it was nearly over the boots in mud and c...p, I lost my dictaphone somewhere in the mud .... etc. etc. I did everthing I could as I knew I wouldn't have an alternative .... so what do I write in the survey .... ?? OK the boat was good .... but what about if the keels had a problem and being difficult to get under the boat and I had missed it .... of course I would be the bad guy ..... not the owner who wanted a survey in totally unsuitable location.

I can relate many similar and other horror stories .... at times I have had to refuse and politely request a better location ....

Now I have upset a few - I will rest, as I am getting a bit narked about this. Generally a good service is provided by most - of course there are cowboys, builders, plumbers, car mechanics, boat surveyors etc. etc. So what's nw ?? My advise is to ask around the LOCAL yards and boat-owners for rec'd surveyors .... then you have some chance of having a reasonable guy .... ignoe the stupid claims of Expert in this and that in some adverts, and associations that are self-appointed self-regulating self-perpetuating bunch of ......

QED


<hr width=100% size=1>Nigel ...
So WHAT does the EU really stand for ????/forums/images/icons/cool.gif

 

[charles_reed]

I've never had a boat surveyed, but I have tried to find out as much as possible about the particular model of boat in which I'm interested and in it's weak points.
(ie Sadlers' deck delamination, Moodys' rudders)
In any case the boats have usually been 2 - 4 years old when bought.

I know a number of surveyors and, if I had any doubts about anything on a boat I'd definitely ask for a 2nd opinion.

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[oldsalt]

Re: OK ... but read on ..

I'm sure you do an excellent job, and it's impossible to check all of a boat. In addition as you have said, sometimes you have to work in poor conditions.

However I do beleive that a practically experienced sailor can do his own survey on most small craft. I will happily do this for myself, but I will not do it for friends. I'm happy to help them with a pre-survey inspection only.

However anyone can call themselves a yacht surveyor. The so called professional bodies are mickey mouse outfits that don't enforce standards or professionalism. The profession really has to get its house in order if respect is to be gained. I know who the good surveyors are locally (because I've lived and sailed here for 2 decades). However if I was looking at a boat in the other end of the country, I would have to go by the brokers recommendation. Newcomers to the sport stand very little chance at all.

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