Tranona
Well-known member
Think you will find that a 1GM or a Nanni/Beta 10 is both smaller and lighter than the Volvo petrol engine and properly installed will be just as quiet and smooth - certainly the 2 cylinder models.
To re-engine or not to re-engine.......
- Thread starter James W
- Start date
Think you will find that a 1GM or a Nanni/Beta 10 is both smaller and lighter than the Volvo petrol engine and properly installed will be just as quiet and smooth - certainly the 2 cylinder models.
CreakyDecks
New member
Do you know there is a Norwegian company still building your engine?
http://www.mamut.net/marnamotor/sitemap.htm
Sit down with a large scotch before you look at the price of spare parts on the Nettskedskart page
(9.1 Norwegian kr to £)
http://www.mamut.net/marnamotor/sitemap.htm
Sit down with a large scotch before you look at the price of spare parts on the Nettskedskart page
(9.1 Norwegian kr to £)
ghostlymoron
Well-known member
I agree that you would be unlikely to recover the cost of a new engine if you sell but, only you know if you are likely to sell in the next 5 yrs. The advantages of a diesel are many including better economy, no ignition circuit (water and ignition are poor bedfellows) and obviously safety (no explosive fuel to store). A modern diesel engine installation is a good selling point and will make the boat easier to sell if you decide to do so.
As far as the dreaded alignment is concerned, there's a good description of how to do it (on an existing installation) in Pat Manly's book 'Simple boat maintenance'. There's also a book called 're-engining your boat' or I think its an RYA publication so should be reasonable.
If it were me - I would change it.
Don't forget about the alteration of fore/aft trim if the new engine is substantially heavier
As far as the dreaded alignment is concerned, there's a good description of how to do it (on an existing installation) in Pat Manly's book 'Simple boat maintenance'. There's also a book called 're-engining your boat' or I think its an RYA publication so should be reasonable.
If it were me - I would change it.
Don't forget about the alteration of fore/aft trim if the new engine is substantially heavier
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ianj99
Active member
How do they compare on fuel consumption, power and torque?
Tranona
Well-known member
With what? The diesel compared with the petrol or the two diesels?
The petrol is a low revving engine (1500 from memory) and produces 10hp. It will push the Trident at max hull speed easily. My experience with the engine (or rather the Albin, Volvo is just a rebadged Albin) is in a 4/21 - that is how I know about weight having had the engine in and out at least 3 times. A fellow club member replaced his with a 1GM and performance was very similar. I have fitted both a Yanmar and a Nanni and both are far superior to the petrol engine on all counts. The Yanmar used under 1L hour - don't know about the Nanni yet as not had it long enough but expect a little higher as it is rated at 14hp. Consumption on the petrol engines, both the Albin and the Stuart Turner typically over 2L an hour.
Because the diesels are much higher revving they will need a reduction box - either 2 or 2.6:1 and a prop to suit. Reduction will depend on how big diameter prop can be fitted.
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ianj99
Active member
Petrol v diesel, of course.
Another prop needed - yet more expense.
Personally I'd not change a low revving petrol engine for a noisier diesel unless I also wanted more power, or had to replace it due to problems which is not the case here.
Ian
ianat182
Well-known member
Tranona has referred to the propellor briefly, but this too is an area that is of concern and cost additions.
I fitted my Volvo Penta MD2010 after removing the older Volvo MD1. The new engine revs to 3600 but economical revs at about 2600, the old engine max I suppose of 2500RPM ;and a different gearbox ratio of 2.35:1 so required a slightly longer propshaft and a new and different pitch propellor; the engine is lighter and shorter than the old one.
Getting new engine bearers made was not expensive, just planning ahead for the new mounting positions when engine was installed, but DIY installing saved at least £1000 on the new price of £3500 then, and covered the new shaft and prop expense.
Apart from the frequent loss of the engine hours counter display (a typical fault) the motor has performed very well the last 5 years.
No reason yours should be any more difficult, but an assistant is most useful!
ianat182
I fitted my Volvo Penta MD2010 after removing the older Volvo MD1. The new engine revs to 3600 but economical revs at about 2600, the old engine max I suppose of 2500RPM ;and a different gearbox ratio of 2.35:1 so required a slightly longer propshaft and a new and different pitch propellor; the engine is lighter and shorter than the old one.
Getting new engine bearers made was not expensive, just planning ahead for the new mounting positions when engine was installed, but DIY installing saved at least £1000 on the new price of £3500 then, and covered the new shaft and prop expense.
Apart from the frequent loss of the engine hours counter display (a typical fault) the motor has performed very well the last 5 years.
No reason yours should be any more difficult, but an assistant is most useful!
ianat182
Tranona
Well-known member
You have obviously not lived with one. Look at the OPs original post - it is not troublefree. Spares are hideously expensive and it is not the easiest engine to work on. It is also equally as "noisy" as a modern diesel, or rather the diesel can be equally as quiet if the engine box is insulated.
Functionally in every aspect the diesel is better.
The only real issue is whether it is worth spending the money on a replacement - and as I suggested that is largely dependent on how long you want to keep the boat and whether you think you will get value out of your money. It is not the only option. The obvious one is to keep the old engine running as long as you can, but that may not be long, but as the OP has a whole engine as spares might be viable. Another option, which many do is junk the inboard and use an outboard. Another option is to sell the boat and buy something with a modern engine. However this might cost more than the cost of a new engine plus the value of the current boat.
chrishelen
N/A
Hi, If you do decide to replace your engine its less work if everything is on the same side, like exhust pipes.... i replaced a lovely little petter with a pretty looking Volvo 2001 in my Eventide a few years back.
The Volvo fought me all the way, i needed to make new bearers out of steel to replace the old wooden ones,also the exhust and fuel lines were on the other side and all the pipes were imperial and the Volvo used metric.
Then the propshaft coupling didnt fit the volvo or vice versa, I replaced the coupling only to find the volvo's internal diameter was to big for the propshaft,so i sleeved the coupling,The alignment was pretty easy, i must say, I could go on.. lots of midnight oil being burned but we got there.
Cant you move the fuel tank away from the cooker, you will need a new tank if you go for a Diesel? i suppose.
oh yes you might need a new prop.
The Volvo fought me all the way, i needed to make new bearers out of steel to replace the old wooden ones,also the exhust and fuel lines were on the other side and all the pipes were imperial and the Volvo used metric.
Then the propshaft coupling didnt fit the volvo or vice versa, I replaced the coupling only to find the volvo's internal diameter was to big for the propshaft,so i sleeved the coupling,The alignment was pretty easy, i must say, I could go on.. lots of midnight oil being burned but we got there.
Cant you move the fuel tank away from the cooker, you will need a new tank if you go for a Diesel? i suppose.
oh yes you might need a new prop.
James W
Active member
This is the forum as its best, thanks to all that have given the benefit of their extensive experience!
I have done a lot of thinking and taking note of your comments, I have found a Yanmar that I think will do the job perfectly. I had thought that I would persevere with the Volvo, using the parts that I have, especially as someone posted, she has been safe since 1974, why would it explode now? The issue is that small parts are pricey and can be hard to get hold of, the engine must be getting towards the end of its working life and the petrol still worries me, especially with a young family on board.
Weight shouldn't be an issue as the Yanmar is actually lighter than the MB10a and, as a smaller sized engine, I might even be able to make a bit more space in the Trident next to the galley. As a matter of interest, the MB10a is actually 15hp and although the Yanmar is a bit less powerful, 15hp was a bit overkill in a 24 footer anyway.
I'm picking up the engine on Thursday and am going to try a self install for the sake of saving a few quid, perhaps with the help of a mechanic friend, and i'll let you know how I get on!
If anyone has any tips with regards to wiring, props etc, i'd love to hear them!
Thanks again.
I have done a lot of thinking and taking note of your comments, I have found a Yanmar that I think will do the job perfectly. I had thought that I would persevere with the Volvo, using the parts that I have, especially as someone posted, she has been safe since 1974, why would it explode now? The issue is that small parts are pricey and can be hard to get hold of, the engine must be getting towards the end of its working life and the petrol still worries me, especially with a young family on board.
Weight shouldn't be an issue as the Yanmar is actually lighter than the MB10a and, as a smaller sized engine, I might even be able to make a bit more space in the Trident next to the galley. As a matter of interest, the MB10a is actually 15hp and although the Yanmar is a bit less powerful, 15hp was a bit overkill in a 24 footer anyway.
I'm picking up the engine on Thursday and am going to try a self install for the sake of saving a few quid, perhaps with the help of a mechanic friend, and i'll let you know how I get on!
If anyone has any tips with regards to wiring, props etc, i'd love to hear them!
Thanks again.
ianj99
Active member
The last petrol marine engine I remember was from getting on for 50years ago in the old mans boat. It started on petrol and when warm enough to vapourise the paraffin, ran on this. I recall the magneto being unreliable, the exhaust smell, the low noise levels...I think it was a Kelvin but I could be wrong.
Tranona
Well-known member
Nostalgia is a wonderful thing. I also loved my Stuart Turner - because it was better than the outboards on my previous boats. But it only ran when it wanted to (very quietly and smoothly) and had a habit of stopping when it wanted to - not when you wanted! Yanmar was a revelation after 12 years of that (only 8 or so of which it ran without major dramas).
Tranona
Well-known member
Number of suggestions, assuming it it is a 1GM 10. First, and most important is check the gearbox ratio (on a plate on the box). There are 3 different ratios and this will have a major impact on the prop you use - particularly if it is a 3.1:1 as you may not be able to swing a big enough prop. When you know the ratio, feed the data into the Propcalc programme www.castlemarine.co.uk to get a ball park size, then consult your chosen supplier for their recommendation.
Before you install check the engine mounts for delamination - they have a hard life as the engine moves about a lot. Very expensive to buy genuine Yanmar and note front and back are different hardness. You may want to consider Poly mounts as a replacement. You will need to fit a flexible coupling - Bullflex or Centaflex if you can afford it, otherwise at least an R&D. Essential if you have a fixed shaft. Consider re-engineering the stern gear to fit a Volvo seal.
On the engine side, remove the exhaust manifold and check the inner tube for corrosion. Install an antisyphon valve in the hose from the engine outlet to the exhaust injection and a water trap in the main exhaust - see www.vetus.com for schematics of layouts.
Replace the anode in the water jacket - underneath the alternator. Check the water pump and replace the impeller. Consider fitting a Speedseal cover - you will understand why the first time you struggle to remove the standard cover. Check and replace the oil transfer pipes under the engine if there is any sign of corrosion.
Replace the fuel filter while the engine is out as it is a PITA to access once installed. You will probably need a new water intake as it is 1/2" compared with the more common 3/4". Sensible to install a water filter above the waterline immediately above the intake.
Electrics are straightforward but check the pins in the multi connector in the main wiring harness as they are prone to corrosion - often cause of poor starting, or rather poor starter turnover.
Sounds a lot, but attention to detail will result in a good installation and years of good service.
theoldsalt
Active member
Ianl99,
Goodness you are taking me back to my youth when I drove a ferry boat with a Kelvin petrol/paraffin engine. Bit of a swine to restart if it stopped on paraffin as it needed flushing with petrol before it could be restarted. Happy days
Goodness you are taking me back to my youth when I drove a ferry boat with a Kelvin petrol/paraffin engine. Bit of a swine to restart if it stopped on paraffin as it needed flushing with petrol before it could be restarted. Happy days
SHUG
Active member
Arrrrr oldsalt I remember the old days when Ford Popular sidevalve petrol engine was all the rage in old boat conversions.
Direct salt water cooling and the head gasket would corrode after two months. Being sidevalve it could be changed in half an hour. You knew it was going as you had to heat the spark-plugs under the grill before it would start. I remember the time..............enough enough!!!
Good luck with the Yanmar.
Direct salt water cooling and the head gasket would corrode after two months. Being sidevalve it could be changed in half an hour. You knew it was going as you had to heat the spark-plugs under the grill before it would start. I remember the time..............enough enough!!!
Good luck with the Yanmar.
Tranona
Well-known member
They weren't much better in a car! My parents had a 100E Popular in 1960 - last of the breed. Remember the servicing every 1000 miles (at 19/6) and the decokes every 10000.
30boat
N/A
Don't be daunted by the idea of fitting a new engine.Just look at it as a series of small jobs and you'll get there without trouble.I've done it at least five times and never found a problem I couldn't solve.
wytco0
New member
I am sure it will go well.
Please post how you get on, pictures would be great, I love seeing these things happening.
ianj99
Active member
Ianl99,
Goodness you are taking me back to my youth when I drove a ferry boat with a Kelvin petrol/paraffin engine. Bit of a swine to restart if it stopped on paraffin as it needed flushing with petrol before it could be restarted. Happy days
Aye, they don't make 'em like they used to! (thank goodness)
I forgot that small diesels for cars & boats didn't exist until the latter half of the last century so petrol or petrol/paraffin engines were common in boats.
I think my father was glad to see the back of it, as were my uncles who he called on to fix the maggy most weekends.
His next engine I recall, was a horendously noisey Lister 8hp single cylinder air cooled thing. I can't believe how low the output was for the size and weight of the thing compared to modern diesels. Buts that's progress.
Ian
Ian
Chris.mcc240
New member
There is a book , how to insall a marine diesel by nigel calder available from amazon, well worth investing in..the only thing i paid to get done was wiring up the new unit. Cost £50 to a local guy. Money well spent.
If its second hand you will almost certainly need new mounts , they are expensive but it will make a huge difference.
Local Engineering firm made me a spacer to join the prop shaft to the new gear box, took both parts in told them what i was trying to do and they had it done the same day. The prop was suitable though both left engines had left hand!
Oh and i aligned mine using tape measure, bits of wood protractor elastic and a bit of ingenuity.
Its a really good project. And by the time your finnished if you have any problems whilst out you will know ecactly where to look.
If its second hand you will almost certainly need new mounts , they are expensive but it will make a huge difference.
Local Engineering firm made me a spacer to join the prop shaft to the new gear box, took both parts in told them what i was trying to do and they had it done the same day. The prop was suitable though both left engines had left hand!
Oh and i aligned mine using tape measure, bits of wood protractor elastic and a bit of ingenuity.
Its a really good project. And by the time your finnished if you have any problems whilst out you will know ecactly where to look.
