To move or not to move...that is the question

[Captain_Chaos]

Just had a very pleasant few days pottering about the South Devonshire coast but events on saturday evening crystallised what could be a more significant problem when the drink/sailing laws are enforced.

Pulled into the Yealm mid afternoon, boats already rafting up on the pontoon so elected to pick up a vacant mooring ie without dinghy attached. Waited for harbour master who said that as their was no dinghy on the mooring (signifying owners intention not to return) and as he hadn't been informed of the owners intention to return said it was OK to stay and he duly relieved me of £11.50 for the priviledge.

Had a few glasses of vino and just as the galley slave had cooked the steaks to perfection we became aware of a boat alongside informing us that we were on his mooring and to move.

Well, I was on his mooring and I did move within 5 minutes (a please and or thank you from the mooring owner would have been appreciated). However, although I knew that I was not a danger to my crew or anyone else on the water, there is no doubt that if I had been breath tested I would have failed.

Question: If a more aggressive drink/sail regime is introduced, under similar circumstances would you move?



<hr width=100% size=1>My drinking team has a sailing problem

 

[Talbot]

No - I would have got the harbour master to move it

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[duncan]

this, along with need to reanchor 'cos it started dragging, unforecast conditions make anchorage unsafe etc etc all make for a huge clash of priorities.

unfortunately the only real answer is that at anytime you are in charge of your vessel, possibly even including your own mooring, you should be 'under the legal limit' - but that isn't going to happen. Otherwise you have the spectre of 'discretion' - which is ridiculous from a legal standpoint and totally unfair on those tasked with enforcing laws.

in the specific instance you quote I would have moved if I felt capable (ie. as currently); and I would have had a difficult, but hopefully understood, discussion about sharing the mooring if I was incapable. Unfortunately I probably wouldn't be too good at communicating either but waving the harbourmasters receipt would be a good start.

<hr width=100% size=1>madesco madidum ..../forums/images/icons/smile.gif

 

[i_sail]

A few glasses of vino is an integral part of sailing culture - its another example of the nany state trying to impose misery and control through laws. Anyway there are enough muppets out there on the water who are SOBRE so the law is an ass!

Anyway - in answer to your question - no I wouldn't move the boat if the law comes in force. Would not want to risk a ban for the sake of someone having there "home" mooring for the night.

IMHO, people are far too precious about there mooring. Anyway its not "there" mooring or "there" berth - it belongs to the berthing authority or company - and is simply rented.

REMEMBER - berthing is a privilage NOT a right!!!!

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[Brian_B]

You should have come alongside (with your vino), we were on one of the three visitors moorings and left at 15.10.

I've had similar advice from the harbour master who is very relaxed about the situation.
Unfortunately, some of the mooring owners don't share his attitude.
It does concern me that we are charged for using another's moorings. Does this money find it's way back to their owners?

As for drinking and sailing. You would have no option. You'd have to call the harbour-master/coast-guard/RNLI to move your yacht. To do otherwise would be against the law. That's what makes impending legislation unworkable.
This Government is working with a productivity bonus. The more new laws they create the more they're paid. Never mind the quality, feel the width!

Why can't the leave sailors alone and concentrate on the real law breakers who are speeding along the motorways at 70mph+.

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[chas]

Beg to disagree......

Quite a lot of people own their moorings. If I take the taxi out to mine and go off for the day, I want to return to it at night. If you drove off in your car in the morning and came back in the evening to find another car parked in your drive, would you leave him there and go and find somewhere else to park?

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[boatless]

Re: Beg to disagree......

Surely a more correct analogy is 'Resident's Parking' - you don't own the freehold of the mooring, just a license. In the case of RP, you do get quite attached to the spot outside your house, but can't really grumble when you find someone else in it. Obviously you grumble like crazy about the Local Authority lining their pockets at your expense with another hidden tax...

<hr width=100% size=1>my opinion is complete rubbish, probably.

 

[Aardee]

"Question: If a more aggressive drink/sail regime is introduced, under similar circumstances would you move?"

Answer: I wouldn't drink. I enjoy driving for leisure too, but always manage to stay sober for that. Why should boating be any different???


<hr width=100% size=1>"I am a bear of very little brain and long words bother me" - A A Milne.

 

[Robin]

Having had someone park in my drive (as in completely in) for 6 hours, and I DO own the freehold, as well having returned to find a visitor in our marina berth who has left his boat, but no contact number and he is not a club member, 'because he has a problem with his mooring', I can understand it is very easy to be angry! That was just 2 weeks ago and then yesterday we return and find another visitor in our berth, he 'just wanted to be alongside a couple of hours to clean his boat and to fill up with water'. Both times we returned at dead low water with litterally mm under the keel and a very limited area deep enough to wait around in. On the first occasion we had to take 2hrs off work the following day to move our boat from a temporary berth. We were not rude to the visitor but I do think they now understand our feelings, ours is a yacht club marina with clear signs saying berths available for visitors but you MUST phone or radio ahead BEFORE entering so that a vacant berth can be allocated.

We fill in a card for the berthing master when we are away to allow visitors to use our berths on the clear understanding that they vacate by midday on our due return day. If we do not fill in a card then we can be returning anytime and that could be at 2am.

So yes I will be 'precious' about my berth, I have paid a lot of money for it and SCAs are not welcome!

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[Aeolus_IV]

Yes, surely once the Harbour Master has relieved you of the necessary mooring fees it is now his responcibility? After all, isn't this part of the service you are paying for - management of the berthing within the area of the Harbour Masters remit?

Puzzled,
Jeff.

<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://users.swing.be/FDB/centurion/index2.html>Centurion 32 Web site</A>

 

[Neraida]

On the Beaulieu it is clearly stated (in the information leaflet) that if someone returns to their berth and you are on it, you have to move. Nothing is mentioned about the Harbour Master's responsibility to find you another or waiving of mooring fee.

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[Joe_Cole]

It seems a bit unfair to not move and therefore inconvenience the berth holder, but these things can usually be sorted out with a bit of friendly courtesy. If I returned to my mooring and there was another boat there I would tie up alongside him if conditions were OK. At least let him finish his dinner!

It also seem a little harsh to expect the harbourmaster to sort things out as some have suggested. Whilst, in some ways, he may have caused the problem, he was only trying to help. In my experience the harbour masters usually bend over backwards to help and, if they get it wrong from time to time; well, that's boating! We would complain if they turned us away, claiming that the harbour was full, so we can't have it both ways.

From the point of view of the booze, I suspect that technically we are still in charge of the boat even when moored up. Sadly, it may mean that we'll be expected to be sober.

Joe

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[chas]

Re: Beg to disagree......

we just buy them - I think some have ground rent but others do not. Just like my drive!

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[milltech]

When you drink in the pub you know you must drive home, when you drink on the mooring you are "at home". The two are not the same at all.


<hr width=100% size=1>John
<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.allgadgets.co.uk>http://www.allgadgets.co.uk</A>

 

[sailorman]

i actually own my mooring inc all "tackle" & MAINTAIN IT
i rent the spot the sinker sits on from the " CROWN COMMISIONERS" @ £ 80 pa


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[Talbot]

Re: Beg to disagree......

If I owned the mooring, I would be somewhat aggravated, but in that case the harbourmaster would not (or at least should not) rent it out to someone else. If the harbourmaster is free to rent it out again, then as soon as you have paid for the berth you have entered a contract for a berth for the night, thus if the real owner returns and demands his own berth, it is clearly the harbourmasters responsibility to resolve. I would make sure that the owner berthed alongside me, but I would certainly not leave the berth until an alternative had been identified. The berthholder also needs to read his own contract which clearly in this case allows the harbourmaster freedom to berth visitors when he is away, and thus reduce the costs of his own mooring! Perhaps he needs to make certain that the harbourmaster knows when he is returning.

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[sailorman]

as i understand the 70 mph law was only to conserve fuel but i may well be completely wrong.

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[Joe_Cole]

John,

Not sure about that. I suspect that if he is on the boat the skipper is still responsible for it and all that that implies.

Joe

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[Aardee]

The only time I'd consider myself "at home" on the boat is if I'm at my "home" mooring - In my case against a pontoon in a marina. Even then I don't think it's unreasonable to be expected to remain sober. I am, after all, still in charge of the vessel.

If I'm tied up to someone elses mooring, I fully expect to have to move at short notice.

Question: Where do the drink-drive laws stand regarding motorhomes in caravan sites?? - This is the closest analogy to us on our "home" berths I can think of.


<hr width=100% size=1>"I am a bear of very little brain and long words bother me" - A A Milne.

 

[jonjo]

Re: Perpetually drunk.

From www.websters.com - 4th definition for sober

Devoid of frivolity, excess, exaggeration or speculative imagination.

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