Tips on selling your boat - from a buyer

RupertW said:
Well that is the difference between one that sells quickly and one that doesn't
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+1. I expected almost everything to be basically functional. They were between ok functional and near perfect. Had we found Real faulty gear,we would have haggled appropriately. That goes for sellers also. If you don't come clean with shortcomings, or can't be arsed fixing things, it will make selling much harder.
 
JumbleDuck said:
Leaving aside the fact that "it's not selling, let's drop the price, ooh it's sold" is not perhaps the greatest market insight of all time, why didn't his experience tell him it was too dear five weeks earlier?
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Because I wanted to try it at a higher-but still not out of the way-price first. It was among the lower end of those for sale worldwide, and had a high spec. Jonic agreed with the strategy.

His experience, as clearly stated, was that if loads are looking online, but not booking viewings, its too dear. The price I asked him to offer it at was well within the ball park for the age and condition of the vessel. Dropping the price worked, and worked quickly.

Good advice from a very Professional guy. Worth the fees.

He was right. Our next boat was available, a model not easy to find, and at the right price, so a quick deal was a good thing.

Unusually, we got more than we paid for it, after six years hard use.
 
rotrax said:
Bottom line is, if you want to sell a boat, do as the OP suggests.

Very clean, no junk, food containers or old useless parts around or in view.

Presented properly and offered at the right price, it should attract interest.

Jonic sold our last boat. He inspected, pronounced we were presenting it well, took his photos and got it in the marketplace.

5 weeks later, hundreds of hits on line, no viewings. He suggested that his experience told him it was too dear.

Taking his advice, we dropped the price 10%. Sold it within two weeks very close to the reduced asking price.

Pro advice can be invaluable.

It is well to be aware the true value of anything is only as much as you can get for it.....................................
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I have to disagree with what you been told, sorry, I had my own wed site when I had mine advertise, so I could see how many people was hitting the site and where from,
I had hundreds of hit from the most unlikely country you can think off,
my view is that their wasn't serious buyers, just dreams.


Before deciding to sell my privately I tried four broker in Greece, one had been mention in an easily posting by someone, all British brokers, frankly I wouldn't recommend any of them, their service was diabolical,
People I know who was serious looking to buy was told by one that he had to wait a week to view a boat that was sitting 100 mts from the office.

Brokers seem to Value a boat by search on the internet what other broker boat sold for, then suggestion to list it at that prices, Thats not given you a true valve,
A boat may have sold for say 80k but it's asking prices may had been 88k so already he knock off 8k, also the only information he has are from boat sold through some brokers,
There must be thousand sold privately or through brokers that are not listed.

There another part to this we need to consider ,
Brokers are comparing one model of a certain year to another, not taken in any consideration for condition or equipment, it seems their opinion is equipment don't increase the valve of a boat just help to sell it better, personally that's rubbish, a boat with say new sails and rigging value can't be valued the same as one that has 10 year old sails and rigging,
A boat that been badly looked after isn't worth nothing like one that has been looked after.

My experience is, if I sold mine through a broker I would had been 15k less off, that's without accounting for the 7% commission they wanted.
 
johnalison said:
"Widow's boats" are probably quite common and no doubt represent good value. I know someone who did well out of buying one. On the other hand, there are inexplicable cases of neglect.
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JumbleDuck said:
That's how I bought my Longboat. She was in a hell of a state when I got her, having being abandoned in a yard for five years, but I had faith in the quality of construction, and a couple of days' hard work got her sparkling again.
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My Italian marina has a large contingent of ageing German couples with immaculate classic yachts (mostly Hallberg-Rassys) and the passing years see them, one by one, falling off the perch and their cosseted treasures coming onto the market.

A year after I bought my present boat I heard with a shock that a good friend and berth neighbour from Munich had died. His wife was aboard a little later to remove their effects and put up for sale, and I went along with my condolences. Their HR Monsun was a similar size as my own boat, 31', and truly in superb condition. "What a pity you have just bought your boat," she said, "Herbert would have loved you to have had her. I'm not worried about price and I know we could have agreed on something". It then sold privately very quickly so I guess it went cheaply; someone (a French buyer, I heard) clearly got a bargain.

That same year, another friend, Hans, came aboard. We had often cruised Croatia in company and I had always admired his Salar Buccaneer 40, which he lavished all his time and money on keeping in pristine condition. "Eva thinks we are too old to sail any more so I'm putting Antares up for sale and you have first offer," mentioning a ridiculously low price. He knew how much I liked her (I see his original 'for sale' web site still exists here, despite having sold quickly). In the middle of renovating my own just-bought HR 94, I had to reluctantly decline.

So yes, so-called 'widow's boats', can be a great source of well-kept vessels where I am.

.
 
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Barnac1e said:
So yes, so-called 'widow's boats', can be a great source of well-kept vessels where I am.

.
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Our recent purchase in Kiel was a "widow's sale".
Dry stored in owner's business warehouse for 3 years after he died. Good boat in nice order with a good collection of lightly used somewhat costly sails. Not exactly cheap but was good value.
 
sailaboutvic said:
I have to disagree with what you been told, sorry, I had my own wed site when I had mine advertise, so I could see how many people was hitting the site and where from,
I had hundreds of hit from the most unlikely country you can think off,
my view is that their wasn't serious buyers, just dreams.


Before deciding to sell my privately I tried four broker in Greece, one had been mention in an easily posting by someone, all British brokers, frankly I wouldn't recommend any of them, their service was diabolical,
People I know who was serious looking to buy was told by one that he had to wait a week to view a boat that was sitting 100 mts from the office.

Brokers seem to Value a boat by search on the internet what other broker boat sold for, then suggestion to list it at that prices, Thats not given you a true valve,
A boat may have sold for say 80k but it's asking prices may had been 88k so already he knock off 8k, also the only information he has are from boat sold through some brokers,
There must be thousand sold privately or through brokers that are not listed.

There another part to this we need to consider ,
Brokers are comparing one model of a certain year to another, not taken in any consideration for condition or equipment, it seems their opinion is equipment don't increase the valve of a boat just help to sell it better, personally that's rubbish, a boat with say new sails and rigging value can't be valued the same as one that has 10 year old sails and rigging,
A boat that been badly looked after isn't worth nothing like one that has been looked after.

My experience is, if I sold mine through a broker I would had been 15k less off, that's without accounting for the 7% commission they wanted.
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Without getting into advertising for a particular broker, all I can say is that we had exemplary and very professional service from Jonic of this forum.

He did his job by finding a purchaser, we did ours by presenting the boat for sale in a clean and seaworthy state.

It was a fairly expensive purchase for the new owner-a retired RN officer-but he knew his boats having spent nearly twenty years with a large Nauticat. Downsizing to ours was what he wanted.

We pointed out that the batteries were old, but still providing good service, that the main was a little baggy, but still gave good service and that the Yankee was new, the Windlass had just been replaced and the reliable Yanmar started if you looked at it, used no oil and had plenty of power.

Like you, I have met crap brokers. I had £40,000 in my pocket once, went to view a vessel at a very well known Solent yard. The broker gave me the key, told me to get on and view it on my own as " I've got a real prospect at our other base "

I would not have treated a spotty youth who wanted to buy a 500 quid mo-ped in that manner!

If the boat-a Dehler-had have been any good, I would not have bought it from that broker under any circumstances.

If you have the time, incination and skills to do a website, deal with punters and the paperwork, good on you.

I did not, and got a good result.

As, apparently, you did. Well done.
 
pagoda said:
Our recent purchase in Kiel was a "widow's sale".
Dry stored in owner's business warehouse for 3 years after he died. Good boat in nice order with a good collection of lightly used somewhat costly sails. Not exactly cheap but was good value.
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From my experience Germans are very particular boat-owners and usually with sufficient disposable incomes to maintain their boats well. Stereotyping perhaps but something in their psyche demands high standards, both in manufacturing and upkeep.

Searching for my present boat I travelled northern Europe and German examples were by far the best-kept (but expensive), Dutch ones almost so and cheaper, which is where I eventually bought.

Through the 1980s I implemented industrial process control automation systems, many of them to auto manufacturing factories in the phase before robotisation, all over Europe - for example in Italy, Germany, Belgium, France and the UK. It was interesting that only in German plants did the line-workers fastidiously clean up their work-places at lulls in the production cycle.
 
rotrax said:
Without getting into advertising for a particular broker, all I can say is that we had exemplary and very professional service from Jonic of this forum.









If you have the time, incination and skills to do a website, deal with punters and the paperwork, good on you.

I did not, and got a good result.

As, apparently, you did. Well done.
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I also heard through contact that Jonic is a good broker,
But As I never had any dealing with him, it wouldn't be fair to comment on his services.

Building a web site isn't that hard at all , there are some good friendly uses site and free too.
The hard thing is having the time to deal with viewing, when selling privately, followed by sorting out the tyres kickers to the genuine views and the once just out for a day sail, that part is easily, as the boat was on the hard, although one did ask me if I was willing to have to boat launch at my cost so he could have a sail. My reply can't be repeated here for fear of a ban.

Paper work side isn't a problem, you can down load contract from the MCA or the RYA

The money can be a problem, as in given someone you don't know a large deposit, but there ways around that, a solicitor with hold funds in a client account for a small fee.
Or you could ask a broker if he was willing for a fee to hold the funds, although when I went down that route the broker wanted 5%. I declined.

Lucky my buyers were easy to work with and quickly came to an agreement.

I found as I said many time before, making a Video goes a long way to selling a boat,

It took me from sept to the following June to find a buyer,
For four of them months I was away from the boat so I couldn't let people view.
I got almost the asking price less 2k.
I only ended up showing four people around, two which was looking for a desperate seller and there many of them about, the one that did buy it , had looked at cheaper model, that where in a condition and less equipment that would had cost more in the end then what they payed for mine boat.
Also some where ex charter VAT not paid,

Broker have their place and to a lot of people it's may be their best option, I have used them in the pass but I have to say my experience lately with the once I had contact with isn't very good at all.
 
It seems our situations were different. I needed a boat that gave easier acess when getting on and off, no climbing up the freeboard. I have nuts and bolts in my knees and First Mate has a tweaky hip. The boat we decided would fit the bill was available at a price I could pay, as long as I sold my boat for a reasonable sum.

As in changing cars houses and boats, what is important is the cost to change.

Jonic, IIRC, found a buyer who offered a good price-enough for me to proceed with the other boats purchase-within seven weeks.

His website is among the best in the business, he sorts the voyeurs, tyre kickers, tosspots and wasters so you dont have wasted time and deals with the paperwork and money.

Talking about duff brokers, there were several mistakes in the paperwork from the broker involved when we purchased, including the HIN! Jonic resolved those issues.

We got Jonic to do the conveyancing of the boat we subsequently purchased-it was a private sale-the peace of mind when spending that sort of money was well worth it.

In the event, we only had the one purchaser view, twice. He looked at a newer, more expensive one, but viewed ours a second time and offered enough for us to accept.

I trust you are delighted with your boat-we are with ours.
 
Beware. We couldn't figure out why the broker's ad in B&A was difficult to find, we knew it was there somewhere but could only find it with a specific search for the make and location. Then we found the main ad had no length entered, what's the first refinement you put in a search? Years wasted. All that we found for boats within local area was in the lowest length category, 0-12 ft long or some such. As soon as we put our own ad in Apolloduck we had eight enquiries, sold in two weeks.
 
An interestjng discussion. I'm down the rather lowly end price wise, but I have bought 4 boats and sold three, starting with a little Club 16 and now owner of a Leisure 23SL.
The boats I have bought have all had trailers, well the Leisure didn't but I got the boat for a song because she was on an inland lake and had been for sale at a brokers for quite a while. She'd been moved out of the main yard into a sort of boat and trailer graveyard and was sad and neglected on the outside, but like a new boat inside.

My second boat, again bought from a broker, an Evolution 19 came with a good trailer, and I maintained and improved both boat and trailer over the time I owned her. I sold her for more than I paid, and got the £5000 I asked for her within two hours of posting a very detailed advertisement with pictures in the office of another sailing club. When I started to look for her slightly bigger replacement, I covered a lot of miles, and saw some truly dreadful boats, mostly on trailers which I would no more have taken on a public road than fly through the air. And there was the problem. The idea that some people had as to what was a suitable piece of metal with wheels on which to stick their precious boat was just incredible. Bad welding, rust, homemade designs that looked like they had been put together by a 6 year old with meccano. Similarly, quite a few of the boats were pretty awful, for one Evolution 22 we drove all the way from Lincolnshire to Southampton. The boat's trailer was very iffy, and the boat itself had had a coat of two pack white paint that had gone badly wrong. The rosy description made no mention of any of the faults.
Eventually we bought a Newbridge Venturer from a broker in Woolverstone that needed a lot of work, which I did myself. The trailer looked reasonable, but in the end we probably sank more money into the trailer than the boat, as it turned out the boat weighed some 700 kilos more than the started displacement and the trailer was not rated for that, but this paid off because I in 2015 I sold it, sight unseen, to someone in the UK for about the same money I had paid for it some 12 years previously. I put it on boats and outboards and then linked to a website I created, with a very accurate description, about 30 photos. All receipts were available. The trailer plate by then tallied with the actual weight of the boat, and we had weighbridge certificates to prove it.
This enabled me to buy my Leisure and and about half the cost of the new trailer.
So, if the boat is well presented, enough good photos are included in any advert, the price is in the real world, and if a trailer is included, it is up to the weight of the boat and is capable of being legally driven away, you can get towards the top end of the price for that class of boat. It takes time and effort, and you have to be willing to field the stupid enquiries as well as the genuine ones to find a buyer. I guess like Estate Agents, there are brokers who are content to just let a boat sit on their books without actively trying to market it.
 
A sound reply, and one which after forty years selling motorbikes for a living I completly agree with.

Well presented, at the right price and ready to go things should attract buyers.

It does in the end come down to what I put in my first post-its only worth what you can get for it!
 
hairbox said:
bet I could find something wrong with it
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I had a punter like you once, he wanted my I937 Triumph T80 Post Vintage racing motorbike.

It was completely ready to go, successful history, increasing in value daily. I priced it at what I wanted for it, about as much as I thought I could get for it.

There was not another available world wide. During a telephone conversation I had told the guy interested that the price was not negotiable, asking price or no sale. He was travelling in excess of 300 miles to view, and, as I expected, buy.

He turned up after a long drive. He examined the bike, I started it up-easily-and he listened to the engine and checked for oil leaks and defects. He indicated he had heard and listened enough, so I turned off the fuel and stopped the engine.

He then offered 75% of the asking price. I put the bike back in the workshop, on its stand, locked the door and said goodbye.

He was gobsmacked. " But-were are having a deal! " he spluttered. " I was offering less because the chrome is a bit dull, the paint has been touched up with a brush and the exhaust has been scraped "

I asked him what he thought " The price is not negotiable " meant.

He paid up, full price, has had good results and no breakdowns.

You can always find something wrong-but if the asking price takes that into account-as mine for the bike did-and the price already reflects the true value, will it get you anywhere?

As I said, anything you have for sale is only worth what you can get for it.
 
I have sometimes offered a guarantee, not something you could do with a boat probably. An oil boiler, I had picked up second hand, I had no idea about it, but I asked a fairly stiff price and told the man, who was humming a bit, he could bring it back and money back within seven days if it was no good to him. He perked up, then offered about 80%. I said fine, but no guarantee. he paid the asking, never saw him again. Trailer as in another thread here, I had no idea if it was OK, told the man he had 30 minutes to get back if, for instance, there was bearing noise he didn't like, but if he wanted to haggle because I couldn't say if it was OK, then 'as seen'.
 
hairbox said:
bet I could find something wrong with maybe a scratch or two faded gel get real no second hand boat will perfect
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New boats have there problems - you will be very lucky if you get a new boat without a significant list of snaggings/faults even with high end marques - there is an argument to be made for purchasing a second hand boat when these snags have been sorted.
 
Many thanks to everyone who contributed to this thread. I am pleased to see how much interest it sparked. I'll try to answer some of the main points you all made.

First, I totally accept that no second-hand boat comes without its faults and anyone who believes otherwise is in for a long search. However, there is a difference between a few scrapes and something that turns out to require major investment to fix. Any doubt the buyer has about which end of the spectrum a fault is will cause them to either offer a substantial discount or walk away. This is why IMHO, it's essential to give out as much information about the condition of your boat as you can and back it up with documentation to remove any possible doubts in the mind of the buyer.

I also accept that if the seller has researched the market and priced their boat according to the market (and not let any emotional ties cloud their judgement) then they should expect to reach a sale at, or near to, their asking price. Provided they can reassure the buyer that the boat is worth their price through demonstration and documentation.

I think the underlying point to the tips listed was that any seller who thinks they can simply have their final sail and then hand over the keys to the broker, yard or marina with no further effort to make their boat sellable, will likely find it difficult to make the sale.

In my year-long search for my boat, I have found more than a couple of examples of owners who have done exactly that.
 
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