Tips for Inspecting a second hand boat for purchase

[kingfisher]

After 10 years boatless we’re thinking about going sailing again. Aside from the fact that chandlery and insurance prices seem to have risen exponentially, what are some tips for the inspection?

The boat is a 1985 Malö 106

So far I have:
Check keel tip for groundings (boat is in Sweden).
Mast step
Check for soggy decks, check for leaks around windows
Check bilge and keel bolts
Check date of sail drive seal
Check status/date of batteries
Check ball valves
Check chain plates for cracks/corrosion

Is it acceptable to remove the oil filter to check for sparkles/ shavings?

Anything to add to the check list? Anyone familiar with the weak points of Malö’s?

 

[Tranona]

The RYA publishes a book on buying used boats which has a checklist for when you view a potential purchase. Clearly on a 40 year old boat you will a professional survey and most surveyors will provide you with details of what they will cover. This is an example from a surveyor I have used which gives a good overall picture of what to look for. turbolink.co.uk/seasurveys21/surveys.html

The usual way of proceeding is to take the particulars from the seller and check that everything he claims is there. You can do the obvious visual checks including a review of the documentation that comes with the boat, particularly any record of service work or repairs and replacements. Hopefully this will give you enough confidence to make an offer subject to satisfactory survey and sea trial to check that everything works as claimed.

Important to bear in mind that a 40 year old boat will not be perfect, so the inspection process is to identify whether it represents good value for you at the asking price. The survey is to confirm this or otherwise.

 

[Refueler]

First and Foremost : Make sure you have that YES gut feeling about the boat viewed. Any feeling that its a compromise or not quite will never go away ..

Once you have looked over obvious areas ... checked inventory against advertisement / list by broker - seller ... and you FEEL its the boat you want ... get a Surveyor or a Yard guy you trust to look it over .....

OK - so you've had it looked over ... guy has given a report and you have negotiated with broker / seller .. agreed price.

Next is to insure ... many people will use the Sale / Purchase Report ... with all its points of faults etc. But ... its worth asking the Surveyor or Yard Guy for a short report for Insurance - basically stating its Seaworthy / In good order.

 

[MisterBaxter]

I'd take a good look at the hull/deck joint all the way around; look carefully all around the keel/hull joint; inspect the sails, all over if at all possible; and get your head into every dark corner of the interior, looking for damp, damp staining, damp smells... All things that I've ended up wishing I'd done more carefully in the past!

 

[Alicatt]

If you are changing registry from one flag to another then it may be better to take the boat home under it's old registration rather than have to wait on the cancellation of one and the reregistration in the country you want her to be flagged.

We fell into that trap, it can take up to 6weeks to get our boat registered in Belgium, meanwhile she is still sitting in the broker's harbour in The Netherlands about a 2 hour drive from home.

 

[kingfisher]

If you are changing registry from one flag to another then it may be better to take the boat home under it's old registration rather than have to wait on the cancellation of one and the reregistration in the country you want her to be flagged.

We fell into that trap, it can take up to 6weeks to get our boat registered in Belgium, meanwhile she is still sitting in the broker's harbour in The Netherlands about a 2 hour drive from home.

Huh. Good to know. I’m Belgian as well, so the boat will be flagged (vlaggenbrief) in BE. Sweden does not have a registry (AFAIK), so we can keep sailing under the Swedish flag until the BE registry is completed (and then there is the transfer of AIS/VHF ATIS to deal with,….). Boat will get a new name as well.

 

[kingfisher]

First and Foremost : Make sure you have that YES gut feeling about the boat viewed. Any feeling that its a compromise or not quite will never go away ..

Once you have looked over obvious areas ... checked inventory against advertisement / list by broker - seller ... and you FEEL its the boat you want ... get a Surveyor or a Yard guy you trust to look it over .....

OK - so you've had it looked over ... guy has given a report and you have negotiated with broker / seller .. agreed price.

Next is to insure ... many people will use the Sale / Purchase Report ... with all its points of faults etc. But ... its worth asking the Surveyor or Yard Guy for a short report for Insurance - basically stating its Seaworthy / In good order.

I’m not sure about the Survey. The boat is 36.000€, so not quite sure a survey is worth it. I mean, what are they going to flag that I can’t find (I refurbished a 1971 31ft boat, so I’ve dealt with soggy decks, broken motor mounts, seized ball valves,…)

I also wonder whether the boat yard is going to shoot down a boat that is currently stored with them, going against their current client?

 

[Alicatt]

Huh. Good to know. I’m Belgian as well, so the boat will be flagged (vlaggenbrief) in BE. Sweden does not have a registry (AFAIK), so we can keep sailing under the Swedish flag until the BE registry is completed (and then there is the transfer of AIS/VHF ATIS to deal with,….). Boat will get a new name as well.

Our new to us boat was registered on the Dutch Kadaster and has now been removed from that after the sale to us, now we await the pleasure of the FOD and get her registered, The FOD said we cannot bring her back until she is registered, and like you said about the MMSI and ATIS we have to get the registration first then apply to Bipt for them, AIS I'm awaiting on that getting delivered today.
We are on the Kanaal naar Beverlo at Kerkhoven.

 

[Tranona]

I’m not sure about the Survey. The boat is 36.000€, so not quite sure a survey is worth it. I mean, what are they going to flag that I can’t find (I refurbished a 1971 31ft boat, so I’ve dealt with soggy decks, broken motor mounts, seized ball valves,…)

I also wonder whether the boat yard is going to shoot down a boat that is currently stored with them, going against their current client?

It is your own choice as to whether you rely on your own assessment - and if you feel confident maybe you would not be asking the question here! A professional survey is virtually essential now (at least in the UK) to get all risk insurance. The survey may also uncover something you missed that has a material effect on the value and most sale and purchase contracts allow for renegotiation in those circumstances. Surveyors should have professional liability insurance and they work for you not the seller or the yard..

Leaving aside the insurance issue which perhaps you should check, a survey is likely to cost 5-600 euros or 1.5% or so of the asking price of that boat. You may well recover that and more if s/he finds something that results in a reduction in price, or even in extreme could prevent you from buying a bad boat.

Like you I have experience in both building and restoring boats, but I employed surveyors in my latest purchase. The first boat I made an offer on turned out to have some well hidden defects sufficient for me to withdraw. I was with the surveyor all the time and we discussed his findings as he went through the boat which was invaluable.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

The RYA publishes a book on buying used boats which has a checklist for when you view a potential purchase. Clearly on a 40 year old boat you will a professional survey and most surveyors will provide you with details of what they will cover. This is an example from a surveyor I have used which gives a good overall picture of what to look for. turbolink.co.uk/seasurveys21/surveys.html

The usual way of proceeding is to take the particulars from the seller and check that everything he claims is there. You can do the obvious visual checks including a review of the documentation that comes with the boat, particularly any record of service work or repairs and replacements. Hopefully this will give you enough confidence to make an offer subject to satisfactory survey and sea trial to check that everything works as claimed.

Important to bear in mind that a 40 year old boat will not be perfect, so the inspection process is to identify whether it represents good value for you at the asking price. The survey is to confirm this or otherwise.

Your last paragraph is key and so important with many purchasers expecting to buy a boat that is as new and making no allowance for age, that does not mean that the boat is not sea worthy.

 

[Alicatt]

It is your own choice as to whether you rely on your own assessment - and if you feel confident maybe you would not be asking the question here! A professional survey is virtually essential now (at least in the UK) to get all risk insurance. The survey may also uncover something you missed that has a material effect on the value and most sale and purchase contracts allow for renegotiation in those circumstances. Surveyors should have professional liability insurance and they work for you not the seller or the yard..

Leaving aside the insurance issue which perhaps you should check, a survey is likely to cost 5-600 euros or 1.5% or so of the asking price of that boat. You may well recover that and more if s/he finds something that results in a reduction in price, or even in extreme could prevent you from buying a bad boat.

Like you I have experience in both building and restoring boats, but I employed surveyors in my latest purchase. The first boat I made an offer on turned out to have some well hidden defects sufficient for me to withdraw. I was with the surveyor all the time and we discussed his findings as he went through the boat which was invaluable.

Was quoted €1000 for a presale survey in Belgium, same survey in Holland was €600

To antifoul our little boat in Belgium, was €2k the same in Holland was €700

 

[Fr J Hackett]

Was quoted €1000 for a presale survey in Belgium, same survey in Holland was €600

To antifoul our little boat in Belgium, was €2k the same in Holland was €700

All the more reason for not keeping a boat in Belgium when there are reasonably close places that are considerably cheaper.

 

[Alicatt]

All the more reason for not keeping a boat in Belgium when there are reasonably close places that are considerably cheaper.

At least it is only a short sail from Belgium to Holland for us, and for us we have to have the boat registered in Belgium though many Belgians keep their boat in Holland and have it registered there.
It was quite an eye opener asking around the shipyards in Holland, I guess it's part economy of scale, there are far more boats in The Netherlands than here.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

At least it is only a short sail from Belgium to Holland for us, and for us we have to have the boat registered in Belgium though many Belgians keep their boat in Holland and have it registered there.
It was quite an eye opener asking around the shipyards in Holland, I guess it's part economy of scale, there are far more boats in The Netherlands than here.

Wasn't there something about being able to register in any EU state providing you complied with your own states tax requirements?

 

[wonkywinch]

Blatant plug for my ad - PAPERBACK FOR SALE : Choosing & Buying a New & Used Yacht by Duncan Kent

 

[Alicatt]

Wasn't there something about being able to register in any EU state providing you complied with your own states tax requirements?

The boat will be in my wife's name and as she is Belgian and the boat kept in Belgian waters, it has to be registered under the Belgian flag. Our haven is a 10 minute drive from the house.
I can assure you this is the cheapest way for us in the long run, it could be the difference between having to pay 50% or 3% tax on the boat if something should happen to either of us

Registration cost here is €59 and it gives title to the boat, Casper was in our joint names, but on discussing tax implications with our accountant Hunter has to be in my wife's name or the kids could get hit with a big tax bill for her should the worst happen.
Insurance is not bad, €425 for full hull coverage, covers all of Europe from the Azores to the Nord Cap in the north, excluding Russian territorial waters in the Baltic and Black Sea, and full Med coverage as well, including Türkiye and the Bosporus.

 

[kingfisher]

The boat will be in my wife's name and as she is Belgian and the boat kept in Belgian waters, it has to be registered under the Belgian flag. Our haven is a 10 minute drive from the house.
I can assure you this is the cheapest way for us in the long run, it could be the difference between having to pay 50% or 3% tax on the boat if something should happen to either of us

Registration cost here is €59 and it gives title to the boat, Casper was in our joint names, but on discussing tax implications with our accountant Hunter has to be in my wife's name or the kids could get hit with a big tax bill for her should the worst happen.
Insurance is not bad, €425 for full hull coverage, covers all of Europe from the Azores to the Nord Cap in the north, excluding Russian territorial waters in the Baltic and Black Sea, and full Med coverage as well, including Türkiye and the Bosporus.

What insurance company are you with?

 

[Alicatt]

AG Insurance through Thibo verzekeringen BVBA who are our local insurance agents

Thibo verzekeringen

 

[dunedin]

I’m not sure about the Survey. The boat is 36.000€, so not quite sure a survey is worth it. I mean, what are they going to flag that I can’t find (I refurbished a 1971 31ft boat, so I’ve dealt with soggy decks, broken motor mounts, seized ball valves,…)

I also wonder whether the boat yard is going to shoot down a boat that is currently stored with them, going against their current client?

You can appoint the surveyor you choose. Should be entirely independent from the boatyard.

 

[kingfisher]

Update: the insurance company wants a pre purchase inspection report, so guess I’ll be looking for a surveyor north east of Stockholm.