Time for me to get another boat!

[Whitelighter]

Berth is about right, assuming you can get a rental sub let.
Insurance is high - I'm paying less than £500 for Seralia (bigger but similar value)
Lifts are cheap at Scm - €9.90 per metre for a lift and hold, so €120 a time for the Azi
Antifoul - there are F43s in the marina using micron 77 and getting two years between applications. Your 2k is spot on based on invoiced costs I have seen for similar sized boats.
Laundry - depends how many times you do it but if you had a set of bedding each you could get it washed and changed for €50 - or do it yourself in the on site machines
I think upgrades and stuff are subjective. If you are on a budget (like me) I will do things when I have the money, rather than when I'd like to. For my mind £2000 as a contingency seems fine. Upgrades aren't a contingency purchase so outside of usual costs in my mind

 

[MapisM]

On the topic of boat sharing, would it be feasible to find a boat sharing partner before purchasing a boat or would it be easier for me to buy a boat first then look for a partner(s)?

No need to worry about that, P.
Just forget the AZ39 and jump on a plane to Genoa on monday, I can come to pick you up.
The Cigarette 42 of my other thread is just round the corner from there (it isn't called airport marina for nothing!), and we can see her together.
Jfm already joined for 1/4, and myself for the same share, so there's still 50% available.
And I'm pretty sure that after posting a sea trial report, we'll have to deal with a queue of punters willing to join.
Like MYAG for instance - as soon as he'll realize that we could turn rings around his quadruple outboard Intrepid, he will want a share for good!

 

[petem]

Ref that boat, when I was looking at the advert the other day on my phone I couldn't understand the cabin design...

All made a bit more sense on a bigger screen!

 

[Portofino]

Never mind 1/2 boat share
@less than £30K ish? -this will transport you in comfort to the islands and back easy
Sure it needs a few cosmetic updates ---which you can enjoy doing - but at this price in M sC ? This summer ?
http://en.yacht4web.com/Bruno-Abbate/primatist-42/49447/brochure?k=adv

 

[MapisM]

Ahem...
No disrespect for Abbate - one of my lake toys has been a boat built by them, and she was fantastic for waterski.
But comparing a Primatist 42 powered by a couple of truck Caterpillar engines with an SC1075 powered Cigarette is the boating equivalent of the famous "Beetle vs. 911 Turbo" Top gear gag...

 

[stelican]

Love the washroom facilities!

 

[longjohnsilver]

Love the washroom facilities!

Yes, never seen a stainless bog and bidet before.

 

[vas]

Yes, never seen a stainless bog and bidet before.

actually, wouldn't mind a SS bog for the main heads, makes sure noone stays there for long

cheers

V.

 

[Portofino]

Yes, never seen a stainless bog and bidet before.

How long have you been out ?

Who,s been detained at HM pleasure ? ( Allegedly

 

[petem]

Yes, never seen a stainless bog and bidet before.

I've only seen them in mortuaries on the TV.

Gonna take a lot to convince SWMBO to go for that one!

 

[Whitelighter]

Yes, never seen a stainless bog and bidet before.

It's not a proper boat unless you have at least two of each

 

[stelican]

Depends how many a -oles you intend having onboard

 

[stelican]

Wonder what the harmonics are like

 

[petem]

As those that have been following this thread may recall, as a result of the advice received here, we've shifted our hunt from a Fairline Targa to a 36-40ft flybridge.

Yesterday, Rafiki of this parish kindly invited us on board his AZ39 (not to buy, simply to get a feel for the model) that is moored just down the road from as at Portishead and is spookily is also called Rafiki .

Paul's boat is a pre Evo model and as some of you will recall has been recently and beautifully refreshed with new leather upholstery and carpet.

I wouldn't normally critique a fellow forumite's boat but as my comments are all favourable I hope you won't mind Paul. So these are my observations:

The flybride has a crescent shaped seating area and Paul's boat has a pedestal mount for a table. Aft there are two good sized sunpads. Helm to port (might take a little getting used to). I think I'd want a bimini (some Med boats have this) and Paul confirmed that a retro fit would be easy. I was pleased to see that the steps up to the Fly were of the moulded in variety so very safe (no steep ladders here).

The Cockpit is generously sized. Paul's has teak flooring which he was in the process of giving a light sand. We'd definitely spend time eating here so would do what Paul has done and buy a folding table that can be stored in a lazarette. Paul keeps a 2.7m tender on the teak bathing platform on Hurley davits, still allowing access to the gates that are placed on either side of the cockpit. I like a teak platform but Paul's view is that it's probably more hassle than its worth (some Med boats are plain non-slip GRP).

Saloon - really liked the big seating to starboard, very comfortable and I can already see where I'd be for an afternoon kip! Drinks cabinet / TV and more seating to port. Flush fit frameless privacy windows give a really light feel. Great helm, on the right / correct side of the boat .

Galley, small but perfectly formed. Tall domestic size fridge / freezer, all electric hob and oven / microwave combi.

Master cabin, good sized with ensuite bathroom. Proper shower cubicle. Lots of storage.

Guest cabin, again, a good size with lots of headroom. Particularly liked the jack and jill access to the day heads / shower.

Overall, very impressed with the quality, fit and finish and the contemporary feel of the boat.

In summary, both my wife and I am now firmly of the opinion that a boat like this would make a far better Med machine for the 4-7 day holidays that we'd use it for. In particular it would be far more comfortable than a Targa if we had guests on board (albeit I think that more than 4 people on board for anything more than a couple of days would be a bit too cramped). For a flybridge, I don't think I'd want to go any smaller than this.

Thanks to Paul for your time and showing us around your lovely a very well kept boat.

Next steps - as Paul reminded me (graciously he waited a good half an hour to do so!) it's not a Fairline so I think I should at least take a look at a Phantom 38 of the same era and see if that would tick all our boxes too. I also need to pull my finger out and make some more effort to find a partner or two to share the boat with.

Incidentally, at the marina there was a very shiny Sealine F43. I know these are incredibly spacious and practical but what struck me is what a great looking boat this is, even to this day. Definitely Sealine's best design.

Pete

 

[rafiki_]

Great to meet you and your lovely wife Pete. Thank you for your kind words, Rafiki has been somewhat neglected recently due to our holiday, so lots of pre-season work underway.
Very best wishes in your boat hunting, and don't hesitate to come back with more questions or another visit. ��

 

[Whitelighter]

And it only took 48 pages....

You know my thoughts on this Pete and a 40ft ish FB is definitely the way to go. Azi 39/42, Phantom 38/42, Sealine F37, would all make great Med boats.

With regard the share, you might have to get the boat and advertise a share - rather than finding a partner first unless you already knew them

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Another convert to the flybridge crowd, Pete! Yes you're absolutely right. If a boat has to double up as a villa as well as a boat, as most Med boats do, then you need as much indoor and outdoor living space as you can get

Yes, the Sealine 390/410/F43 was a great boat, one of Sealine's best, and I don't understand why nobody else has tried to copy its innovative aft cabin/aft cockpit design or indeed why Hanse hasn't designed a replacement

 

[Whitelighter]

Bavaria have their take on it coming out - though as a sort of SD charter thing it's broadly a similar idea.

I never under stood how fairline screwed up the P43AC so badly - they lost the standard p43 side cabin and replaced it with nothing.

No wonder they only sold a handful

 

[TwoHooter]

Re: Time for me to get another boat! - shared ownership

I hope a few comments about shared ownership might be worthwhile. I have never shared a boat but I have been a member of two light aircraft groups. Shared ownership is very common in the UK light aircraft world. Pick up any issue of "Pilot" magazine and there will be lots of adverts from people selling shares. Here are my thoughts:
1. My favourite period of aircraft ownership was when I had my own plane, but that was because I was flying extended trips a long way from home. My wife and I personally wouldn't want to share our boat but that's because we want to keep moving to different places. For a boat that is going to be based in one place and make excursions of up to a fortnight I think shared ownership could work.
2. Personal relationships are vitally important. The two groups I belonged to were very careful to interview and seek references on new members. Joining was a bit like applying for a job or a house rental. Carelessly run groups who take anyone who has a PPL and the money to buy a share often founder.
3. Combination of 1 and 2: members have to share the same aspirations about how the boat is going to be used and the interview process must dig deep to make sure everyone truly agrees about this. As an aside I met some lovely people in the groups I belonged to. I don't see why people sharing a boat shouldn't become friends too.
4. Aircraft groups have a tried-and-tested method of dealing with money. They charge members an hourly rate using the Hobbs meter which covers expenses that build up by the hour, and may be "wet" (include fuel) or "dry" (fill the tank yourself after every booking). There is also a monthly charge which covers standing costs like hangarage/tie-down and insurance, but also (this is vital) includes contributions to what is usually called the "engine fund". For a boat group you could call this the "sinking fund" but I wouldn't advise that. Seriously, the aim is to have money in the kitty for big expenses like planned engine maintenance AND some cash to pay big unexpected bills. Nobody likes receiving a demand for a big payment out of the blue. If I was starting a boat ownership group from scratch I'd want some money in that fund from day one.
5. You must have a written agreement. The Popular Flying Association used to publish a standard draft - perhaps their successors the Light Aircraft Association still do? But don't rely on lawyers to sort out any future problems, they will often make things worse not better. Include a provision for arbitration of any disputes by an experienced independent person with genuine current boating experience, a crystal-clear process for winding up the group including payment of on-going expenses while the boat is on the market, and make the agreement subject to English law.

There's a lot more I could say but this post is already too long. I think there's a lot of scope for shared boat ownership if it's done right. Perhaps the magazine could kick-start this by running an article and starting a classified ads section for boat shares?

 

[capsco]

Re: Time for me to get another boat! - shared ownership

I hope a few comments about shared ownership might be worthwhile. I have never shared a boat but I have been a member of two light aircraft groups. Shared ownership is very common in the UK light aircraft world. Pick up any issue of "Pilot" magazine and there will be lots of adverts from people selling shares. Here are my thoughts:
1. My favourite period of aircraft ownership was when I had my own plane, but that was because I was flying extended trips a long way from home. My wife and I personally wouldn't want to share our boat but that's because we want to keep moving to different places. For a boat that is going to be based in one place and make excursions of up to a fortnight I think shared ownership could work.
2. Personal relationships are vitally important. The two groups I belonged to were very careful to interview and seek references on new members. Joining was a bit like applying for a job or a house rental. Carelessly run groups who take anyone who has a PPL and the money to buy a share often founder.
3. Combination of 1 and 2: members have to share the same aspirations about how the boat is going to be used and the interview process must dig deep to make sure everyone truly agrees about this. As an aside I met some lovely people in the groups I belonged to. I don't see why people sharing a boat shouldn't become friends too.
4. Aircraft groups have a tried-and-tested method of dealing with money. They charge members an hourly rate using the Hobbs meter which covers expenses that build up by the hour, and may be "wet" (include fuel) or "dry" (fill the tank yourself after every booking). There is also a monthly charge which covers standing costs like hangarage/tie-down and insurance, but also (this is vital) includes contributions to what is usually called the "engine fund". For a boat group you could call this the "sinking fund" but I wouldn't advise that. Seriously, the aim is to have money in the kitty for big expenses like planned engine maintenance AND some cash to pay big unexpected bills. Nobody likes receiving a demand for a big payment out of the blue. If I was starting a boat ownership group from scratch I'd want some money in that fund from day one.
5. You must have a written agreement. The Popular Flying Association used to publish a standard draft - perhaps their successors the Light Aircraft Association still do? But don't rely on lawyers to sort out any future problems, they will often make things worse not better. Include a provision for arbitration of any disputes by an experienced independent person with genuine current boating experience, a crystal-clear process for winding up the group including payment of on-going expenses while the boat is on the market, and make the agreement subject to English law.

There's a lot more I could say but this post is already too long. I think there's a lot of scope for shared boat ownership if it's done right. Perhaps the magazine could kick-start this by running an article and starting a classified ads section for boat shares?

I would not worry about this post been too long,. I guess it has a very long way to run yet,. OP first needs to find a likeminded equally decisive partner before the next step can be taken, so watch this space.