thvoyager
Member
Sing Sea Shanties of course!
34ft Minimum, might squeeze into a 33ft... But I want to a liveaboard, I have travelled in a campervan for 1 year (T5.1 LWB) so i think my 33/34 is plenty space!
Tiller Vs Wheel?
- Thread starter thvoyager
- Start date
Sing Sea Shanties of course!
34ft Minimum, might squeeze into a 33ft... But I want to a liveaboard, I have travelled in a campervan for 1 year (T5.1 LWB) so i think my 33/34 is plenty space!
RupertW
Well-known member
I have had the unusual situation for a few years of keeping my small cruising boat with a tiller whilst having a larger boat with a wheel.
The immedate difference is that a tiller is sailing - you are intimately connected to the boat and the sails - and that’s not just because of a size difference in boat. Any wheel will have a little bit of play and delay in comparison and you won’t be able to feel the rudder in its tiny judders and shakes.
So a wheel is more disconnected but in both you can steer from the side and we usually do - upside or downside depending on what sails we are looking at and why. I find it easier to reverse and park with a wheel but its a marginal thing.
The posters who talk about autohelms being better with a below-deck autopilot on wheel boats are completely correct - the difference in power and reliability are huge and if the wheel steering breaks it can steer you instead. But most tillerpilots I’ve had have done the job well too - but it doesn’t feel as built in and bullet proof.
But overall I have no doubt you should get a wheel steered boat, not because it’s better, and certainly not because you will feel more connected - you won’t, but because I think sailing is based around our own fantasy image of ourselves, which is right. One person may think of themselves in duffel coat and Breton cap steering a little wooden ship around dramatic headlands with castles on top, another might imagine holding a huge racing wheel dressed in space-age fabrics and being smashed by waves in the North Atlantic, whilst others imagine wafting along under a big colourful sail under autohelm to the next turquoise anchorage.
The point is that sailing is whatever you want to make of it and when there are two good options go for the one that fulfils you.
The immedate difference is that a tiller is sailing - you are intimately connected to the boat and the sails - and that’s not just because of a size difference in boat. Any wheel will have a little bit of play and delay in comparison and you won’t be able to feel the rudder in its tiny judders and shakes.
So a wheel is more disconnected but in both you can steer from the side and we usually do - upside or downside depending on what sails we are looking at and why. I find it easier to reverse and park with a wheel but its a marginal thing.
The posters who talk about autohelms being better with a below-deck autopilot on wheel boats are completely correct - the difference in power and reliability are huge and if the wheel steering breaks it can steer you instead. But most tillerpilots I’ve had have done the job well too - but it doesn’t feel as built in and bullet proof.
But overall I have no doubt you should get a wheel steered boat, not because it’s better, and certainly not because you will feel more connected - you won’t, but because I think sailing is based around our own fantasy image of ourselves, which is right. One person may think of themselves in duffel coat and Breton cap steering a little wooden ship around dramatic headlands with castles on top, another might imagine holding a huge racing wheel dressed in space-age fabrics and being smashed by waves in the North Atlantic, whilst others imagine wafting along under a big colourful sail under autohelm to the next turquoise anchorage.
The point is that sailing is whatever you want to make of it and when there are two good options go for the one that fulfils you.
lustyd
Well-known member
The problem you'll have is if you want a modern boat they don't generally have tillers as they've been designed for the charter market. In the older market your hand may be forced by availability of reasonable condition boats, so it may not be a choice to be made anyway.
KevinV
Well-known member
Not at all, but that wasn't what I was trying to say - I was just agreeing and illustrating that steering is over-rated as a fun activity when sailing any distance - regardless of whether it's tiller or wheel.
(not my boat btw, and we were on a tight budget. We were fine, just very bored!)
westernman
Well-known member
I have wheel steering (hydraulic) but would prefer tiller.
mrming
Well-known member
Side point, but interior space doesn’t directly correlate to boat length. There are big 32 footers and cramped 36 footers. Best to check out a wide range of boats to understand how the various hull shapes and interior layouts affect the space (and storage space) available.
geem
Well-known member
Well done. I can't imagine steering across the Atlantic.
KompetentKrew
Well-known member
I wouldn't let wheel vs tiller drive the decision at to what boat to buy.
I put offers on a couple of wheel-steered centre cockpit boats, but ended up with an unusual 90's aft cockpit boat with a tiller. (All these around 40' length)
As per other comments, I can singlehand easily with the tiller - the steering position leaves me right next to the jib sheet winches, and I often hook my knee over the tiller at some point during the tack. Maybe I'd be able to singlehand just as easily with a wheel, I don't know, but one thing against the tiller is that it takes up a lot of room in the cookpit - on the other hand, there are other advantages (e.g. using the tiller extension I can helm from under the doghouse).
I'm surprised by this statement:
On the other hand the end of the tiller might, at best, traverse 1m or 1.5m from stop to stop - a wheel of 1m diameter, on the other hand, will traverse 3.14m if it only has only a single turn from stop to stop; likely it will allow 2 or 3 complete turns of steering, so will be 6x or 9x lighter to operate than the tiller.
I put offers on a couple of wheel-steered centre cockpit boats, but ended up with an unusual 90's aft cockpit boat with a tiller. (All these around 40' length)
As per other comments, I can singlehand easily with the tiller - the steering position leaves me right next to the jib sheet winches, and I often hook my knee over the tiller at some point during the tack. Maybe I'd be able to singlehand just as easily with a wheel, I don't know, but one thing against the tiller is that it takes up a lot of room in the cookpit - on the other hand, there are other advantages (e.g. using the tiller extension I can helm from under the doghouse).
I'm surprised by this statement:
The tiller is directly connected to the rudder, whereas there will always be gears or linkages between the wheel and the rudder, and a small amount of play is inevitable.
On the other hand the end of the tiller might, at best, traverse 1m or 1.5m from stop to stop - a wheel of 1m diameter, on the other hand, will traverse 3.14m if it only has only a single turn from stop to stop; likely it will allow 2 or 3 complete turns of steering, so will be 6x or 9x lighter to operate than the tiller.
LONG_KEELER
Well-known member
I prefer a tiller for more feel but enjoy helming with both .
You can get a stiff kneck with a tiller sitting down.
You can get a stiff kneck with a tiller sitting down.
blush2
Active member
Interesting comment. Before Blush we had an X332 we bought to charter. Standard was with a tiller, but there was a wheel option. The charter agent had one wheel version on his books. Don't think anyone was particularly bothered which they had but there was a lot less space in the cockpit of the wheel version.
What was amusing was that the broker failed to tell the people who bought the wheel version that they had chosen the same name as we had. It actually proved a benefit because if charterers wanted two 332s they went for the Dexterities, known as D tiller and D wheel.
geem
Well-known member
I have boat with wheel and not much feel. It's fine as we don't often steer as we tend to sail long distance. I recently crewed a twin wheel 72ft racing boat from Sweden down to Holland (800nm). Feel in the wheel was very good but we hardly ever bothered to steer. I also sailed a friend's Starlight 39 recently with a nice feel to the wheel. We we only going a few miles but we didn't do much steering. If I was racing around the cans then a nice feel to the wheel would be great but passage sailing really doesn't need such a feature
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srm
Well-known member
Its all a big marketing con: "Small boats have tillers, big boats have wheels. My boat has a wheel - I have a big boat!"
On a more serious note, as mentioned above wheel steering involves a train of linkages that involves an up front cost and the needs of checking and maintaining. It is good practice to carry an emergency tiller that can be connected to the rudder shaft and bypass the wheel system should things go wrong. So why bother with a wheel system in the first place? If you are aiming for passage making then a windvane system is much easier to use and more efficient with a tiller, as it avoids the gearing, drag and play of using it via a wheel. Likewise with electric wheel pilots.
On a more serious note, as mentioned above wheel steering involves a train of linkages that involves an up front cost and the needs of checking and maintaining. It is good practice to carry an emergency tiller that can be connected to the rudder shaft and bypass the wheel system should things go wrong. So why bother with a wheel system in the first place? If you are aiming for passage making then a windvane system is much easier to use and more efficient with a tiller, as it avoids the gearing, drag and play of using it via a wheel. Likewise with electric wheel pilots.
geem
Well-known member
We have both wind and powerful below decks autopilot. Both have their place in my opinion. There are times in difficult cross seas when it's easier to use the autopilot. Doing sail changes its autopilot. Under spinnaker it's autopilot steering to wind sensor. When your short of power the wind steering is great to fall back on. When conditions are right the wind steering is excellent
Praxinoscope
Well-known member
A friend has a Sadler 29 with a wheel, sometimes I do feel a bit envious, but then I think of all the additional mechanics involved and the slight lack of response that I seem to feel when steering with a wheel rather than tiller, I forget the envy and will stick to a tiller.
johnalison
Well-known member
I agree that singlehanding is easier with a tiller, especially with new boat with mainsheet brought back along the coachroof. Although my boat is tiller, I have once been out for the day with a sister ship with a wheel, which I found to be surprisingly sensitive but less well suited to the boat. My rudder is balanced and almost always light, making additional help from a wheel unnecessary, and I appreciate the extra sensitivity from the tiller that helps me to balance the sails for comfort and speed, even though I am not normally racing, unless another boat comes into view.
Tranona
Well-known member
There are very few design where there is an option, so once you home in on a particular boat you don't really get a choice. The 33/4' size range in cruisers is where the wheel takes over, because in cruisers it suits the type of sailing buyers do plus it allows large rudders to be handled more easily and in many cases allows a better autopilot. Tillers are really things of the past when design of boats up to about 35' were mostly derived from cruiser racers and were of a shape that suited tiller steering.
In reality you are unlikely to find a boat that meets your requirements that does not have wheel steering.
lustyd
Well-known member
To be fair though, aren't they cruiser/racers? Modern cruisers have even moved the sail controls to get around the other wheel issue that the helm can't reach the ropes easily. This is now leaving a lot of boats hard to sail with crew because you have to be behind the wheel to get to anything!
mrming
Well-known member
It’s not all twin wheels on modern, wide sterned designs. The Pogos, which are cruising boats, have twin tillers all the way up to the Pogo 50.
geem
Well-known member
There are cruising boats and cruising boats. Can't imagine cruising a Pogo. We love our creature comforts too much?
RupertW
Well-known member
I have but not alone - between 4 of us it was fine and actually helped us enjoy the sailing itself much more. But solo or as a couple the autohelm is on from leaving harbour to outside the next one - except for the occasional task.