Tiller Pilots - Which ones to buy?

[Refueler]

I didn't fit mine when I obtained it & left it there for 20 years. I'd put it on at the start of a voyage when I fitted the tiller pilot & take it off at the end when I took the tiller pilot off. There was no build up of moisture or gunk under the cover. And never an incidence of water ingress, unlike your experience.

Tiller pilots are far too stealable to fit & forget.

Dear Angus ...

Please can you stop assuming things and adding to what I post.

Where did I say Fit and Forget ... as in mount Tiller pilot and leave in cockpit ??

If you go back and read ... "tiny bit of moisture found inside was rain based fresh ..." .. and it really was tiny ... I assume it was from the rain - but given the tiny amount and that we had enjoyed a really warm cruise in Swedish Islands before starting journey back to Latvia ... the sudden drop in temp when the thunder storm and rain hit could have caused condensation in the unit .. it may not have been rain. I assume it was as I think anyone would in similar circumstance.

I applaud your perseverance in pushing the cover side of the discussion - but would appreciate if you reduce your own additions to my posts.

 

[Pye_End]

Worth looking at the Raymarine tiller pilots with separate rams.

 

[vyv_cox]

In the baking heat of the med I put a wet towel over mine to keep it cool.

We use our old favourite for many similar jobs - windscreen reflective covers.

 

[Refueler]

As you have discovered there are really only 2 choices - ST 2000 or TP32. The Pelagic and EV 100 are completely different animals and well over twice the price.

The main reason why there is no competition and the designs are old is because demand is small and declining. As suggested by others both can be reliable if looked after (and a vast improvement over your 800). I have just bought an ST 2000, although my boat really needs an EV, but for my type of use I can't justify the cost.

I think this is the best current price hudsonmarine.co.uk/products/raymarine-st2000-plus-cockpit-tiller-autopilot-maximum-displacement-4-500-kg-a12005

I generally agree with T .... the demand today is likely seriously less than it was ~ 30yrs ago ... more boats today have wheels - even on the sort of size boat that would have been Tiller Pilot range before.

I am a bit irked about the "vast improvement over your 800" ..... I know of a number of users with the 800 and 1000 old units that are still giving sterling service... as are mine.

The only real disadvantage is of course the lack of NMEA to allow connection to Chart Plotter. The old Z unit - I had one - was pretty useless and unreliable that converted NMEA to the pulse needed by the AH units.

 

[Telstar26]

One difference between the Simrad's and Raymarine's is the position of the compass. On the Simrads it's at the outboard end by the mounting, the Raymarines have it on the inboard end by the rod.
This can make a difference if, like me the autohelm/tillerpilot is mounted above an outboard motor in a well. The raymarine just had too much magnetic interference to work when motoring; the Simrad is fine.

 

[Refueler]

Some may notice that I have an adaptor white lead connected in the power of my AH unit. This allows me to unplug and connect to a separate battery in case of power failure on board ... in my case I have reasonable capacity SLA's and LiPo's I can use ... it started when I wanted to power on the bench ...

I have such plugs fitted to many of my boat items now and this allows me easy bench testing etc.

 

[Tranona]

I generally agree with T .... the demand today is likely seriously less than it was ~ 30yrs ago ... more boats today have wheels - even on the sort of size boat that would have been Tiller Pilot range before.

I am a bit irked about the "vast improvement over your 800" ..... I know of a number of users with the 800 and 1000 old units that are still giving sterling service... as are mine.

The only real disadvantage is of course the lack of NMEA to allow connection to Chart Plotter. The old Z unit - I had one - was pretty useless and unreliable that converted NMEA to the pulse needed by the AH units.

The OP has a 30' 3.5 tonne boat and the 800 is seriously underpowered. The ST 2000 is within its 4 tonne displacement limit. The NMEA may or may not be an advantage depending on what his other instruments are. Chose my words with care.

 

[Refueler]

The OP has a 30' 3.5 tonne boat and the 800 is seriously underpowered. The ST 2000 is within its 4 tonne displacement limit. The NMEA may or may not be an advantage depending on what his other instruments are. Chose my words with care.

Never mentioned boat size ....

But you do know that the numbering of the old AH units is actually based on the max LOA of the boat ? 800 = 8m ... 1000 = 10m

My boat is 25ft - but a heavy Motor Sailer and she clocks in about 3.9 tons and my 800 steers no problem at all ... I do use the 1000 normally though with the 800 as back-up.
I bought the boat with the 800, the 1000 I had myself as I wanted to fit to previous boat but never did. Brian I know did a lot of Eng Channel sailing with that 800 ...

The numbering system of course stopped when ST series came out - what 2000 and so on is based on ? Maybe its Newtons or something ...

 

[Plum]

Agree with the others that the Raymarine tillerpilot is very durable, providing you make a waterproof jacket for it.

Www.solocoastalsailing.co.uk

Just checked my records. New Raymarine ST2000+ fitted in 2005. Failed due to water ingress after 18 months. Raymarine confirmed water ingress and repaired it, knocking 30% off the bill due to the short life! I then made the cover for it and it is still working.


www.solocoastalsailing.co.uk

 

[AngusMcDoon]

Dear Angus ...

<blather removed>

Bluster and nit-pick away to your heart's content, as is your wont, but you seem to be in a minority of one with your bizarre theory that a cover "increases the risk of moisture damage", and that's having admitted admitted that you have had water ingress that stopped one of your uncovered devices working. Maybe that was a special kind of Gotland rain that doesn't come under the category of 'moisture'.

Anyway, I'll leave it at that. In my opinion and experience a cover prevents damage from water ingress; others may disagree. Wait for incoming...

 

[HughClayton]

My experience is that whilst the Raymarine ST2000 is OK as long as you keep it dry the Raymarine EV100 with a tiller drive is superb. The controller does a great job in learning the characteristics of the boat and the tiller drive is solidly built.

I upgraded from an ST2000 2 years ago and have kept the old unit as a backup but very happy with the upgrade. Just my 2p

 

[DangerousPirate]

Hm okay, guess I'll just buy the ST2000 then. There was not one negative word about it, in here at least. I know for sure that some people are very upset with their tiller pilots due to them being unreliable and failing periodically due to water ingress and shortening, despite covers etc. It's not uncommon to hear "I got the XXX but I also have a back up"

 

[Refueler]

Bluster and nit-pick away to your heart's content, as is your wont, but you seem to be in a minority of one with your bizarre theory that a cover "increases the risk of moisture damage", and that's having admitted admitted that you have had water ingress that stopped one of your uncovered devices working. Maybe that was a special kind of Gotland rain that doesn't come under the category of 'moisture'.

Anyway, I'll leave it at that. In my opinion and experience a cover prevents damage from water ingress; others may disagree. Wait for incoming...

I must apologise .. I was not aware that no-one is allowed to have a different PoV to you. That also English text is foreign to you - could you please advise what language you prefer so you can understand what's posted ?

I am so sorry ...

 

[thinwater]

I've had both--decades on two separate boats--and the only problem I had was that the plugs would get a little loose. If bumped, a momentary power drop would cause them to lose course. The solution was to switch to non-proprietary replacement plugs. No more problems. My current Raymarine is 27 years old, but relatively light use.

(Not my avitar boat. Stiletto 27 and Corsair F-24.)

 

[Refueler]

I've had both--decades on two separate boats--and the only problem I had was that the plugs would get a little loose. If bumped, a momentary power drop would cause them to lose course. The solution was to switch to non-proprietary replacement plugs. No more problems. My current Raymarine is 27 years old, but relatively light use.

(Not my avitar boat. Stiletto 27 and Corsair F-24.)

The power plugs .. same as Aldis Lamp plugs as fitted to the 12v battery box for emergency Aldis Lamp use on older ships .... are awful !!

I have a little trick as the pins get worn and lose contact in the socket. I take a thin dremel disc and cut a slot down each pin pin ... then open out the pin slightly to make it tight fit into socket.

 

[thinwater]

The power plugs .. same as Aldis Lamp plugs as fitted to the 12v battery box for emergency Aldis Lamp use on older ships .... are awful !!

I have a little trick as the pins get worn and lose contact in the socket. I take a thin dremel disc and cut a slot down each pin pin ... then open out the pin slightly to make it tight fit into socket.

Yup, I've done that too.

Waterproof grease really helps. At least once per season. This seems to be the preventative treatment for all on-deck connections. And damp areas below.

 

[onesea]

I did a review of the one I bought PC Nautic:

PC Nautic Teller Pilot Review

Worth considering, Inwould not go back to Raymarine.

 

[zulloboy]

Perhaps the OP could detail the type of sailing he expects these things to assist him with? Years of live-aboard cruising? Trans Atlantic? Coastal cruise? Day trips? Solo or crewed? Makes a difference as to what to decide on.

The boat size rating for these things is a bit useless. A balanced rudder on a well-trimmed boat needs little force on the tiller, whilst another boat of same length and displacement with an old-fashioned "barn-door" rudder and lots of weather helm will require much more tiller force. I experienced this directly on my boat when new sails transformed her from a heavy weather-helm monster to a nicely balanced thing. The major difference in this respect is that the Simrads have end-of-stroke stall protection whilst the Raymarines don't. This is a major issue when your heavy-weather-helm boat needs the tiller hard-over for extended periods and is the number one cause of Raymarine failure other than water ingress.

I have used ST2000's and a TP22 for about 15 years now and have done major repairs on both. My current ST2000+ I fitted with limit switches to avoid the end-stroke problem, and I lavish it with a ziplock bag stuck over it when things get splashy. It has worked perfectly for about 500 hours of sailing/motoring in all weathers.

The debate about covers causing moisture problems relates to entrapped moisture (ie in a partly or completely sealed cover) being drawn in as the device cools down. If the cover allows plenty of air flow, this is not a problem.

Cheers, Graeme

 

[Refueler]

Perhaps the OP could detail the type of sailing he expects these things to assist him with? Years of live-aboard cruising? Trans Atlantic? Coastal cruise? Day trips? Solo or crewed? Makes a difference as to what to decide on.

The boat size rating for these things is a bit useless. A balanced rudder on a well-trimmed boat needs little force on the tiller, whilst another boat of same length and displacement with an old-fashioned "barn-door" rudder and lots of weather helm will require much more tiller force. I experienced this directly on my boat when new sails transformed her from a heavy weather-helm monster to a nicely balanced thing. The major difference in this respect is that the Simrads have end-of-stroke stall protection whilst the Raymarines don't. This is a major issue when your heavy-weather-helm boat needs the tiller hard-over for extended periods and is the number one cause of Raymarine failure other than water ingress.

I have used ST2000's and a TP22 for about 15 years now and have done major repairs on both. My current ST2000+ I fitted with limit switches to avoid the end-stroke problem, and I lavish it with a ziplock bag stuck over it when things get splashy. It has worked perfectly for about 500 hours of sailing/motoring in all weathers.

The debate about covers causing moisture problems relates to entrapped moisture (ie in a partly or completely sealed cover) being drawn in as the device cools down. If the cover allows plenty of air flow, this is not a problem.

Cheers, Graeme

Thank you for that last sentence .... someone who fully understood my point.

The matter of helm force is absolutely true ... mt SR25 has weather helm and it can become a pain. Luckily the boat steers ok on small rudder movements - so it usually is not a problem.

The 'end stop' item ... my AH 800 and 1000 have driven to end stops often - as I use them to go about (pressing both 1 and 10 together) ... and the AH unit has gone over ... and if boat stalls, fails to complete - you hear the AH GRRRRR as its trying to add more helm over and then default to STBY ....
I haven't had mine have 'damage' from this.

My biggest advantage after that of it steering the boat - is the remote ... its wired which many would not like - but being able to stand at the mast while still having full control is worth all that cable !!

 

[thinwater]

... The 'end stop' item ... my AH 800 and 1000 have driven to end stops often - as I use them to go about (pressing both 1 and 10 together) ... and the AH unit has gone over ... and if boat stalls, fails to complete - you hear the AH GRRRRR as its trying to add more helm over and then default to STBY .... I haven't had mine have 'damage' from this....

So what if you shorten the 18-inch dimension? Force will not be an issue for most boats. I've seen installations as short as 13 inches, but their reason was geometry (small boat). You can always adjust the gain and damping defaults.